Israelis and Hamas Conflict/ Netanyahu Out as PM - Coalition Led by Bennett Take Over

[Ilunga]

7 hours ago, taxi said:

Your ability to distort facts is pretty incredible.

 

You are clearly trying to make the point that Hamas is just some minor off shoot, and the Palestinians have no responsibility for them being in power. This was very much a decision of the Palestinian people, particularly those of Gaza. They elected war.

Coming from you that is pure gold.

 

The facts I stated are true,I note that you do not try to refute them.

 

You are a typical victim blamer.

They choose war.

Do you honestly believe the women and children who are suffering and dieing are choosing war ?

Did they choose to have Israeli settlers continue to force them from their homes and steal their land ?

Did they choose to have military occupation of their land.

As I have stated,I treat others the way I wish to be treated.

That is the cornerstone of both my life and my arguments about the situation in Palestine.

I can absolutely guarantee you that the Israeli's would not want to be treated the way they are treating the Palestinians.

[Ilunga]

15 hours ago, drummer4now said:

This grudge match between Kragar and Ilunga is certainly interesting lol.. I remember having the same one with Ilunga when he was the user buddhas hand; very hard to win. 

 

We both kept saying the same things good day and this the last post on this etc... I believe it was a religious debate. 

 

How about you both just bury the hatchet and agree to disagree? 

I do not hold a grudge against anyone my friend.

And I am polite to a fault.

As I state I treat others the way I wish to be treated even when I disagree with them.

 

As I teach my son anger solves nothing,it drive people away,makes things worse and damages ones "heart".

 

I have seen the conditions the Palestinians live in and it upsets me.

When others are persecuted or suffer it has always triggered something inside me.

 

My mum used to say to me why do you feel others pain so much,I would answer,I don't know.

Since learning about being done with MRI machine on the different parts of the brain I can only conclude I have strong neural connections to the right side of the supramarginal gyrus,the part of the brain that is responsible for empathy and compassion.

 

The only things I wanted to win in life was downhill MTB races.

 

There are no winners when people kill and persecute each other.

Only losers.

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by Ilunga

[Ilunga]

So it finally the middle East's version of trump is finally going to be booted out.

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-57336574

 

I take heart from the picture of an Arab and a Israeli nationalist party leader sitting together and coming to an agreement.

Whichever side of the conflict you believe is right this is a good day for Israel and indeed the world.

 

[You Mad Bro?]

Team Israel. Hamas can pound sand. 

[bishopshodan]

1 hour ago, You Mad Bro? said:

Team Israel. Hamas can pound sand. 

Do they have any sand to call their own that they can pound? 

[Boudrias]

2 hours ago, You Mad Bro? said:

Team Israel. Hamas can pound sand. 

Arabs get second chances, Israelis don’t. Why would Jews trust anyone in the world? If the Arabs break thru they will kill as many Israelis as they can. The only reason the Sunnis as making nice is because they fear the $&!#tes more than the Israelis.

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, bishopshodan said:

Do they have any sand to call their own that they can pound? 

Wasn't there a two state solution previously offered, but Hamas will not accept?  

[thedestroyerofworlds]

12 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Wasn't there a two state solution previously offered, but Hamas will not accept?  

A whole part of the issue is while there are/were negotiations for peace, Palestinians were being evicted from areas they've lived in for decades and more while those areas were then handed out to Jewish "settlers".  While one hand was distracting, the other hand was up to no good.  

[taxi]

3 hours ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

A whole part of the issue is while there are/were negotiations for peace, Palestinians were being evicted from areas they've lived in for decades and more while those areas were then handed out to Jewish "settlers".  While one hand was distracting, the other hand was up to no good.  

A peace agreement would have ended all of that. That was the whole point. Also, not all settlers are Jewish. Arab Israelis have just as much right to live anywhere in Israel as the Jewish residents, and many have moved into Israeli settlements, especially around Jerusalem:

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-settlements-idUSKBN0JL0D620141207

 

[Ilunga]

9 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Arabs get second chances, Israelis don’t. Why would Jews trust anyone in the world? If the Arabs break thru they will kill as many Israelis as they can. The only reason the Sunnis as making nice is because they fear the $&!#tes more than the Israelis.

