Coronavirus outbreak

[King Heffy]

44 minutes ago, stawns said:

No room for discussion?  I asked you what you were advocating for, as it's clear what you're advocating against.  I'd just like to hear what you think the strategy is for managing this viris, if not vaxx and restrictions?

 

I'm not sure how that isn't facilitating a discussion.  I was asking genuinely.

Exactly.  Come with solutions, not problems.

[4petesake]

5 hours ago, gurn said:

Strange world.

Some people look at that pool with  a shark in it and say, we are going swimming in that tank, after all there is only one shark and there are 100 of us so, I'll be just fine.

So 2 people are outright killed by the shark, and between 8-10 more people come out of the pool missing an arm, leg or something more important.

Sound nutty to me, but hey people have rights.

 

However when some of those 100 people, minus the two dead swimmers, and 8-10 injured people want to drag that shark pool everywhere they go, and try to push everyone else into the pool, I draw my line in the concrete.

 

Screw you, I'm not going swimming, keep that damn pool in your own backyard.

Some people only learn the hard way but then it’s sometimes too late.

 

 

 

 

[Kurgom]

1 minute ago, Logitek said:

"Chickens vaccinated against Marek’s disease rarely get sick. But the vaccine does not prevent them from spreading Marek’s to unvaccinated birds. 

In fact, rather than stop fowl from spreading the virus, the vaccine allows the disease to spread faster and longer than it normally would, a new study finds. The scientists now believe that this vaccine has helped this chicken virus become uniquely virulent.

 

Come on bro, read your own stuff.

[CBH1926]

People will die due to complications or adverse side effects from the vaccines.

Some will have temporary or permanent side effects, also no one knows what the long term side effects might be.

 

We also all eat food but every year many people die from salmonella, botulism, E. coli, listeria etc.

Planes are safest mode of transportation but they still crash and kill people.

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by CBH1926

[Kurgom]

7 minutes ago, Logitek said:

Not sure what you’re getting at. 

 

The COVID vaccine doesn’t prevent it being spread from vaccinated to unvaccinated either. That’s a well known fact. 

You said "Are you entirely confident that the vaccines are not the cause of the mutations? That was what was initially predicted to occur by none other than the creator of mRNA vaccines."

 

Then you bring up an article that talks about unvaccinated chickens dying in 10 days because of a disease that's been vaccinated against for over 50 years now. Totally comparable to COVID. And in that very article.

 

"However, in the end, Read said, leakiness isn’t a strike against these vaccines, but more motivation to conduct surveillance of their effects after they exit clinical trials and enter the broader population. Take Marek’s disease for example.

“Even if this evolution happens, you don’t want to be an unvaccinated chicken,” Read said. “Food chain security and everything rests on vaccines. They are the most successful and cheapest public health interventions that we’ve ever had. We just need to consider the evolutionary consequences of these ones with leaky transmission.”"

 

Again, you are half-assing it and looking for things to reinforce your way of thinking. That's not logic, that's not science.

 

Reality is we have variants emerging from poor countries or countries that didn't have mass vaccination. Where is the Isreal variant? The iceland variant? If how "leaky" mRNA vaccines are was an issue for the immediate future (10 years or so, lets say) you'd have some sort of variant emerging from these highly vaccinated areas.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Kurgom

[JM_]

For god's sake, won't someone think of the chickens!!! 

[4petesake]

7 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

For god's sake, won't someone think of the chickens!!! 

He’s back, he’s pissed, and he has droogs.

 

 

[Kurgom]

9 minutes ago, Logitek said:

Correct. I asked if you are confident the vaccines aren’t causing the increasingly virulent strains we are seeing and then posted a peer reviewed and 100% accepted fact that the Mareks vaccine did the same thing. 
 

Reading comprehension must not be your strongest suit. 
 

I never said unvaccinated aren’t at risk. I effectively said are you certain the vaccines are not making this problem worse by creating the more virulent strains, in different words. 

This is ironic because you don't understand what the Marek's vaccine study showed. A more virulent strain that would have died out (because all the infected die) developed (not from the vaccine, nowhere does it say the strain evolved because of the vaccine) and spread through vaccinated chickens infecting the unvaccinated, killing them.

