JeremyCuddles Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 On 8/18/2021 at 3:04 PM, teepain said: Just change this cap into a luxury cap. its better for players and teams . They can spend if they pay more. Every other league does this . No hard cap bull$&!# Yeah and those leagues tend to have the same handful of teams that are good while the rest are just there for fun. At least with NHL they have artificial parity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Dazzle said: Yeah, it's definitely not the worst contract in the world. I mean, HELLO, ERIK KARLSSON? Just for fun: VAN Karlsson SJ 1st ‘23 or Myers 50% retained on Karlsson (the maximum a team can retain on a player) (Im not aware if San Jose has reached the cap top in collective buyouts of 15% max) How good is Karlsson @ $5.750MIL/yr x 6 years? It’s only $2.000MIL more than Hamonic in Canucks terms… How good are the Canucks? OEL - KARLSSON HUGHES - MYERS POOLMAN - HAMONIC SCHENN JUOLEVI - RATHBONE Something in the $5.000MIL gives financially and must get corrected via trade in outgoing salary (after the Pettersson and the Hughes deals are accounted for, or perhaps they sign for a little bit less for the commitment to winning) OEL - KARLSSON HUGHES - HAMONIC POOLMAN - RATHBONE JUOLEVI The question could then very well become, who is better for the Canucks? Myers or Karlsson? Edited August 21, 2021 by Me_ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DeNiro Posted August 21, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 hour ago, iinatcc said: So I was listening to Sportsnet 650 and them talking to someone from the sports media in Arizona. They were talking mostly about the Yotes and their recent problems but he also referenced thanking the Canucks for taking the "worst contract in the NHL" referring to OEL. Seems like the people from the Arizona media are in agreement about OEL being quite terrible for the Yotes. Probably some 15 year old kid on an internship covering the team because that’s the only people they can get to cover the Coyotes. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, DeNiro said: Probably some 15 year old kid on an internship covering the team because that’s the only people they can get to cover the Coyotes. Apparently he grew up in New York and grew up during the Islanders dynasty years and moved to Arizona during the late 90's and now covers all the sports teams in Arizona. Edited August 21, 2021 by iinatcc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, shayster007 said: The fact that somone reffered to it as the worst contract in the NHL shows how little creditability they have. OEL may not be worth his contract anymore, but he is certainly not the worst contract even if he doesn't rebound in Vancouver (which I feel there is a strong possibility he does). Sounds like some dweeb stuck in Arizona attempting to may himself feel better about the tire fire that is that team. Well I agree it's not the worst contract in the NHL but there does seem to be a pattern with the Arizona media that OEL isn't as good as Benning advertised. It does seem like, from the Arizona media, that OEL leaving is not so much "its was just time to move on and we will miss him (like Edler here)" it feels more like "so long and don't let the door hit you on your wait out (like Eriksson here)" type of parting. Granted the contract is a bit better for the Canucks because of the salary retention, maybe our expectations of OEL is too high compared of what he really brings to the table . He will probably still be a good Top 4 Dman for the Canucks but probably more of a #3 and #4 rather than a #1 or #2 Edited August 21, 2021 by iinatcc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-P Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, iinatcc said: Well I agree it's not the worst contract in the NHL but there does seem to be a pattern with the Arizona media that OEL isn't as good as Benning advertised. It does seem like, from the Arizona media, that OEL leaving is not so much "its was just time to move on and we will miss him (like Edler here)" it feels more like "so long and don't let the door hit you on your wait out (like Eriksson here)" type of parting. Granted the contract is a bit better for the Canucks because of the salary retention, maybe our expectations of OEL is too high compared of what he really brings to the table . He will probably still be a good Top 4 Dman for the Canucks but probably more of a #3 and #4 rather than a #1 or #2 I don't think anyone really knows which OEL we'll see with the Canucks. It's interesting though that both the Sedins and JB seems convinced he'll bounce back big time. They probably know some things we don't? If I'm guessing: OEL was really really unhappy both with the franchise, the state of the team and the way the coach wanted him to play. But maybe it's wishful thinking, we'll see... Edited August 21, 2021 by J-P 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 48MPHSlapShot Posted August 21, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2021 On the off chance that OEL comes in and actually regains his Norris candidate form, it's gonna be real cathartic to rub some people's noses in it. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alflives Posted August 21, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2021 40 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: On the off chance that OEL comes in and actually regains his Norris candidate form, it's gonna be real cathartic to rub some people's noses in it. When our team starts the season playing great, and winning lots of games the fishers that have been casting their lines here will sail back to their home waters in Loser Leaf Land, Smelly Soilerville, and Cowpie Cowtown. Unless, of course, their home port is where Francis the Talking Mule, Little Joe, or Stevie Yzerboy are. 