Coronavirus outbreak

[Gurn]

6 minutes ago, Logitek said:

The vaccinated are just as capable of spreading COVID and infecting others as the unvaccinated are. 

Here we go again with the "just as capable of spreading"

So I'll as you, as a different poster than the last time this was brought up, do you have a link to a credible site; stating vaccinated people spread covid at the same rate as the unvaccinated.?

[luckylager]

If people refuse the vaccine, it should be treated as waiving your charter right to healthcare, permanently.

[coho8888]

1 minute ago, Logitek said:

So all the data coming out showing vaccinated also carry COVID with less symptoms and spread it doesn’t make you want to get the hell away from the vaxxed?

 

You’re at the same risk either way. 
 

This virus isn’t leaving society.

Vaxxed are less likely to spread it.  The end game is get Covid to the point where it becomes endemic.  Where the chances of any Vaxxed person getting infected and spreading it is extremely small.  But that won't happen if there is still a large segment that remain unvaxxed.  New variants pop up.  Both vaxxed and unvaxxed would still be spreading it.  Your solution of "letting people make their own choice" will keep prolonging this. 

[EOTM]

21 minutes ago, Logitek said:

Dr. Robert Malone. 
 

If he took the vaccine I’d love to see a source on that. 

Here you go...also playing a little fast and lose with the term inventor but they cover that here too.

https://www.logically.ai/articles/scientists-vs-science-interviews-with-mike-yeadon-and-robert-malone

 

[Tortorella's Rant]

 

[coho8888]

3 minutes ago, Logitek said:

 

More:

 

The document -- a slide presentation -- outlines unpublished data that shows fully vaccinated people might spread the Delta variant at the same rate as unvaccinated people.

CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky confirmed the authenticity of the document, which was first reported by The Washington Post.

"I think people need to understand that we're not crying wolf here. This is serious," she told CNN.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/29/politics/cdc-masks-covid-19-infections/index.html

"And if vaccinated people get infected anyway, they have as much virus in their bodies as unvaccinated people. That means they're as likely to infect someone else as unvaccinated people who get infected."

 

but in the same article:

 

"It says vaccines reduce the risk of severe disease or death 10-fold and reduce the risk of infection three-fold."

 

So if the risk of infection in a vaccinated person is reduced by Three fold, doesn't it mean that the vaccinated are less likely to be infected and then infect others?  

 

So what exactly is the issue here?

 

So the conclusion is, in General, the Vaxxed are less likely to spread Covid because they are less likely to get infected in the first place.

 

 

 

 

[Gurn]

32 minutes ago, Logitek said:

 

The new data says that a fully vaccinated person who experiences a breakthrough infection can spread the virus just as much as an unvaccinated person. 
 

 

 

This doesn't say vaccinated people' but rather "vaccinated people, who have had a breakthrough infection"

Are those not 2 different classifications of people?

[EOTM]

8 minutes ago, Logitek said:

Nice that’s definitely interesting and good to know. Doesn’t mean it won’t lead to increased virulence and the need to continually update the vaccines to fight mutations.
 

There seem to be some issues with that article and Malone saying things have been misrepresented. At this point I will believe he is vaccinated and will do some additional reading later to find another source. If I don’t address it again, than my belief he is vaccinated holds true. If I find something where he states otherwise (at a date later than this articles publication) I’ll post it. Thanks! I couldn’t find anything on his vaccination status. 
 

Again, I have no issues with the vaccine itself and encouraged both of my parents to get it, which they did. 

Yeah no problem and you can certainly find more sources regarding him getting vaccinated. While I don't take you as a mindless anti vaxxer I will say that you're right it doesn't mean that it won't lead to that but there is nothing to actually say that it will. It's kind of the chicken little argument.

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, gurn said:

This doesn't say vaccinated people' but rather "vaccinated people, who have had a breakthrough infection"

Are those not 2 different classifications of people?

Yup.  It’s a shame the antivaxxer, maskchinian, and Covid is a hoax crowd are so easily duped by a headline.  

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, gurn said:

This doesn't say vaccinated people' but rather "vaccinated people, who have had a breakthrough infection"

Are those not 2 different classifications of people?

Yep.  Specifically, one is a subset of the other.  These people arguing against the vaccine really need to take a basis statistics course.

[EOTM]

39 minutes ago, Logitek said:

So all the data coming out showing vaccinated also carry COVID with less symptoms and spread it doesn’t make you want to get the hell away from the vaxxed?

 

You’re at the same risk either way. 
 

