Coronavirus outbreak

[The Lock]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

I Will say, I am enjoying the irony of the "it's only those that are at risk who should be locked down" freaking out over being locked down because they are the ones most at risk

Like, I guess my opinion is the mandates are good. If you have a reason not to take the vaccine so be it. It just means you can't do things that other people can.

 

No matter what, there's going to be a small part of the population that's going to suffer. It sucks, but in order for things to happen, it has to happen.

[King Heffy]

13 minutes ago, The Lock said:

There's not going to be a source on that realistically. They both died within 2 weeks of getting the vaccine and not from covid. That's what I know.

 

You have to admit, no matter if it was the vaccine or not, it's pretty suspicious at that point. Imagine you're finding out about this and told to take the vaccine.

 

I know you're now going to turn around and say "oh no source, didn't happen". It's what you do to dismiss anything against what you believe, but put yourself in his shoes for one minute without the idealisms.

Correlation does not equal causation.

[The Lock]

9 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Correlation does not equal causation.

No, but there's the possibility and if you're seeing this as a blood relative, put yourself in his shoes.

 

This isn't an absolute causation, but it a isn't a non-factor either. There have been deaths reported in the world from the vaccine afterall. It's extremely rare and in most cases ignorable, but if we're talking blood relatives dying.... that's rather scary.

Edited December 14, 2021 by The Lock

[Wolfgang Durst]

24 minutes ago, stawns said:

I don't think people should be forced, no.  But I do think the mandate needs to be far more restrictive, that's for sure.

the user @Boudriaswrote it in another thread: he was at the post office and two women came in at different times without wearing masks and they got served. That's something that it's impossible in Germany. Wearing masks in shops, post offices, restaurants, bank offices ...  is mandatory. There are signs at the entrance saying "no masks - no service- no discussion". That sounds harsh but it is effective. That's one of the measures necessary to contain this pandemic.

[The Lock]

7 minutes ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

the user @Boudriaswrote it in another thread: he was at the post office and two women came in at different times without wearing masks and they got served. That's something that it's impossible in Germany. Wearing masks in shops, post offices, restaurants, bank offices ...  is mandatory. There are signs at the entrance saying "no masks - no service- no discussion". That sounds harsh but it is effective. That's one of the measures necessary to contain this pandemic.

Well here masks are generally mandatory from what I've seen. The fact that 2 maskless people at he post office got served here shouldn't have happened. I know I would have likely reported it if I had seen it because not having a mask... there's just no excuse for it.

[stawns]

22 minutes ago, The Lock said:

There's not going to be a source on that realistically. They both died within 2 weeks of getting the vaccine and not from covid. That's what I know.

 

You have to admit, no matter if it was the vaccine or not, it's pretty suspicious at that point. Imagine you're finding out about this and told to take the vaccine.

 

I know you're now going to turn around and say "oh no source, didn't happen". It's what you do to dismiss anything against what you believe, but put yourself in his shoes for one minute without the idealisms.

Of course I choose information that comes from credible sources, over anecdotes, everyone should.  There's been billions of doses administered around the world with almost negligible numbers of adverse reactions, let alone deaths.  The probability of two people in the same family dying from a vaccine is pretty much a statistical impossibility.  If I were that guy, no, it would not dissuade me from getting the jab because I'd understand that and I'd also know, from researching credible medical and scientific journals, that they are safe and very very effective.

[stawns]

15 minutes ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

the user @Boudriaswrote it in another thread: he was at the post office and two women came in at different times without wearing masks and they got served. That's something that it's impossible in Germany. Wearing masks in shops, post offices, restaurants, bank offices ...  is mandatory. There are signs at the entrance saying "no masks - no service- no discussion". That sounds harsh but it is effective. That's one of the measures necessary to contain this pandemic.

I've had that conversation with more than a few cashiers etc.  You have a sign on the door, it's a provincial mandate, why are you serving them?

