[Trade] Golden Knights trade Nate Schmidt to Canucks for 2022 3rd-round pick

[5Fivehole0]

9 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I don't get this whole 'not his plan' criticism that I keep hearing on the radio & reading on twitter. That this merely 'fell into his lap' (despite the fact this Schmidt rumour had been out there for awhile, meaning Vegas had been negotiating with teams - likely including us). 

 

OEL wasn't his 'plan' either, that also fell into his lap. At one point the 'plan' was for Markstrom merely as a stopgap for Demko. And for Stecher to be apart of the core. And for Tanev to stick around when everyone wanted him traded in '16, exc, exc. Change is the only constant. And I never remember this criticism when Mike Gillis picked up Ehrhoff. Or when other teams have capitalized on market inefficiencies.

 

The 'plan' changes. Gillis used to always talk about all the different variables - (and around the time of the lockout the 'changing landscape') - that affects trying to acquire players. It's just the way things are. 

 

And who's to say they weren't aware this was possible beforehand? Everyone knew Vegas's situation regarding going after & fitting in Pietrangelo. Benning called every team & said he had laid groundwork prior to the draft. He might've had this on the burner for awhile, which is maybe why he held firm on the offers for OEL & Tanev. That could be possible too.

 

Anyways, there are gripes to have - but this isn't one of them IMO

In retrospect. I am a little disheartend that 4(mid value) ufas walked. The fact that JB got nothing for even Stetchers rights was a tad frustrating

[Pavel the Bure]

This is some quotes from the other side of the deal, enjoy ....

 

"WHAT THE F*CK?"

"There are no words in the dictionary to express how angry I am and how stupid I think Mcrimmon and Mcphee are"

"I just don't understand why you had to trade Schmidt to a division rival for a f***ing 3rd.
Just takes away all the excite for signing Petro."

"Is there something we're missing here?
To me Schmidt was the 2nd best player on your team after Mark Stone and I'm absolutely flabbergasted he was moved ahead of Martinez/Tuch or paying through the teeth to get rid of Fleury. Especially for this return."

"That return, and in the division. Insane."

"One of the worst trades in the last decade or two.
If you were to ask me to make a list of cap casualties, Schmidt wouldn’t have been in the top 5.
To not even pick up one of their top prospects like Lind, Woo, Juolevi, etc. is a travesty."

"None of those are the Canucks top prospects. Their top prospects are Podkolzin and Hoglander. I can tell you Canuck fans are on cloud nine over this trade. None of us would have blinked if Benning included any of this B level prospects you listed."

"On Vancouver board they think this is steal of the century.
Hope McPhee and McCrimmon knew something we don't know about Schmidt. On the surface, we got a minor upgrade in Pietrangelo with the risk of getting stuck with a bad contract in years 5-7.
Should've moved a forward (Patches, Marcchesault or similar) who could be replaced easier. With Schmidt AND Petro, we'd have top-3 defense, top-10 forwards and top-flight goalie."

 

[Patel Bure]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

I believe people are stating he'll either be waived, or at best, 13th F. Not traded.

How much would the Canucks save if Loui got waived?  Furthermore, I’m not sure if anyone would actually be willing to claim him. If teams passed on Tyler Johnson, why would they take Eriksson?  (other than the fact that Eriksson only has two years left on his contract compared to Johnson’s five).

 

The only way I see Eriksson being the 13th forward, is if Ferland returns to the line-up.

 

I think Green loves the

Pearson-Horvat-Eriksson line a little too much.  Having said, Green might elect to have a more offensively skilled RW’er on that line now that we have both Schmidt and Hughes to lead the offensive charge on different pairings.   
 

Maybe Virtanen or MacEwen gets that spot (if MacEwen continues to show improvement).  Ferland could also win that spot if he’s healthy.

 

People night laugh at me for saying this, but I really like Justin Bailey and think he could be a dark horse at camp.  He really impressed me in the short stints and shifts that he has up here.  I’m not sure why Green didn’t play him more.  

[189lb enforcers?]

1 hour ago, VforVirtanen said:

And what is your assessment of his cerebral skills based off of? What expertise are you calling on here that exceeds that of Benning and company?