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post D.B Cooper Posted August 21, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2021 6 hours ago, Me_ said: Just for fun: VAN Karlsson SJ 1st ‘23 or Myers 50% retained on Karlsson (the maximum a team can retain on a player) (Im not aware if San Jose has reached the cap top in collective buyouts of 15% max) How good is Karlsson @ $5.750MIL/yr x 6 years? It’s only $2.000MIL more than Hamonic in Canucks terms… How good are the Canucks? OEL - KARLSSON HUGHES - MYERS POOLMAN - HAMONIC SCHENN JUOLEVI - RATHBONE Something in the $5.000MIL gives financially and must get corrected via trade in outgoing salary (after the Pettersson and the Hughes deals are accounted for, or perhaps they sign for a little bit less for the commitment to winning) OEL - KARLSSON HUGHES - HAMONIC POOLMAN - RATHBONE JUOLEVI The question could then very well become, who is better for the Canucks? Myers or Karlsson? Karlsson is totally washed up. He only got 22 points last season (Myers got 21). The only good part of his game is deteriorating fast. Even with EK at 50% I’m keeping Myers. 1 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 On 8/18/2021 at 6:15 PM, Alflives said: Luxury tax doesn’t work. End up with three or four super rich teams at the top, and the rest are basically farm clubs who supply those elite four. Plus the inflated contracts will return right away. Look at some of the deals been made now - with flat cap looming for another 3-4 years lol. Couldn't imagine what TO and NYR would pay for some guys. It would hurt the league. Sucks though, as fans we sure had it good before salary disclosure, and even for a few years after. It ended up costing us Bure in the end. ... what i don't like is how 5 teams have a distinct advantage when building their teams over the rest of the league. High taxes and market BS (probably weather too), are making it harder and harder for Canadian teams to compete. 34.6 vs 53%...It's no surprise that 3 were in the final four two years ago - last season two. TB, give them credit at least they won twice. It's not a massive advantage but it is one for sure. Like being able to add a 8-10 million dollar player all thing being "equal". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 29 minutes ago, drummerboy said: Karlsson is totally washed up. He only got 22 points last season (Myers got 21). The only good part of his game is deteriorating fast. Even with EK at 50% I’m keeping Myers. If we didn't have QHs or Rathbone that's a deal worth taking. We do so we don't need him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 hour ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: On the off chance that OEL comes in and actually regains his Norris candidate form, it's gonna be real cathartic to rub some people's noses in it. Thank you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 2 hours ago, J-P said: I don't think anyone really knows which OEL we'll see with the Canucks. It's interesting though that both the Sedins and JB seems convinced he'll bounce back big time. They probably know some things we don't? If I'm guessing: OEL was really really unhappy both with the franchise, the state of the team and the way the coach wanted him to play. But maybe it's wishful thinking, we'll see... One thing is for sure... you'll never win the lottery, if you don't buy a ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 7 hours ago, N7Nucks said: Yeah and those leagues tend to have the same handful of teams that are good while the rest are just there for fun. At least with NHL they have artificial parity. I would a hard cap that is adjusted for tax would make more sense? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, IBatch said: Plus the inflated contracts will return right away. Look at some of the deals been made now - with flat cap looming for another 3-4 years lol. Couldn't imagine what TO and NYR would pay for some guys. It would hurt the league. Sucks though, as fans we sure had it good before salary disclosure, and even for a few years after. It ended up costing us Bure in the end. ... what i don't like is how 5 teams have a distinct advantage when building their teams over the rest of the league. High taxes and market BS (probably weather too), are making it harder and harder for Canadian teams to compete. 34.6 vs 53%...It's no surprise that 3 were in the final four two years ago - last season two. TB, give them credit at least they won twice. It's not a massive advantage but it is one for sure. Like being able to add a 8-10 million dollar player all thing being "equal". Canadian teams have the advantage of the 1.25 US dollar though, so it balances. Teams can’t pay 10 mil salaries and expect to compete for a Cup, regardless of which side of the border. Got to balance the team, which is especially apparent in series play - where the hockey is hard on and off pucks. I think the tax rates are mostly an excuse used to cover for players not wanting to play in hockey hotbeds (Canada) where they can’t live in anonymity. Edited August 21, 2021 by Alflives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Alflives said: Canadian teams have the advantage of the 1.25 US dollar though, so it balances. Teams can’t pay 10 mil salaries and expect to compete for a Cup, regardless of which side of the border. Got to balance the team, which is especially apparent in series play - where the hockey is hard on and off pucks. I think the tax rates are mostly an excuse used to cover for players not wanting to play in hockey hotbeds (Canada) where they can’t live in anonymity. Not really. Any player can buy property and goods in Canada if they want to...especially the Canadians which the league still has the majority of. It's a real thing...check out the