[Trade] Canucks trade Jay Beagle, Loui Eriksson, Antoine Roussel, 2021 1st-round pick, 2022 2nd-round pick, 2023 7th-round pick to Coyotes for Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Conor Garland

[oldnews]

3 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

 I just believe people who are actually experts

[knucklehead91]

7 hours ago, khay said:

 

You are right, Eriksson was 30 when he signed that deal.

 

I sometimes wonder why he fell off the cliff. It wasn't a gradual decline but a free fall for Eriksson. Complacency after earning the final contract of his playing career? He seemed to be in good shape conditioning wise; I guess he stopped doing the things that made him successful, like going to the net and potting garbage goals.

 

As long as OEL rebounds and plays well for the next 3 years, on par with Edler on the defensive side of things and better than Edler on the offensive side of things, I am willing to accept a gradual decline in the last 3 years of his deal.

 

I'm hoping that since Edler played so well into his mid 30's, that OEL will also be good for the next 4-5 years.

 

 

 

So I think there are a few pretty fair reasons as to why LE fell off the cliff.

1) injuries in his first 2 seasons, both kept him out for a significant amount of time

 

2) Linemates - LE was brought in to play with the Sedins. However because of injuries it kept him from playing with the guys he signed in Vancouver to play with. Eriksson spent 31.7% of his time 5v5 with the Sedins. 18.8% with Granlund and Sutter, 10.2% with Granlund and Chaput, 6.8% with Megna and Sutter…. Over half of his ice time 5v5 he was paired with 2nd and 3rd liners..

 

 

 

3) Utilization - LE went from a 58% oZs in Boston and Dallas to a 34-52% oZs when he came to Vancouver. He was being used moreso in his own end of the ice as opposed to the other end of the ice. Not easy to produce when you start in your own zone more often than not. His highest oZs with Vancouver was 52% and that was his first season, after that he was 43% in 2017-18, 41% in 2018-19 and 34% in 2019-20. And as age goes on, its even harder to produce when starting from your own zone.

 

 

4) The Sedins retired and we entered a rebuild

 

What can be said about Eriksson is that despite his low production which there are some understandable reasons…. His CORSI was pretty damn decent when you compare it to his zone starts and his takeaways

 

2016-17

65GP

48% dZs

51.4%CORSI
37 TK

16GV

His first season he maintained possession evenly with his deployment, he had substantially higher takeaways than give aways which shows how responsible he was and how hard he works to win battles

 

2017-18

50GP

56.2% dZs

48.3% CORSI - his CORSI is nearly 50% which is pretty impressive considering he starts in his own zone more often and being in your own zone you can get hemmed in, puck fails to exit the zone and you get trapped and your CORSI begins to take a dip.

25 TK

9 GV 

Minimal giveaways and higher takeaways in your own zone is a defensively sound player. He rarely puts the team in danger in his own zone and he retrieves pucks to help get us out of danger

 

2018-19

81GP

58.8% dZs

48% CORSI

29 TK

10GV

 

2019-20

49GP

65.8% dZs

45% CORSI

17 TK

8 GV

 

I think you can kinda see how the trend of LE’s deployment increasing more and more in his own zone…  although he only played 7 games in 2020-21 he had a  72.7% dZs

 

We didnt pay 6mil for a shutdown guy, we paid for 6 mil for a 30 goal scorer, but he was used as a responsible dzone guy rather than an X-Factor. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SilentSam]

40 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

So I think there are a few pretty fair reasons as to why LE fell off the cliff.

1) injuries in his first 2 seasons, both kept him out for a significant amount of time

 

2) Linemates - LE was brought in to play with the Sedins. However because of injuries it kept him from playing with the guys he signed in Vancouver to play with. Eriksson spent 31.7% of his time 5v5 with the Sedins. 18.8% with Granlund and Sutter, 10.2% with Granlund and Chaput, 6.8% with Megna and Sutter…. Over half of his ice time 5v5 he was paired with 2nd and 3rd liners..