 

This is what I mean by Mythology. The guy has a great ability to take away the puck, get up ice and score in critical points in the game. How is that not cerebral skills? I mean, he is no Petterson but who is?

I think your logic may suffer from conformation bias fallacy. 
 

Confirmation bias is when you’re selective in constructing your argument by choosing stats/facts which support your claims, but ignore other areas because they don’t. 

 

For example, a guy who pick pockets (take always) opponents for the puck isn’t necessarily a defensive star, unless you chose to view it as such, rather than reconcile why he didn’t have the puck in the first place. Does that mean he’s great at defence or that he chases the puck because he or his line rarely has it? 
 

Same goes with perceiving that players who carry the puck a lot, and who then subsequently have plenty of giveaways, being labelled as turnover machines. 

 

I’d be curious to see a zero biased study of JV’s effectiveness because what I see is the play die either just before or just after he touches it. I’m sure many serious fans see this too, but aren’t savvy enough to bring out a full analysis. It would be cool though. 

 

[Chickenspear]

2 minutes ago, Pavel the Bure said:

This is some quotes from the other side of the deal, enjoy ....

 

"WHAT THE F*CK?"

"There are no words in the dictionary to express how angry I am and how stupid I think Mcrimmon and Mcphee are"

"I just don't understand why you had to trade Schmidt to a division rival for a f***ing 3rd.
Just takes away all the excite for signing Petro."

"Is there something we're missing here?
To me Schmidt was the 2nd best player on your team after Mark Stone and I'm absolutely flabbergasted he was moved ahead of Martinez/Tuch or paying through the teeth to get rid of Fleury. Especially for this return."

"That return, and in the division. Insane."

"One of the worst trades in the last decade or two.
If you were to ask me to make a list of cap casualties, Schmidt wouldn’t have been in the top 5.
To not even pick up one of their top prospects like Lind, Woo, Juolevi, etc. is a travesty."

"None of those are the Canucks top prospects. Their top prospects are Podkolzin and Hoglander. I can tell you Canuck fans are on cloud nine over this trade. None of us would have blinked if Benning included any of this B level prospects you listed."

"On Vancouver board they think this is steal of the century.
Hope McPhee and McCrimmon knew something we don't know about Schmidt. On the surface, we got a minor upgrade in Pietrangelo with the risk of getting stuck with a bad contract in years 5-7.
Should've moved a forward (Patches, Marcchesault or similar) who could be replaced easier. With Schmidt AND Petro, we'd have top-3 defense, top-10 forwards and top-flight goalie."

 

I'm loving it

[Patel Bure]

1 minute ago, Pavel the Bure said:

This is some quotes from the other side of the deal, enjoy ....

 

"WHAT THE F*CK?"

"There are no words in the dictionary to express how angry I am and how stupid I think Mcrimmon and Mcphee are"

"I just don't understand why you had to trade Schmidt to a division rival for a f***ing 3rd.
Just takes away all the excite for signing Petro."

"Is there something we're missing here?
To me Schmidt was the 2nd best player on your team after Mark Stone and I'm absolutely flabbergasted he was moved ahead of Martinez/Tuch or paying through the teeth to get rid of Fleury. Especially for this return."

"That return, and in the division. Insane."

"One of the worst trades in the last decade or two.
If you were to ask me to make a list of cap casualties, Schmidt wouldn’t have been in the top 5.
To not even pick up one of their top prospects like Lind, Woo, Juolevi, etc. is a travesty."

"None of those are the Canucks top prospects. Their top prospects are Podkolzin and Hoglander. I can tell you Canuck fans are on cloud nine over this trade. None of us would have blinked if Benning included any of this B level prospects you listed."

"On Vancouver board they think this is steal of the century.
Hope McPhee and McCrimmon knew something we don't know about Schmidt. On the surface, we got a minor upgrade in Pietrangelo with the risk of getting stuck with a bad contract in years 5-7.
Should've moved a forward (Patches, Marcchesault or similar) who could be replaced easier. With Schmidt AND Petro, we'd have top-3 defense, top-10 forwards and top-flight goalie."

 

Honestly,

 

As much as I love this trade for us, Vegas’ GM should be fired for making that deal.  I get the fact that Vegas was in a very tough spot once they signed AP, but that could have and should have been planned much better.

