[PGT] Edmonton Oilers at Vancouver Canucks | Oct. 30, 2021

[ShawnAntoski]

Just now, NHL97OneTimer said:

We've been spoiled over the years of seeing set plays from the Sedins.  A decade from the peak later, it's even more obvious how lucky we were to be entertained by them.

Yeah; and as a treat I enjoy watching other teams (mainly Vegas & TB) to see a well coached team compete.

[ShawnAntoski]

1 minute ago, RakuRaku said:

True... But eventually if things don't go well... Gotta shake things up!! Di Giuseppe has proven to be a real effective 2-way player who can offer more than Chiasson.... Klim whenever he's ready can fire up Podz!! Worth a try!! 

Chiasson is Greens project and he seems to not want to admit that this experiment is starting to wear out.

 

I hope he sticks with cause it will only be to his own demise or success; and so far, it has been the former.

Edited October 31, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[48MPHSlapShot]

17 minutes ago, stawns said:

It depends.......if they're committed to a style of play, it might just be a matter of roster change.

Even then, it still falls on the coach to communicate to the GM that a roster change is needed. I get the impression that Benning takes his coaches opinions pretty seriously, considering that Juolevi (Benning's highest pick) was shipped out for a 4C and a RD project likely because of Green, and Poolman was brought in at the request of Shaw. 

9 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Was a Schmidt a bad egg or did he just realize that he is not a fit in Vancouver after his experience with Vegas ?

To be be fair, and with the gift if hindsight, Schmidt was never a good fit here, as he was essentially brought in to replace Tanev, and he's just not a similar player to Tanev. I think that one is squarely on Benning.

[D-Money]

35 minutes ago, stawns said:

I wouldn't want Miller on my team.  

I'd love Miller on my team... For about a year. He was amazing his first year here. Started out gangbusters in Tampa too.

 

If this year continues to go sideways, were should get quite a haul for Miller, likely more than we paid for him. Because teams will know a rejuvenated Miller can be an absolutely elite player, and definitely a difference maker in the playoffs.

[Wolfgang Durst]

7 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

For all the talk the biggest issues are Petey and Brock not playing anywhere near to their potential.  Those two guys have been our best forwards in previous seasons and are nowhere near their potentials right now.  
 

Petey missing half a year and skipping training camp it makes sense he’s rusty.  Brock was fighting an injury and missed a few games to start the year.  The team is playing a lot better defensively compared to last season… but we need some guys scoring, starting with the top of the lineup.  Conversation around the team is drastically different with those two back around PPG where they usually are.

What about Tanner Pearson?

Do you consider Tanner Pearson a scoring winger?

Is Tanner Pearson from your perspective a legitimate top 6 winger ?

[KirkSave]

Our team in general is struggling for consistent efforts, trying to find chem with all the new roster pieces.

 

Petey has little to no confidence in his game...at the moment.

 

Green needs to stick to some lines for 3-4 games in a row now and allow the boys to try and gel. Can't keep putting everything in a blender.

 

Use these next 4 home games to build confidence and continuity from game to game. Demko should get all the starts as he gives us a chance to win each night. 

 

Calgary and Edmonton are off to hot starts, which does not bode well for us. VGK will turn it around eventually. As it stands, we need to keep pace with SJ. We can ill afford to drop too far back as the central has so many good teams to compete for the wild card spots. 

 

If this team isn't a few games above .500 by American Thanksgiving, we will be on course for another season without playoffs.

 

I believe we have the roster needed to make a serious push for the playoffs but my confidence in the coaching staff is waning.

[bigbadcanucks]

Canucks 2021-22 season looking a lot like the 2021 season so far.  Slow start, spotting others a lead in the Pacific. Gonna bet that the Canucks are going to start putting it together around Game 11 or 12, and then go on a run.  Canucks turned over almost 50% of their roster and playing a more conservative/defensive system, so it's going to take a little time (time which they have used most of) for the team to start firing on all cylinders.

 

I like the structure the team is playing with, but as the team has tried to implement changes to the system, they have not been playing with any quickness.  That will come as soon as the system becomes innate to the players.  Once that happens...watch out.  The Canucks will be a force.