 

 

 

3) Utilization - LE went from a 58% oZs in Boston and Dallas to a 34-52% oZs when he came to Vancouver. He was being used moreso in his own end of the ice as opposed to the other end of the ice. Not easy to produce when you start in your own zone more often than not. His highest oZs with Vancouver was 52% and that was his first season, after that he was 43% in 2017-18, 41% in 2018-19 and 34% in 2019-20. And as age goes on, its even harder to produce when starting from your own zone.

 

 

4) The Sedins retired and we entered a rebuild

 

What can be said about Eriksson is that despite his low production which there are some understandable reasons…. His CORSI was pretty damn decent when you compare it to his zone starts and his takeaways

 

2016-17

65GP

48% dZs

51.4%CORSI
37 TK

16GV

His first season he maintained possession evenly with his deployment, he had substantially higher takeaways than give aways which shows how responsible he was and how hard he works to win battles

 

2017-18

50GP

56.2% dZs

48.3% CORSI - his CORSI is nearly 50% which is pretty impressive considering he starts in his own zone more often and being in your own zone you can get hemmed in, puck fails to exit the zone and you get trapped and your CORSI begins to take a dip.

25 TK

9 GV 

Minimal giveaways and higher takeaways in your own zone is a defensively sound player. He rarely puts the team in danger in his own zone and he retrieves pucks to help get us out of danger

 

2018-19

81GP

58.8% dZs

48% CORSI

29 TK

10GV

 

2019-20

49GP

65.8% dZs

45% CORSI

17 TK

8 GV

 

I think you can kinda see how the trend of LE’s deployment increasing more and more in his own zone…  although he only played 7 games in 2020-21 he had a  72.7% dZs

 

We didnt pay 6mil for a shutdown guy, we paid for 6 mil for a 30 goal scorer, but he was used as a responsible dzone guy rather than an X-Factor. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not trying to ridicule what you just wrote,  but I think most of here regarding Eriksson are just so happy he is off the roster, which is going to allow opportunities for other players.

The fact his money is now better utilized was like a magic trick..

 

 

[knucklehead91]

2 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Not trying to ridicule what you just wrote,  but I think most of here regarding Eriksson are just so happy he is off the roster, which is going to allow opportunities for other players.

The fact his money is now better utilized was like a magic trick..

 

 

I totally agree that Im happy to free up that 6mil. I was merely just explaining to a poster who wondered what happened to LEs production. Its not as if LE just signed with Vancouver and then mailed it in, he worked his ass off and was defensively sound, its just too bad that he was being utilized that way, rather than Green trying to utilize his offence. Either way its done and over with and the majority of Erikssons contract was spent in the dark and rainy days of Vancouver. 

[sassbs]

1 hour ago, knucklehead91 said:

So I think there are a few pretty fair reasons as to why LE fell off the cliff.

1) injuries in his first 2 seasons, both kept him out for a significant amount of time

 

2) Linemates - LE was brought in to play with the Sedins. However because of injuries it kept him from playing with the guys he signed in Vancouver to play with. Eriksson spent 31.7% of his time 5v5 with the Sedins. 18.8% with Granlund and Sutter, 10.2% with Granlund and Chaput, 6.8% with Megna and Sutter…. Over half of his ice time 5v5 he was paired with 2nd and 3rd liners..

 

 

 

3) Utilization - LE went from a 58% oZs in Boston and Dallas to a 34-52% oZs when he came to Vancouver. He was being used moreso in his own end of the ice as opposed to the other end of the ice. Not easy to produce when you start in your own zone more often than not. His highest oZs with Vancouver was 52% and that was his first season, after that he was 43% in 2017-18, 41% in 2018-19 and 34% in 2019-20. And as age goes on, its even harder to produce when starting from your own zone.

 

 

4) The Sedins retired and we entered a rebuild

 

What can be said about Eriksson is that despite his low production which there are some understandable reasons…. His CORSI was pretty damn decent when you compare it to his zone starts and his takeaways

 

2016-17

65GP

48% dZs

51.4%CORSI
37 TK

16GV

His first season he maintained possession evenly with his deployment, he had substantially higher takeaways than give aways which shows how responsible he was and how hard he works to win battles

 

2017-18

50GP

56.2% dZs

48.3% CORSI - his CORSI is nearly 50% which is pretty impressive considering he starts in his own zone more often and being in your own zone you can get hemmed in, puck fails to exit the zone and you get trapped and your CORSI begins to take a dip.