This virus isn’t leaving society.

I think I've asked this before and this is for sure a leading question I'm going to ask.

 

How do you think the virus spread and what do you think the vaccine does for fully vaccinated people?

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Logitek said:

Vaccines will lead to ADE and continual mutation of strains.
 

In our NIH meeting this morning, it was the first time that ADE was brought up and discussed openly as a concern along with discussions on mutations due to the vaccines. Now that it’s being discussed in the scientific community as a valid possibility that is happening, it’s a matter of time before it hits the news cycle. The caveat being that on the call, there was no definitive conclusion yet but we’re starting to evaluate it now and collect data. 

No these vaccines will not.  That’s not at all the science.  Those who don’t get vaccinated become are Petri dishes for mutation.  

[EOTM]

1 minute ago, Logitek said:

The vaccine provides you with a significant chance of having mild symptoms if you are infected with COVID however as the virus mutates, along with the effectiveness of the vaccine decreasing (can provide data if you’d like, which is coming out of Israel now), continual boosters will be needed to protect against the more virulent strains and boost protection.  
 

In terms of spread, it’s typical of a virus in that it’s largely aerosol droplets and some risk of surface contact infection. 

Ok so then if vaccinated people have less symptoms which include expelling droplets and such then are you still going to stand by the opinion that vaccinated people are just as likely to spread the virus?

 

Israel is a popular go to for this narrative but once you dig a little deeper into their vaccination process (very quick and without enough time between does) you see that the problems there might have more to do with that.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Logitek said:

The vaccine provides you with a significant chance of having mild symptoms if you are infected with COVID however as the virus mutates, along with the effectiveness of the vaccine decreasing (can provide data if you’d like, which is coming out of Israel now), continual boosters will be needed to protect against the more virulent strains and boost protection.  
 

In terms of spread, it’s typical of a virus in that it’s largely aerosol droplets and some risk of surface contact infection. 

This is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated.  Thank goodness Quebec in implement vaccine passports, and soon the other provinces will follow.  The antivaxxer people will be faced with many restriction, while those of us who are vaccinated will enjoy the fullness of society.  

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Logitek said:

I am much more qualified than you to speak on this sorry to say so you can’t just sit there and tell me that’s not a possibility when it is actively being discussed in the scientific community including on a call with NIH today and other scientists who were invited to the call. 
 

Interestingly enough Dr. Malone was on the call but I didn’t have an opportunity to directly ask him his vaccination status however NIH wanted to get his opinion and others based on emerging data we are seeing. Some published, most not at this time. 

And I have a spaceship.   Get vaccinated

[EOTM]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

This is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated.  Thank goodness Quebec in implement vaccine passports, and soon the other provinces will follow.  The antivaxxer people will be faced with many restriction, while those of us who are vaccinated will enjoy the fullness of society.  

I mean isn't the whole argument silly.

 

Like yes of course vaccinated people can get covid and spread it but then if everybody was vaccinated that wouldn't really matter anymore would it?

 

If passports are what it takes as much as I don't like the idea that it has to come to that I want to go back to do the things I used to do without restrictions.

[bishopshodan]

We live in a democracy, which means the will of the majority will be imposed.

The vocal minority will have to deal with the restrictions put in place whether it be vax passes or not being allowed in a CFL game etc..

 

You have never lived in freedom. We live in a society that has to look out for the greater good for all. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by bishopshodan

[EOTM]

1 minute ago, Logitek said:

Yes because despite having less symptoms, we’ve seen that viral load is the same in vaccinated and therefore aerosol spread is similar. The reduced symptoms in vaccinated doesn’t have an impact on the virulence of the infection they are carrying. 

The viral load in a droplet is the same but the amount of droplets are less.

 

It's like saying if we took half the cars off the road there would still be accidents just not as many. 

[EOTM]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And I have a spaceship.   Get vaccinated

Take me to Melmac.

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, EOTM said:

I mean isn't the whole argument silly.

 

Like yes of course vaccinated people can get covid and spread it but then if everybody was vaccinated that wouldn't really matter anymore would it?

 

If passports are what it takes as much as I don't like the idea that it has to come to that I want to go back to do the things I used to do without restrictions.

Exactly!  It’s the ‘speed bump’ rule.  We only have speed bumps because 10% of drivers go way too fast in some places, like school zones.  If we all drove safely in school zones there wouldn’t be any need for speed bumps.  Just like if we all got vaccinated there wouldn’t be any need for Covid passports.