[ShawnAntoski]

6 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Even then, it still falls on the coach to communicate to the GM that a roster change is needed. I get the impression that Benning takes his coaches opinions pretty seriously, considering that Juolevi (Benning's highest pick) was shipped out for a 4C and a RD project likely because of Green, and Poolman was brought in at the request of Shaw. 

To be be fair, and with the gift if hindsight, Schmidt was never a good fit here, as he was essentially brought in to replace Tanev, and he's just not a similar player to Tanev. I think that one is squarely on Benning.

Good point, since Schmidt or any from the Canucks had said anything about his reasons but his trade seems to had coincided with the re signing of Green & the trade with the Yotes.  Also, I agree that Green is very involved with personnel and Schmidt was not his type of player - hence of to Winterpeg for a 3rd.

Edited October 31, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[-DLC-]

Even though I'm ok with giving this a bit more time with Green at the helm, sometimes a coaching change shakes the players up as they carry the responsibility of that, to some degree, on their shoulders.  It becomes real, fast.  A wake up call.  You can coach players and tell players and show players but if they aren't listening do you just keep swapping them in/out?  If it flatlines?

 

When it moves away from "them" and their actions suddenly are impacting others in a way that means they lose their jobs, it can be significant.

 

I am not pushing for Green to go (yet), but I'm certainly open to it and feel that would be the next logical step if this continues NOT to work.  I also accept that wins don't have to be pretty and that we're close to NOT losing some of these games (I'm hesitant to say "winning them").  Momentum is HUGE in confidence and chemistry building so a few wins that the team can grind out would maybe help them to loosen up, relax and play with more creativity rather than hesitancy.  It can turn around quickly if....

 

But we have been pushing this if along for awhile.  Holding our breath, waiting for them to really gel and get some rhythm going.  It's hard to keep hanging on to that thread.

 

A great, convincing win will smash these conversations.  But only momentarily and it's got to be a more consistent show of success.  I still hang on to faith that they can turn it around...it's early and I'm not throwing in the towel.  But I also no longer am resistant to the Fire Green stuff because it may just be what has to happen soon.  Like it or not, you have to try something new.  We've tried new players.

 

I still believe this team can turn it around but it's getting harder to justify that stance.

[Wolfgang Durst]

interesting stats from our centers. Hey Kyle Gustafson here is an area that needs to be improved. Lots of work for you guys in the coaching staff department.

[Devron]

New coach would change the dynamic probably for the good at least in the short term but man we gotta put the puck in the net.

 

I’m actually fairly happy with the defensive side of our game. It’s improved quite a bit. The only thing I don’t like is our starts. We seem to really play well in periods 2 and 3.
 

There just seems to be no creativity in the O zone.

[-DLC-]

29 minutes ago, Warhawk said:

Good post and fair enough DLC.  I apologize for some of the rudeness in my post, I was a bit emotional last night not just because of the losses piling up but because of other life circumstances as well.  

 

Losing Toffoli, Markstrom and Tanev was huge, but Tanev especially for years was a trade chip we had to improve the future of the team but we kept him in hopes of playoff success that never really came and then he walked away for nothing.  Sure we didn't have many studs to exchange for picks but we also weren't really in position to always be throwing picks into deals that was never going to put us over the top like in the said Toffoli deal. Deals like Gagner for 3 years at an overpaid price were just dumb, he did nothing for us and we got nothing for him, Benning needed to find better value to flip at a later date.  Hamhuis walked, Richardson walked, Tanev and Markstrom walked, Mathias walked and then signed as a free agent and was flipped the following year etc At the end of the day, 7-8 years with Benning during a retooling phase you would think our team would have accumulated at least a few more draft picks than we gave away but I think right now it's dead even at the average number of picks we are given at 7 per year (8x7) Just using comparables from any team basically in history who goes into a phase like this, they accumulate young assets as much as possible by jettisoning older expiring contracts, signing one or two year free agents to then flip which we sometimes did but not nearly enough,  weaponizing open cap space etc.  Any team retooling will have more than average amount of picks during the phase but why not us?  