You obviously have no idea of the history behind not just this conflict but middle eastern conflict in general.

When Britian and France betrayed the Arabs and divided up the middle east re the Sykes - Picot agreement they did not take into account the ethnic and religious boundaries that had existed for centuries.

When all the middle east was under the control of the Ottoman Sultans they came up with the idea of "millyet".

 

As long as each ethnic,religious region pledged allegiance and paid taxes to the sultans and they were basically allowed to govern themselves.

 

WW 1 comes along the British and French had coveted the middle east since the crusades.

 

The British and French had three deals going, the McHahon- Hussein correspondence,a series of letters that promised the Arabs they would get their own independent state if they rebelled against the Ottomans who had sided with the Germans.

 

Then there was the Balfour Declaration that promised the Jews their own state within Palestine.

 

Then as I stated above the Sykes -Picot agreement.

Dividing up the middle east between Britian, France and Russia.

 

All the current conflict in the middle east can be traced back to these "deals".

[Warhippy]

11 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Arabs get second chances, Israelis don’t. Why would Jews trust anyone in the world? If the Arabs break thru they will kill as many Israelis as they can. The only reason the Sunnis as making nice is because they fear the $&!#tes more than the Israelis.

I dare say the endless attacks levelled against other nations without provocation followed by the creeping annexation of Palestine and ongoing illegal blockade as per every world court say that you're wrong but hey.

 

Do go on

[UKNuck96]

5 hours ago, Ilunga said:

You obviously have no idea of the history behind not just this conflict but middle eastern conflict in general.

When Britian and France betrayed the Arabs and divided up the middle east re the Sykes - Picot agreement they did not take into account the ethnic and religious boundaries that had existed for centuries.

When all the middle east was under the control of the Ottoman Sultans they came up with the idea of "millyet".

 

As long as each ethnic,religious region pledged allegiance and paid taxes to the sultans and they were basically allowed to govern themselves.

 

WW 1 comes along the British and French had coveted the middle east since the crusades.

 

The British and French had three deals going, the McHahon- Hussein correspondence,a series of letters that promised the Arabs they would get their own independent state if they rebelled against the Ottomans who had sided with the Germans.

 

Then there was the Balfour Declaration that promised the Jews their own state within Palestine.

 

Then as I stated above the Sykes -Picot agreement.

Dividing up the middle east between Britian, France and Russia.

 

All the current conflict in the middle east can be traced back to these "deals".

A line in the sand is a book that’s worth reading which covers a lot of this, it’s not fully comprehensive as I don’t think anyone can be but for someone who wants to understand the overarching issues present and how this transpired it’s worth a read 

[Ilunga]

10 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

A line in the sand is a book that’s worth reading which covers a lot of this, it’s not fully comprehensive as I don’t think anyone can be but for someone who wants to understand the overarching issues present and how this transpired it’s worth a read 

Thanks for the tip brother 

Appreciate it.

[Boudrias]

14 hours ago, Ilunga said:

You obviously have no idea of the history behind not just this conflict but middle eastern conflict in general.

When Britian and France betrayed the Arabs and divided up the middle east re the Sykes - Picot agreement they did not take into account the ethnic and religious boundaries that had existed for centuries.

When all the middle east was under the control of the Ottoman Sultans they came up with the idea of "millyet".

 

As long as each ethnic,religious region pledged allegiance and paid taxes to the sultans and they were basically allowed to govern themselves.

 

WW 1 comes along the British and French had coveted the middle east since the crusades.

 

The British and French had three deals going, the McHahon- Hussein correspondence,a series of letters that promised the Arabs they would get their own independent state if they rebelled against the Ottomans who had sided with the Germans.

 

Then there was the Balfour Declaration that promised the Jews their own state within Palestine.