25 TK

9 GV 

Minimal giveaways and higher takeaways in your own zone is a defensively sound player. He rarely puts the team in danger in his own zone and he retrieves pucks to help get us out of danger

 

2018-19

81GP

58.8% dZs

48% CORSI

29 TK

10GV

 

2019-20

49GP

65.8% dZs

45% CORSI

17 TK

8 GV

 

I think you can kinda see how the trend of LE’s deployment increasing more and more in his own zone…  although he only played 7 games in 2020-21 he had a  72.7% dZs

 

We didnt pay 6mil for a shutdown guy, we paid for 6 mil for a 30 goal scorer, but he was used as a responsible dzone guy rather than an X-Factor. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How did he even get injured!??   He doesn’t hit, he avoids being hit, he never hustles or works hard. He’s just there.   So the fact you said he was injured and his play fell off because of it..:.
 

You lose sir.. good day to you!

[ilduce39]

1 hour ago, knucklehead91 said:

I totally agree that Im happy to free up that 6mil. I was merely just explaining to a poster who wondered what happened to LEs production. Its not as if LE just signed with Vancouver and then mailed it in, he worked his ass off and was defensively sound, its just too bad that he was being utilized that way, rather than Green trying to utilize his offence. Either way its done and over with and the majority of Erikssons contract was spent in the dark and rainy days of Vancouver. 

I agree it wasn’t like his “effort” dried up.  He wouldn’t have gotten the ice time if that was the case.  On the other hand, I don’t think it was all utilization… he had some time with Bo and up the lineup especially early on. 
 

I think a big part was his hands/confidence dried up in Van.  In my memory he’d get a lot of chances still… and flub it into the goalie’s chest or pads. As someone who didn’t follow him a lot pre-Vancouver I can’t imagine him getting 30-ish goals with his skill level.  On the other hand, he had a knack for getting into the right spots… he just could never capitalize when a goalie was in the net.  Frustrating guy to watch even if it wasn’t for the contract.

[knucklehead91]

21 minutes ago, sassbs said:

How did he even get injured!??   He doesn’t hit, he avoids being hit, he never hustles or works hard. He’s just there.   So the fact you said he was injured and his play fell off because of it..:.
 

You lose sir.. good day to you!

Maybe try reading lessons? Or watching the Canucks? Or paying attention to the team?? Any of the above will do. 

injuries+linemates+Zone deployment+rebuild. Get a bloody grip on reality dude. Its not all on Eriksson. He wasnt used offensively, he was used an average of nearly 60% of the time in the dzone. He was injured twice and missed 49 games in his first 2 seasons 49/164 = 29.8% of his first 2 seasons were on IR. He was on 2nd/3rd line for the majority of the time he spent here and it wasnt for a lack of effort. Its because he was A RESPONSIBLE PLAYER. 

2016-17 4th in blocked shots on forward. More than Burrows and Hansen… does that mean they are pu$$ies?? Because they dont block shots? 
2016-17 - tied for 2nd takeaways with Horvat.. so Horvat is kinda useless and just “there” too eh?

2017-18 2nd in blocked shots in 32 less games than Horvat… so Horvat is just afraid to block shots?
LE had more takeaways than Horvat as well… so that must mean Horvat REALLY doesnt work hard at all.

2018-19…. LE stilllll more takeaways than Horvat…

Oh and Hansen.. the Honey badger… not much of a shot blocker or puck retriever either eh…Jannik Hansen 10 years 565GP and only 170 blocks and 248 takeaways… LE 5 years 252GP with Vancouver 100 blocks 114 takeaways. So I guess the Honey Badger was always just “kinda there” 

 

and for the record its not “that I said he got injured” its actually a fact

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canucks-loui-eriksson-4-6-weeks-knee-sprain/sn-amp/

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/lastwordonsports.com/hockey/2018/03/01/vancouver-canucks-eriksson-injured/amp/

 

Sooooo the fact that you call a player lazy and useless when the stats were laid out for you just goes to show you know nothing about hockey and are completely biased

 

You sir, are a troll… Begone with you!