gaven group tax calculator on google and put TB in and Vancouver and have some fun..or MTL, TO - then Seattle, Vegas, TB, Miami followed by Dallas. At least the Cali and NY teams have jock tax...but we are talking 10-15% - it matters. A 5.5 contract in TB is the same as over six in most Canadian cities. Stamkos, Kucherov and soon Point .... there is a reason why they want NMC... because their income would shrink significantly if they got traded. All players get US funds of course...cars, especially luxury cars, are also 30-40% cheaper in the US ... Edited August 21, 2021 by IBatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 4 hours ago, iinatcc said: Well I agree it's not the worst contract in the NHL but there does seem to be a pattern with the Arizona media that OEL isn't as good as Benning advertised. It does seem like, from the Arizona media, that OEL leaving is not so much "its was just time to move on and we will miss him (like Edler here)" it feels more like "so long and don't let the door hit you on your wait out (like Eriksson here)" type of parting. Granted the contract is a bit better for the Canucks because of the salary retention, maybe our expectations of OEL is too high compared of what he really brings to the table . He will probably still be a good Top 4 Dman for the Canucks but probably more of a #3 and #4 rather than a #1 or #2 I think his defensive game has been poor but offensive game has been consistently (good). This tells me that OEL's problems is unlikely to be hitting the age curve so soon. Whereas Eriksson has been poor offensively and defensively... well, let's say he's been very good at killing time. I think defence is all about being placed in a position to succeed. Edler under Torts was terrible and looked lost. I thought oh $hit this guy hit the age curve real fast, but he was only like 28 at the time... Then, Edler started to play better soon after Torts left. And just two years ago, he played some great hockey, maybe even better hockey than when he was 23 years old. OEL will need to bring more for sure but the coaches will also have to use him in the right way. I think we have the coaching staff here to do just that. I don't expect OEL to become Hedman but I think he will be good at getting the puck out of trouble and be instrumental in playing the transitional game the Canucks like to play under Green. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, IBatch said: Not really. Any player can buy property and goods in Canada if they want to...especially the Canadians which the league still has the majority of. It's a real thing...check out the gaven group tax calculator on google and put TB in and Vancouver and have some fun..or MTL, TO - then Seattle, Vegas, TB, Miami followed by Dallas. At least the Cali and NY teams have jock tax...but we are talking 10-15% - it matters. A 5.5 contract in TB is the same as over six in most Canadian cities. Stamkos, Kucherov and soon Point .... there is a reason why they want NMC... because their income would shrink significantly if they got traded. All players get US funds of course...cars, especially luxury cars, are also 30-40% cheaper in the US ... Nope. The biggest reason Loser teams like the LOSER LEAFS are losers is because they have 10 million dollar contracts. That’s why this OEL, Garland trade was so excellent for us. We have depth, and no Loser 10 million dollar contracts. The Loser Leafs have three! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alflives Posted August 21, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, khay said: I think his defensive game has been poor but offensive game has been consistently (good). This tells me that OEL's problems is unlikely to be hitting the age curve so soon. Whereas Eriksson has been poor offensively and defensively... well, let's say he's been very good at killing time. I think defence is all about being placed in a position to succeed. Edler under Torts was terrible and looked lost. I thought oh $hit this guy hit the age curve real fast, but he was only like 28 at the time... Then, Edler started to play better soon after Torts left. And just two years ago, he played some great hockey, maybe even better hockey than when he was 23 years old. OEL will need to bring more for sure but the coaches will also have to use him in the right way. I think we have the coaching staff here to do just that. I don't expect OEL to become Hedman but I think he will be good at getting the puck out of trouble and be instrumental in playing the transitional game the Canucks like to play under Green. OEL was the best player for the Coyotes in their bubble playoffs. He had the most hits, played the most hard and total minutes, and was .6 ppg. The guy is still great, and GMJB stole him from the desert (soon to be Huston) dogs. Edited August 21, 2021 by Alflives 2 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) On 8/19/2021 at 12:20 AM, Maddogy said: I think NHL and NHLPA should allow contracts to be terminated freely and mutually by team and player. If the contract is not working out for both sides, then the player should be allowed to pursue better fits elsewhere to take advantage of his limited career years in the NHL. To make it fair for small market teams, only contracts that pay out the same amount of money every contract year as its annual cap hits should be allowed such termination clause. Contracts that pay salary/bonus upfront are barred from such form of termination. That already exists - Kovalchuk and LA Kings parted ways after Kovalchuk got his bonus payment in December. He then signed with Montreal some two weeks later. The player has to be willing to give up his contract though. Edited August 21, 2021 by mll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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