 

Then as I stated above the Sykes -Picot agreement.

Dividing up the middle east between Britian, France and Russia.

 

All the current conflict in the middle east can be traced back to these "deals".

Bottom line in 1946 is whether Jews get their own country or not. Their sacrifice says yes. It was up to the world to mitigate the displacement of Arabs that resulted. The Palestinians have been pawns ever since. There is no reason for Israel to trust any peace treaty proposed by Arab states who have regularly attacked them and who would gladly finish the job the Germans started. It could take hundreds of years before Israel, the country, is accepted. 

[PhillipBlunt]

15 hours ago, Ilunga said:

You obviously have no idea of the history behind not just this conflict but middle eastern conflict in general.

When Britian and France betrayed the Arabs and divided up the middle east re the Sykes - Picot agreement they did not take into account the ethnic and religious boundaries that had existed for centuries.

When all the middle east was under the control of the Ottoman Sultans they came up with the idea of "millyet".

 

As long as each ethnic,religious region pledged allegiance and paid taxes to the sultans and they were basically allowed to govern themselves.

 

WW 1 comes along the British and French had coveted the middle east since the crusades.

 

The British and French had three deals going, the McHahon- Hussein correspondence,a series of letters that promised the Arabs they would get their own independent state if they rebelled against the Ottomans who had sided with the Germans.

 

Then there was the Balfour Declaration that promised the Jews their own state within Palestine.

 

Then as I stated above the Sykes -Picot agreement.

Dividing up the middle east between Britian, France and Russia.

 

All the current conflict in the middle east can be traced back to these "deals".

Your thorough posts are always good to read. I appreciate your dedication to bringing facts to the table. 

[taxi]

14 hours ago, Warhippy said:

I dare say the endless attacks levelled against other nations without provocation followed by the creeping annexation of Palestine and ongoing illegal blockade as per every world court say that you're wrong but hey.

 

Do go on

 

Can you provide more detail about these endless attacks without provocation? What is your definition of provocation?

[taxi]

On 6/2/2021 at 5:28 PM, Ilunga said:

Coming from you that is pure gold.

 

The facts I stated are true,I note that you do not try to refute them.

 

You are a typical victim blamer.

They choose war.

Do you honestly believe the women and children who are suffering and dieing are choosing war ?

Did they choose to have Israeli settlers continue to force them from their homes and steal their land ?

Did they choose to have military occupation of their land.

As I have stated,I treat others the way I wish to be treated.

That is the cornerstone of both my life and my arguments about the situation in Palestine.

I can absolutely guarantee you that the Israeli's would not want to be treated the way they are treating the Palestinians.

So basically your argument boils down to the Palestinians being labeled as victims, and they, therefore, can do no wrong and are not responsible for any of their own actions. There's no doubt that the Palestinians are victims, but when they do things, like elect Hamas as their leaders, it will lead to more conflict.

[UKNuck96]

1 minute ago, taxi said:

So basically your argument boils down to the Palestinians being labeled as victims, and they, therefore, can do no wrong and are not responsible for any of their own actions. There's no doubt that the Palestinians are victims, but when they do things, like elect Hamas as their leaders, it will lead to more conflict.

As opposed to Israel electing Lukid which was formed from a coalition including groups such as the Irgun 

[taxi]

45 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

As opposed to Israel electing Lukid which was formed from a coalition including groups such as the Irgun 

I don't disagree. This is a conflict. The problem I see in this discussion is there are clearly people trying to turn this into a purely moral debate where only side is at fault. Also, if the Palestinians dismantled Hamas, including its military wing, into a standard political party (the way Israel did with Irgun), it would solve a lot of problems. 

[UKNuck96]

15 minutes ago, taxi said:

I don't disagree. This is a conflict. The problem I see in this discussion is there are clearly people trying to turn this into a purely moral debate where only side is at fault. Also, if the Palestinians dismantled Hamas, including its military wing, into a standard political party (the way Israel did with Irgun), it would solve a lot of problems. 

The PLO tried that