 

[knucklehead91]

27 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

I agree it wasn’t like his “effort” dried up.  He wouldn’t have gotten the ice time if that was the case.  On the other hand, I don’t think it was all utilization… he had some time with Bo and up the lineup especially early on. 
 

I think a big part was his hands/confidence dried up in Van.  In my memory he’d get a lot of chances still… and flub it into the goalie’s chest or pads. As someone who didn’t follow him a lot pre-Vancouver I can’t imagine him getting 30-ish goals with his skill level.  On the other hand, he had a knack for getting into the right spots… he just could never capitalize when a goalie was in the net.  Frustrating guy to watch even if it wasn’t for the contract.

Totally, theres always that element to the game of being snake bitten and not being able to bury your chances. LE went from roughly 2:30 of PP time in his first season to half of that the following season, 2018-19 he had just over a minute of PP time… 2019-20 he was down to 4 seconds lol….  LE had speed, worked his butt off to get into scoring position and beat guys to open areas. He also had a pretty wicked shooting % of like 13% which is pretty damn good. 
If you look at when LE joined Vancouver, it wasnt during the good times… it was during the darkest times in the last 20 years. At the tail end of the Sedins careers and almost zero youth on the up and up.. He signed when Horvat and Virtanen were the only young stars we drafted. McCann got sent packing the year prior.

 

it wasnt all utilization, but it was definitely a big factor. How would the Sedins do if they started in the dzone 65% of the time instead of the ozone? Say you lose the draw, you battle to win the puck back, then you need to exit the zone, gain the centre line and either dump it in and get off or carry it in with heavy legs and not get a good chance? There were many factors to LEs lack of offence. Utilization, injuries (how well did he recover from the knee sprain?) linemates… Megna and Chaput… Sutter.. Granlund.. those guys made up 50% of his linemates 5v5

 

 

I think the one way we should look at it, is we didnt have a 6mil anchor during a competitive window. We made a splash last playoffs unexpectedly shortly after the Sedins retired. But it isnt interfering with our window to win. LE made some good money during some really sh**ty years in Vancouver, he worked hard and was a consummate professional, showed up in shape, worked hard, unfortunately he didnt produce… no harm no foul… we werent a cup contender. Its over and done with just in time for our window to win to start to open.

 

[sassbs]

10 hours ago, knucklehead91 said:

Maybe try reading lessons? Or watching the Canucks? Or paying attention to the team?? Any of the above will do. 

injuries+linemates+Zone deployment+rebuild. Get a bloody grip on reality dude. Its not all on Eriksson. He wasnt used offensively, he was used an average of nearly 60% of the time in the dzone. He was injured twice and missed 49 games in his first 2 seasons 49/164 = 29.8% of his first 2 seasons were on IR. He was on 2nd/3rd line for the majority of the time he spent here and it wasnt for a lack of effort. Its because he was A RESPONSIBLE PLAYER. 

2016-17 4th in blocked shots on forward. More than Burrows and Hansen… does that mean they are pu$$ies?? Because they dont block shots? 
2016-17 - tied for 2nd takeaways with Horvat.. so Horvat is kinda useless and just “there” too eh?

2017-18 2nd in blocked shots in 32 less games than Horvat… so Horvat is just afraid to block shots?
LE had more takeaways than Horvat as well… so that must mean Horvat REALLY doesnt work hard at all.