 

This is what happens when science is twisted by people with agendas. Vaccines don't cause variants. Vaccines don't help COVID mutate. Vaccines WILL protect you against a hypothetical super killer COVID strain, and you might give it to an unvaccinated person killing them.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Kurgom

[Kurgom]

11 minutes ago, Logitek said:

“Vaccines that let the hosts survive but do not prevent the spread of the pathogen relax this selection, allowing the evolution of hotter pathogens to occur. This type of vaccine is often called a leaky vaccine. When vaccines prevent transmission, as is the case for nearly all vaccines used in humans, this type of evolution towards increased virulence is blocked. But when vaccines leak, allowing at least some pathogen transmission, they could create the ecological conditions that would allow hot strains to emerge and persist. This theory proved highly controversial when it was first proposed over a decade ago, but here we report experiments with Marek’s disease virus in poultry that show that modern commercial leaky vaccines can have precisely this effect: they allow the onward transmission of strains otherwise too lethal to persist. Thus, the use of leaky vaccines can facilitate the evolution of pathogen strains that put unvaccinated hosts at greater risk of severe disease.“

 

You don't understand this passage at all. Try putting the bold parts with the scary leaky vaccine sentences.

 

Remember, the overall chicken mortality rate would be higher from this disease without vaccines.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Kurgom

[Kurgom]

1 minute ago, Logitek said:

Are you missing the part about the creation and evolution of the virus prior to the onward transmission or something or is that just not in your narrative so you’re selectively ignoring it. 

"Our data do not demonstrate that vaccination was responsible for the evolution of hyperpathogenic strains of MDV, and we may never know for sure why they evolved in the first place. Clearly, many potentially relevant ecological pressures on virulence have changed with the intensification of the poultry industry. For instance, as the industry has expanded, broilers have become a much larger part of the industry, and broiler lifespans have halved with advances in animal genetics and husbandry; all else being equal, this would favour more virulent strains [28], so too might greater genetic homogeneity in flocks [38] or high-density rearing conditions [13], or indeed increased frequencies of maternally derived antibody if natural MDV infections became more common as the industry intensified in the pre-vaccine era (Fig 3) [39]. But whatever was responsible for the evolution of more virulent strains in the first place (and there may be many causes), our data show that vaccination is sufficient to maintain hyperpathogenic strains in poultry flocks today. By keeping infected birds alive, vaccination substantially enhances the transmission success and hence spread of virus strains too lethal to persist in unvaccinated populations, which would therefore have been removed by natural selection in the pre-vaccine era."

[stawns]

54 minutes ago, Logitek said:

Correct. I asked if you are confident the vaccines aren’t causing the increasingly virulent strains we are seeing and then posted a peer reviewed and 100% accepted fact that the Mareks vaccine did the same thing. 
 

Reading comprehension must not be your strongest suit. 
 

I never said unvaccinated aren’t at risk. I effectively said are you certain the vaccines are not making this problem worse by creating the more virulent strains, in different words. 

How could the vaccines cause mutations?

[Gurn]

Simple question:

Given the first person, other than clinical trials got a vaccine on 2020-12-08,

 

 https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=first+person+in+world+vaccinated+against+covid&docid=608009679517921206&mid=FB28A3A10121D84E96BBFB28A3A10121D84E96BB&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

 

and the first in Canada was on 2020-12-14 https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/gisele-levesque-the-first-person-in-canada-to-be-vaccinated-against-covid-19-has-died-1.5496112

 

on what dates where variants of concern noted, and from what countries?

 

 

 

[Smashian Kassian]

Still early but this is an interesting development. Bonnie doesn't seem to be concerned regarding vax-resistance which is good news. 

 

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/covid-19-health-officials-in-b-c-keeping-an-eye-on-new-lambda-variant

Quote

COVID-19: Health officials in B.C. keeping an eye on new lambda variant

One case of the variant has been found in B.C. Preliminary research suggests it is somewhat resistant to vaccine-induced antibodies

 

At least one case of a new COVID-19 variant called lambda has been identified in B.C., according to the B.C. Centre for Disease Control.

 

Preliminary research released last week, which hasn’t yet been reviewed by independent scientists, suggests lambda is highly infectious and may be somewhat resistant to current vaccines.

 

Still, the variant, which was first detected in Peru, is considered only a variant of interest so far, not a more-dangerous variant of concern. The World Health Organization determines whether a variant is of interest or concern.

Japanese researchers say lambda, now spreading in South America, has three mutations in the SARS-CoV-2 virus’s spike protein that helps it resist neutralization by vaccine-induced antibodies. Two additional mutations help make lambda highly infectious, they said.

British Columbians need to keep following guidelines and get vaccinated, Dr. Bonnie Henry said.

 

“Most viruses of concern — and it’s not been labelled that yet, it’s a virus of interest — are ones that transmit more easily between people,” she said. “Yes, we are watching it … but we know the same measures apply.”

She presented data last week showing most people who are now get COVID-19 — primarily the delta variant now in B.C. — have not been immunized.

“When you think about the people who are in hospital, the people in ICU, the vast majority of them … less than four per cent of the cases that we’ve had in the past two months have been in people who’ve been vaccinated.

“We know vaccines work, they protect people and that’s what we need to focus on right now.”

In other words, the measures that have worked against previous variants of the virus are the best measures to employ against lambda, Henry said.