[The Lock]

Just now, stawns said:

Of course I choose information that comes from credible sources, over anecdotes, everyone should.  There's been billions of doses administered around the world with almost negligible numbers of adverse reactions, let alone deaths.  The probability of two people in the same family dying from a vaccine is pretty much a statistical impossibility.  If I were that guy, no, it would not dissuade me from getting the jab because I'd understand that and I'd also know, from researching credible medical and scientific journals, that they are safe and very very effective.

How is it statistically impossible? Wouldn't it be the opposite if they are of similar blood and DNA? Think about that. Why do you think you have more of a risk at getting something like diabetes if your parents get it? It's the same sort of idea here.

[stawns]

33 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

I don't think people should be forced to sit there and get vaccinated either. I think a system of secretly darting them would be far better, maybe even more fun!

 

sold!

[Warhippy]

35 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Like, I guess my opinion is the mandates are good. If you have a reason not to take the vaccine so be it. It just means you can't do things that other people can.

 

No matter what, there's going to be a small part of the population that's going to suffer. It sucks, but in order for things to happen, it has to happen.

On my end, I disagree with many of the mandates as they are designed.  I believe it put those people merely on the fence staunchly in the no shots no mandates camp.

 

I see them.  I recognize them and the good they do.  But I don't entirely agree with the way they are implemented or how.  It runs the risk of turning draconian as opposed to preventative

[reyezone]

3 hours ago, Ogopogo_is_real said:

Hi all, im new to this forum and am a little concerned 

I don't identify as left or right wing (although I did vote liberal in the last few elections) This has nothing to do with politics

I work for the hospital and have received my two does of moderna without issue and was convinced that the vaccines were "safe and effective".

Looking back at the last 6 months or so there are a few things that don't add up.

For one, I know personally know more people that have had adverse reactions to the jab than people who have even caught covid, let alone died or were hospitalized

Here's the list I've complied:

• A good friend in her early forties developed myocarditis right after her 2nd jab and is still recovering months later. 
• My sisters good friend developed gillian barres syndrome 2 weeks after her 2nd jab. She was in a wheelchair for a couple weeks and is luckily walking again now
• My brother in-laws boss had a heart attack and died unexpectedly a week after his second jab 
• My brother in laws nephew got the jab at 12 years of age last week. He fell unconscious within 10 minutes after the jab. 2 days later he was having a haircut and fell unconscious again. they suspect heart issues. 

I realize this is all hearsay, but its very real in my world. Perhaps all these events are coincidence but that seems unlikely. 

 

My question is this, does anybody else on here have similar stories? 

I know a bunch of peeps injured post vaccination. Bllod clots, arthritis, heart attack... when I say a bunch I mean 5 I personally know. I don’t personally know anyone who was hospitalized with covid-19. 

[The Lock]

Just now, Warhippy said:

On my end, I disagree with many of the mandates as they are designed.  I believe it put those people merely on the fence staunchly in the no shots no mandates camp.

 

I see them.  I recognize them and the good they do.  But I don't entirely agree with the way they are implemented or how.  It runs the risk of turning draconian as opposed to preventative

Yeah, I think everything's kind of up in the air. There's a lot that could be done. This whole thing though is kind of on the spot at the same time as really the entire world's in unchartered territory at the moment with this whole pandemic. Sure, we have previous pandemics like the Spanish flu to look at, but they also didn't have the internetz and facebook among other stuff back then. lol

[Ogopogo_is_real]

39 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

By the numbers.

 

Vancouver island has had 13836 total cases of covid.  Vancouver island has had a total of 2741 hospitalizations due to covid of varying levels from emergency room visits to multi day hospitalizations and currently has 19 people in ICU units.  You are claiming to know more people that have had severe adverse reactions than have caught covid in the last 14 months.

 

Canada has administered 61,495,494 shots with a potential VAERs incidence ratio of 28,825 attributed to the shot including aches, pains to health issues and potential deaths.  or a percentage of 0.047% of incidences from all injections given in Canada.  22,244 that were not serious incidents.  6,581 considered serious.

 

But you know full well 5 of the total 6581 people who have experienced "serious" adverse reactions while working from home for the hospital doing renovation work handling emails and the like.

 

For you to know of 5 people personally or acquaintances that have had serious adverse effects out of those numbers but NOT know of the same number or more that actually had/have covid is so astronimcal an odd as to beggar belief.