2018-19…. LE stilllll more takeaways than Horvat…

Oh and Hansen.. the Honey badger… not much of a shot blocker or puck retriever either eh…Jannik Hansen 10 years 565GP and only 170 blocks and 248 takeaways… LE 5 years 252GP with Vancouver 100 blocks 114 takeaways. So I guess the Honey Badger was always just “kinda there” 

 

and for the record its not “that I said he got injured” its actually a fact

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canucks-loui-eriksson-4-6-weeks-knee-sprain/sn-amp/

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/lastwordonsports.com/hockey/2018/03/01/vancouver-canucks-eriksson-injured/amp/

 

Sooooo the fact that you call a player lazy and useless when the stats were laid out for you just goes to show you know nothing about hockey and are completely biased

 

You sir, are a troll… Begone with you!

 

You sir… have a love affair for the most dead weight player in the league!   He has made this team a hell of a lot better by not being on it.  
 

and I’m half troll thank you very much.  

Edited August 22, 2021 by sassbs

[knucklehead91]

25 minutes ago, sassbs said:

You sir… have a love affair the most dead weight player in the league!   He has made this team a hell of a lot better by not being on it.  
 

and I’m half troll thank you very much.  

Lmao bud, its not an affair its the real deal. Dead weight??? Lol Skinner, Okposo? Marner? Matthews? Tavares?? Sorry does it hurt when you Maple Qu33f? I’ll stop talkin about the entire dead weight of the Laffs roster who couldnt close out a 3-1 series lead.

[Westcoastcanucks777]

Hope some of our old #83 rubs off on Garlund eh guys?!

[ilduce39]

The Loui talk reminds me of his own goal in the first game with the Canucks.  
 

Really hope OEL gets off to a hot start with the club. The whole team needs to hit the ground running to put some distance on last season but you know our myopic media/fanbase will be hyper focused on OEL to set the tone on the season.  No pressure.  

[iinatcc]

7 hours ago, knucklehead91 said:

So I think there are a few pretty fair reasons as to why LE fell off the cliff.

 

I think all your theories aside the more correct reason is that Eriksson stopped trying after he collected his pay check. 

 

Even for his standards in Boston his final year there felt like an outlier and overachieved compared to his previous years in Boston. Which makes me believe his performance was more of a contract year than anything

 

Add to that there are folks in the media pointing out Eriksson being disinterested while being a Canuck. 

[Dazzle]

1 hour ago, iinatcc said:

I think all your theories aside the more correct reason is that Eriksson stopped trying after he collected his pay check. 

 

Even for his standards in Boston his final year there felt like an outlier and overachieved compared to his previous years in Boston. Which makes me believe his performance was more of a contract year than anything

 

Add to that there are folks in the media pointing out Eriksson being disinterested while being a Canuck. 

Knucklehead presented a pretty interesting take on Eriksson and how he was utilized. You can agree or disagree with it, but you didn't even bother to address it.

What did you do instead?  Ignore everything, and then look for everything else to support your preconceived points.

[iinatcc]

57 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

What did you do instead?  Ignore everything, and then look for everything else to support your preconceived points.

If that is what you think ok. No need to take things personally (and take a chill pill ) 

 

I didn't say his (or her) theories were wrong but, ultimately, he was just disinterested when he joined the team 

[BigTramFan]

19 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

The jury is still out on taking on OEL. He needs to be a lot better defensively than he has been the last few years.

Can you explain to me exactly what you mean? Which part of his defense has been lacking in recent years compared to earlier years? Thanks

Edited August 22, 2021 by BigTramFan

[sassbs]

9 hours ago, knucklehead91 said:

Lmao bud, its not an affair its the real deal. Dead weight??? Lol Skinner, Okposo? Marner? Matthews? Tavares?? Sorry does it hurt when you Maple Qu33f? I’ll stop talkin about the entire dead weight of the Laffs roster who couldnt close out a 3-1 series lead.

Lol.   What gives you the impression that I’m a maple leafs fan!??!  Yes I’m from Toronto, but I hate them more than I hate eriksson and virtanen combined!   The amount of arguments I get into everyday with leafs fans is insane.   Over here, you simply cannot win an argument with a leafs fan.  You will never win!
 

im just breaking balls dude… but seriously, eriksson sucks.  I respect your argument and facts though. 

[NHL97OneTimer]

16 hours ago, knucklehead91 said:

So I think there are a few pretty fair reasons as to why LE fell off the cliff.