 

I’m not exaggerating when I say that this was one of the most lobisded deals in NHL history.  Glad that we were the beneficiaries.

[DeNiro]

Hard to argue with those points.

 

Could you imagine if they had Pietrangelo and Schmidt? They’d be scary good on the back end.

 

I would think they could have got a decent return for Marchassault or Tuch and replaced them much easier. I thought Marchassault was kind of a waste of time in the playoffs.

[Where's Wellwood]

Just now, DeNiro said:

Hard to argue with those points.

 

Could you imagine if they had Pietrangelo and Schmidt? They’d be scary good on the back end.

 

I would think they could have got a decent return for Marchassault or Tuch and replaced them much easier. I thought Marchassault was kind of a waste of time in the playoffs.

This will never leave him and i love it. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

Benning gets all the credit in the world for both executing this trade and walking away from deals/signings that some fans wanted him to make that would have tied up the cap.

 

But if anyone is thinking this was all a part of his master plan, well I don't know what to say; it was widely reported that he tried to sign Markstrom, Tanev, Toffoli and Barrie, any of these probably wouldn't have made this trade possible.

 

But, good on him for making things work in the end. Out of all the players mentioned that we were in on, Schmidt is the best out of all of them, at least when it comes to the skaters.

Problem with your statement is it took gigantic balls to walk away from OEL, not qualify Stetcher and not give in to Tabev’s ask.   Have and will keep saying, this was more or less exactly what I was hoping JB would pull off - and he did.  So maybe it was part of his “master plan”.   Was hoping he’d weaponize his cap space next year by letting all three walk.  He’d exceeded my expectations.  Not that I trust him completely because I don’t.    At some point I might move from “the accidental rebuild” into the camp that feels JB can do no wrong - this was a big step towards that.  

[TheCammer]

5 minutes ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

In retrospect. I am a little disheartend that 4(mid value) ufas walked. The fact that JB got nothing for even Stetchers rights was a tad frustrating

What exactly do you think the trade value is for the rights to a 5-6  RFA defenseman? Markstrom's term is too high as is the $6M per. Tanev continues to be injury prone (and a warrior I think we will miss)

 

Would you like us to be in the same cap predicament when we need to sign Elias and Quinn. 

 

People had to go. How exactly should they have prepared for a pandemic that flattened the cap? The landscape would have been a little different. More flexibility

 

We literally just stole Nate Schmidt. Let them continue to work things and see what transpires before next season.

 

[IBatch]

10 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

Honestly,

 

As much as I love this trade for us, Vegas’ GM should be fired for making that deal.  I get the fact that Vegas was in a very tough spot once they signed AP, but that could have and should have been planned much better.

 

I’m not exaggerating when I say that this was one of the most lobisded deals in NHL history.  Glad that we were the beneficiaries.

Can’t be fired for getting a 3rd - somehow getting a 4th for dumping Stastny (who’s a good player no doubt), and losing Schmidt but adding Lehner and AP.   He’s just as much a miracle worker as JB is so far. 

Edited October 13, 2020 by IBatch

[PhillipBlunt]

13 minutes ago, Pavel the Bure said:

This is some quotes from the other side of the deal, enjoy ....

 

"WHAT THE F*CK?"

"There are no words in the dictionary to express how angry I am and how stupid I think Mcrimmon and Mcphee are"

"I just don't understand why you had to trade Schmidt to a division rival for a f***ing 3rd.
Just takes away all the excite for signing Petro."

"Is there something we're missing here?
To me Schmidt was the 2nd best player on your team after Mark Stone and I'm absolutely flabbergasted he was moved ahead of Martinez/Tuch or paying through the teeth to get rid of Fleury. Especially for this return."

"That return, and in the division. Insane."

"One of the worst trades in the last decade or two.
If you were to ask me to make a list of cap casualties, Schmidt wouldn’t have been in the top 5.
To not even pick up one of their top prospects like Lind, Woo, Juolevi, etc. is a travesty."

"None of those are the Canucks top prospects. Their top prospects are Podkolzin and Hoglander. I can tell you Canuck fans are on cloud nine over this trade. None of us would have blinked if Benning included any of this B level prospects you listed."