Which, makes it unbelievable.  Not calling you a liar or anything just pointing out the odds, the numbers and the inconsistencies in an anecdotal statement is all.

That's fair and I can understand the skepticism looking at those numbers.

I will clarify further and say that one of the people i know is in the okanagan, another lives in Ontario. The other 2 were from the island.

From what I understand, none of these instances have been officially reported either.

My thought is that some follks will have adverse reactions, but will fail to come forward due to fear of being demonized or labelled anti-vaxx

 

 

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

On my end, I disagree with many of the mandates as they are designed.  I believe it put those people merely on the fence staunchly in the no shots no mandates camp.

 

I see them.  I recognize them and the good they do.  But I don't entirely agree with the way they are implemented or how.  It runs the risk of turning draconian as opposed to preventative

I disagree, but because they don't go far enough.  I don't buy the fence sitter argument, there's more than enough data out there to prove their safety and effectiveness.......anyone who hasn't got it by now is choosing that out of spite

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, reyezone said:

I know a bunch of peeps injured post vaccination. Bllod clots, arthritis, heart attack... when I say a bunch I mean 5 I personally know. I don’t personally know anyone who was hospitalized with covid-19. 

And you think those are vaccine related?

[The Lock]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

I disagree, but because they don't go far enough.  I don't buy the fence sitter argument, there's more than enough data out there to prove their safety and effectiveness.......anyone who hasn't got it by now is choosing that out of spite

See, and for the reasons we were just discussion, I'm going to respectfully disagree with you. I think most people should get the vaccine, but there are always going to be exceptions. This is not just with this vaccine but with any vaccine.

 

Here's a link directly to the CDC on this: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/should-not-vacc.html

 

Would you say those people are "spiteful" at that point?

 

And, for the record, I don't doubt you have the best intentions with your stance.... but realistically there's going to be people that shouldn't get the vaccine and I don't see the point in effectively being spiteful to those people for something they can't help. That being said, not getting vaccinated out of ignorance is something completely different of which I'd agree with you on that front.

Edited December 14, 2021 by The Lock

[JM_]

47 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

On my end, I disagree with many of the mandates as they are designed.  I believe it put those people merely on the fence staunchly in the no shots no mandates camp.

 

I see them.  I recognize them and the good they do.  But I don't entirely agree with the way they are implemented or how.  It runs the risk of turning draconian as opposed to preventative

but that is the way you have to treat some people in our society. Some people simply won't do the right thing and need to be mitigated. We shouldn't tolerate anti-vaxxers at the cost of risking others, there's no good reason for that. There's no slippery slope, its just risk reduction.

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by JM_

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, The Lock said:

See, and for the reasons we were just discussion, I'm going to respectfully disagree with you. I think most people should get the vaccine, but there are always going to be exceptions. This is not just with this vaccine but with any vaccine.

 

Here's a link directly to the CDC on this: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/should-not-vacc.html

 

Would you say those people are "spiteful" at that point?

 

And, for the record, I don't doubt you have the best intentions with your stance.... but realistically there's going to be people that shouldn't get the vaccine and I don't see the point in effectively being spiteful to those people for something they can't help. That being said, not getting vaccinated out of ignorance is something completely different of which I'd agree with you on that front.

Of course there's always going to be highly vulnerable people who cant get it and that's exactly why it's important that everyone else does get it, to help protect them.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

Of course there's always going to be highly vulnerable people who cant get it and that's exactly why it's important that everyone else does get it, to help protect them.

the anti-vaxxers that choose not to take it simply don't want to live with the consequences of their choice. Tough $&!#, you made a choice, but they won't man up and deal with it. Instead they want to threaten people, etc. Why on earth would anyone sympathize or be tolerant of those folks?

[The Lock]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

Of course there's always going to be highly vulnerable people who cant get it and that's exactly why it's important that everyone else does get it, to help protect them.

I'm glad we can at least agree on that, and I hope you at least see where I'm coming from even if you don't agree with me 100%.

Edited December 14, 2021 by The Lock