 

We didnt pay 6mil for a shutdown guy, we paid for 6 mil for a 30 goal scorer, but he was used as a responsible dzone guy rather than an X-Factor. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I love that you used stats, but your analysis of the stats could be off.  The story could also read:  LE started with a >50% OZ but dwindled to ~30% given his lack of production and so he was relegated to a 3rd / 4th line defensive role instead.  I think this is more accurate. 

 

3rd and 4th line players who want more ice time and more OZ starts outwork their opponents and teammates.  When players are in a rut, they get out of it through hard work....they produce chances even if they don't go in.  I don't recall seeing LE do any of this.  No Burrows / Motte type of effort at all.  Not once do I recall hearing that he had a great offseason and is looking to push for a top 6 spot.

 

If it was due to an injury, he had years to heal up and produce some level of effort as above.

 

So my perspective was that he was a $6 million per year who, despite potentially having an injury here and there, never really had the commitment to play to the level of his contract.  For this reason, I cannot point fingers at the coach or his deployment.  The only reason I would give LE some slack is if he was dealing with significant mental health issues that we weren't aware of.

Edited August 22, 2021 by NHL97OneTimer

[Guest]

Willie Desjardins also had a lot to do with starting Loui's downward spiral.  

 

The guy signed to play with the Sedins and on the powerplay and Willie took him off both of those deployments. 

[aGENT]

17 hours ago, knucklehead91 said:

So I think there are a few pretty fair reasons as to why LE fell off the cliff.

1) injuries in his first 2 seasons, both kept him out for a significant amount of time

 

2) Linemates - LE was brought in to play with the Sedins. However because of injuries it kept him from playing with the guys he signed in Vancouver to play with. Eriksson spent 31.7% of his time 5v5 with the Sedins. 18.8% with Granlund and Sutter, 10.2% with Granlund and Chaput, 6.8% with Megna and Sutter…. Over half of his ice time 5v5 he was paired with 2nd and 3rd liners..

 

 

 

3) Utilization - LE went from a 58% oZs in Boston and Dallas to a 34-52% oZs when he came to Vancouver. He was being used moreso in his own end of the ice as opposed to the other end of the ice. Not easy to produce when you start in your own zone more often than not. His highest oZs with Vancouver was 52% and that was his first season, after that he was 43% in 2017-18, 41% in 2018-19 and 34% in 2019-20. And as age goes on, its even harder to produce when starting from your own zone.

 

 

4) The Sedins retired and we entered a rebuild

 

What can be said about Eriksson is that despite his low production which there are some understandable reasons…. His CORSI was pretty damn decent when you compare it to his zone starts and his takeaways

 

2016-17

65GP

48% dZs

51.4%CORSI
37 TK

16GV

His first season he maintained possession evenly with his deployment, he had substantially higher takeaways than give aways which shows how responsible he was and how hard he works to win battles

 

2017-18

50GP

56.2% dZs

48.3% CORSI - his CORSI is nearly 50% which is pretty impressive considering he starts in his own zone more often and being in your own zone you can get hemmed in, puck fails to exit the zone and you get trapped and your CORSI begins to take a dip.

25 TK

9 GV 

Minimal giveaways and higher takeaways in your own zone is a defensively sound player. He rarely puts the team in danger in his own zone and he retrieves pucks to help get us out of danger

 

2018-19

81GP

58.8% dZs

48% CORSI

29 TK

10GV

 

2019-20

49GP

65.8% dZs

45% CORSI

17 TK

8 GV

 

I think you can kinda see how the trend of LE’s deployment increasing more and more in his own zone…  although he only played 7 games in 2020-21 he had a  72.7% dZs

 

We didnt pay 6mil for a shutdown guy, we paid for 6 mil for a 30 goal scorer, but he was used as a responsible dzone guy rather than an X-Factor. 

 

Players earn their deployment. Full stop. Coaching staff didn't 'black sheep' him down the lineup, he did that himself. When his offense dried up, they had little choice but to deploy him in a defensive role. It was the only part of his game still worth a damn.