"On Vancouver board they think this is steal of the century.
Hope McPhee and McCrimmon knew something we don't know about Schmidt. On the surface, we got a minor upgrade in Pietrangelo with the risk of getting stuck with a bad contract in years 5-7.
Should've moved a forward (Patches, Marcchesault or similar) who could be replaced easier. With Schmidt AND Petro, we'd have top-3 defense, top-10 forwards and top-flight goalie."

 

Appreciate your compilation of these quotes. Thank you.

[TheCammer]

8 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

Honestly,

 

As much as I love this trade for us, Vegas’ GM should be fired for making that deal.  I get the fact that Vegas was in a very tough spot once they signed AP, but that could have and should have been planned much better.

 

I’m not exaggerating when I say that this was one of the most lobisded deals in NHL history.  Glad that we were the beneficiaries.

Why would the Vegas management be fired? They did plan for it. The plan was to move Schmidt and Fleury to make money for Pieterangelo because they felt they needed that elite D-man. They have arguably improved their team. 

Keep in mind they only had 24 hours to move enough money to stay cap compliant. Look at it another way and they just got Pieterangelo and a 3rd for Nate Schmidt

[189lb enforcers?]

57 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Second most time on ice in both playoffs and regular season next to Theodore.

 

Highest Quality of competition all season long.

 

Second on the team in points in the regular season and playoffs.

 

 

 

Those are all positives, and thanks, but what about the negatives? I’ve seen little to no posts on anything negative about his game, only about his contract, and even then nobody is that upset. 

 

Why haven’t you found/posted any negative stats? 
 

Don’t answer that, it’s probably just an observation of another possible confirmation bias fallacy in here, and that’s ok. It’s a fan forum, after all. 

 

Until I/we see anything negative about his play, a casual reader might assume he is the NHL’s best Dman, for cheap!  
 

“He does everything well, a bonafide #2 who can fight, score, special teams hero, carry the puck, stalwart D for the toughest of matchups... wow, this guy is AP-light on a better contract. No wonder JB is being heralded as a master in here.” 
-CDC today. 

 
 

I’m not expecting ‘balanced’ hockey talk in a Canucks forum, but a little bit would be cool. 

[DeNiro]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Can’t be fired for getting a 3rd - somehow getting a 4th for dumping Stastny (who’s a good player no doubt), and losing Schmidt but adding Lehner and AP.   He’s just as much a miracle worker as JB is so far. 

Their D got better no doubt but I thought their D was already good enough. They stifled most teams they played.

 

I think their offense really let them down. So taking away Statsny and probably another forward is not exactly gonna help.

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, DeNiro said:

Their D got better no doubt but I thought their D was already good enough. They stifled most teams they played.

 

I think their offense really let them down. So taking away Statsny and probably another forward is not exactly gonna help.

Who are their #1 and #2 centers as of right now?

[Odjick29willkillyou]

3 hours ago, Devron44 said:

Myers is Canadian just born in Texas 

Which makes him a Texan 

[189lb enforcers?]

9 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Problem with your statement is it took gigantic balls to walk away from OEL, not qualify Stetcher and not give in to Tabev’s ask.   Have and will keep saying, this was more or less exactly what I was hoping JB would pull off - and he did.  So maybe it was part of his “master plan”.   Was hoping he’d weaponize his cap space next year by letting all three walk.  He’d exceeded my expectations.  Not that I trust him completely because I don’t.    At some point I might move from “the accidental rebuild” into the camp that feels JB can do no wrong - this was a big step towards that.  

We will be there together, pom poms and all. 

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Who are their #1 and #2 centers as of right now?

I guess it would be Karlsson and either Glass or Marchassault (who I think can play center).

 

Definitely lacking the number 1 center you typically see on cup winners.

[IBatch]

18 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

Honestly,

 

As much as I love this trade for us, Vegas’ GM should be fired for making that deal.  I get the fact that Vegas was in a very tough spot once they signed AP, but that could have and should have been planned much better.

 

I’m not exaggerating when I say that this was one of the most lobisded deals in NHL history.  Glad that we were the beneficiaries.

Nope.  Stajonov for Naslund is way better, he had more first team all-star selections then the other had goals (a club record to this date).    Not to mention Dryden.   This deal won’t even make the top 20 when it’s all said and done.   But it could make an honourable mention with a Covid asterisk - hoping that’s the case.