 

“We know the same measures that we take to prevent transmission work against all of the variants, including delta, which is the one we’re seeing circulating frequently right now, and we’re seeing a lot of the gamma, as well, a little bit of alpha and a smattering of a number of others.

“But the measures are the same: It’s keeping sick people away from well people so it can’t be transmitted, and it’s all of us being protected from the virus by being immunized.”

The Japanese research paper is just one study and still needs to be peer-reviewed, cautioned Dr. Anthony Chow, professor emeritus of infectious diseases at UBC’s department of medicine.

“There is a lot of interest and a lot of concern about this variant,” Chow said. “There is one report that this variant might escape certain neutralizing antibodies.”

 

Other studies, however, show approved vaccines are at least partly effective even if new variants are somewhat more resistant to antibodies, he said, adding the vaccines we have are still the most effective way to fight the spread of COVID-19.

“We need to get people vaccinated,” Chow said. “My big concern is that there is still a fairly large percentage” of unvaccinated people “We don’t want (variants) to become dominant because once they start to transmit, that gives them opportunities for further mutations.

“There is a need for vaccination because all the new cases are primarily those who are not vaccinated. People need to get over the misinformation about vaccines.”

 

Also anyone heard about Delta-plus & the differences from regular delta? (from a public safety POV)

 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Smashian Kassian
Forgot link

[thedestroyerofworlds]

28 minutes ago, gurn said:

Simple question:

Given the first person, other than clinical trials got a vaccine on 2020-12-08,

 

 https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=first+person+in+world+vaccinated+against+covid&docid=608009679517921206&mid=FB28A3A10121D84E96BBFB28A3A10121D84E96BB&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

 

and the first in Canada was on 2020-12-14 https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/gisele-levesque-the-first-person-in-canada-to-be-vaccinated-against-covid-19-has-died-1.5496112

 

on what dates where variants of concern noted, and from what countries?

 

 

 

The delta variant was first detected last December in India.  So it came about prior to mass vaccination.  Check mate.

 

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/5-things-to-know-delta-variant-covid

[Smashian Kassian]

4 hours ago, stawns said:

No room for discussion?  I asked you what you were advocating for, as it's clear what you're advocating against.  I'd just like to hear what you think the strategy is for managing this viris, if not vaxx and restrictions?

 

I'm not sure how that isn't facilitating a discussion.  I was asking genuinely.

 

I'm wondering if these variants/mutations will just keep coming and they'll become less deadly (hopefully... maybe with the vaccines help) then we'll just have to decide over time when we'll move back to normal.

 

Obviously I could be completely wrong, but it doesn't feel like there's an end in sight as more variants are being discovered.

[stawns]

21 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I'm wondering if these variants/mutations will just keep coming and they'll become less deadly (hopefully... maybe with the vaccines help) then we'll just have to decide over time when we'll move back to normal.

 

Obviously I could be completely wrong, but it doesn't feel like there's an end in sight as more variants are being discovered.

I think that's the hope isnt it?  However, if we behave like the pandemic is over, I fear that we'll giving it a lot of hosts and more chances to mutate.  Eventually our luck will run and one of these variants is going to be lethal.

[Kurgom]

 

deja vu

the CCPs control of the situation could be commendable if they were forthcoming with the real numbers to help the world fight the disease.

[Ilunga]

10 hours ago, gurn said:

Simple question:

Given the first person, other than clinical trials got a vaccine on 2020-12-08,

 

 https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=first+person+in+world+vaccinated+against+covid&docid=608009679517921206&mid=FB28A3A10121D84E96BBFB28A3A10121D84E96BB&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

 

and the first in Canada was on 2020-12-14 https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/gisele-levesque-the-first-person-in-canada-to-be-vaccinated-against-covid-19-has-died-1.5496112

 

on what dates where variants of concern noted, and from what countries?

 

 

 

This article provides some info on the variants and the places they were detected.

 

 

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/a-new-strain-of-coronavirus-what-you-should-know

 

 

[stawns]

12 hours ago, Logitek said:

Not sure what you’re getting at. 

 

The COVID vaccine doesn’t prevent it being spread from vaccinated to unvaccinated either. That’s a well known fact. 

They can, that's true.  However, that's among breakthrough cases of infection, which is uncommon.  The overwhelming majority of new cases are in unvaxxed people, so let's not paint a picture where vaxxed and unvaxxed people are spreading the virus equally because that simply is t true.

 

https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/new-data-on-covid-19-transmission-by-vaccinated-individuals.html

[BPA]

The notion of vaccines causing mutations of Covid-19 is ridiculous. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/variant.html

 

Read the link.  Variants of Covid-19 were already out there prior to vaccines even being developed. 

 

Unless you believe in Government worldwide conspiracies.