 

We rushed prospects out the door trying to improve the club and the facts speak for themselves we lost a lot of these deals.  Even small insignificant trades add up, using hindsight we often were on the side that threw in something extra for no good reason.  Yes hindsight is easy

 

I don't want to go through them all but 

3rd for Pedan,

Forsling for Clendenning,

2nds for Vey and Baertschi,

Bonino 2nd for Sutter 3rd,

McCann 2nd 4th for Gudbranson 5th,

3rd 4th for Pouliot, 

Madden, 2nd, 4th for Toffoli and a Virtanen resigning

Lind + Gadjovich (two 2nds) gone for nothing

MacEwan gone for nothing

1st + for Miller looks good on paper but were we ready? and Miller's attitude stinks imo

 

These are all losses.  That's a lot

 

Smaller deals too. Seeing Kassian last night irked me.  He had issues but so did an overpaid Prust and we still threw in a 5th in that deal.

Jensen was as good as Etem but we through in a 6th

5th for Larsen 

 

why were we tight against the cap every year, often having just 6 or 7 picks in a draft apparently remaining competitive but have tied for the 3rd worst winning percentage in the last 6-7 seasons? Why didn't we weaponize a single dollar during this time? Why was Benning trying to trade for P.K Subban?  Why did we luck out in 2018 for Quinny Bear and where would we be if that had not happened?

 

It's not looking good right now in year 8 and the cupboards are very bare.

 

 

 

 

No need to apologize...didn't find you rude at all.  You make some good points.

[ilduce39]

I don’t see the point in firing Green right now.
 

Rocky start with Petey/Hughes/Brock/Hamonic/Motte/Sutter was all beyond his control.  It’s going to take a bit for OEL and Garland to fully integrate into the lineup. Despite people’s impatience it is still very early going.
 

If the year is a flop, Benning is likely gone and you let the new GM pick his coach. In the meantime we may as well ride it out.  

[bishopshodan]

I think the real problem with our home stand is the new DJ.

 

Just terrible and obviously affecting the Nucks performance.

 

[ilduce39]

3 minutes ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

What about Tanner Pearson?

Do you consider Tanner Pearson a scoring winger?

Is Tanner Pearson from your perspective a legitimate top 6 winger ?

Pearson gets paid 3 mil, has always been streaky and a lot of lineups had him on the 3rd line based on the talent on the team.  He’s obviously seen as a good fit with Bo that keeps him in the top 6.

 

The guy will look like he’s done nothing then go and score 4 in 6 games.  That’s Pearson.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

4 minutes ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

interesting stats from our centers. Hey Kyle Gustafson here is an area that needs to be improved. Lots of work for you guys in the coaching staff department.

Dickinson was used more as a winger in Dallas so those numbers may be misleading  for him

[Darius]

2 minutes ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

would you trust Jim Benning to hire the "right headcoach" for this team?

I mean Willie Desjardins was a clear miss - even for fans it was clear that he isn't an NHL coach.

Travis Green with no NHL experience named as headcoach.

Im not sure, and I only say that because I think this team on paper is better than what it has shown.  If Benning choses a new coach and the team turns it around it proves that the current coach cant direct the team correctly.  If the team still flounders...well...thats when the axe comes out and Benning should go.  I think Benning deserves the benefit of the doubt because the roster looks like it can do better.

 

At the same time some other posters have made valid points.  What if EP and BB were playing at levels we saw them play at in the past, would they even be in this hole? What if we had sutter and Motte... Im not sure. At some point the what ifs and the excuses need to end and someone needs to be accountable. 

 

 

[King Heffy]

3 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

I don’t see the point in firing Green right now.
 

Rocky start with Petey/Hughes/Brock/Hamonic/Motte/Sutter was all beyond his control.  It’s going to take a bit for OEL and Garland to fully integrate into the lineup. Despite people’s impatience it is still very early going.
 

If the year is a flop, Benning is likely gone and you let the new GM pick his coach. In the meantime we may as well ride it out.  

Losing Gadjovich/MacEwen was within control and he kept useless plugs on the roster as well.  Chiasson and Hunt have been stinking up the joint and provide literally nothing of any value to the team.  The Baumgartner all-out collapse 5-on-5 is within his control, as he chose to not replace Baumer with an actual coach.  The pp still looks absolutely atrocious, trying the same thing over and over; that's also within his control.  The lines have no time to develop any chemistry before they're juggled into another stupid configuration, which, yet again, is under Green's control.

 

Replace this moron with someone who can at least set the lineup correctly and has a system that actually works.

[aliboy]

5 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

I don’t see the point in firing Green right now.
 

Rocky start with Petey/Hughes/Brock/Hamonic/Motte/Sutter was all beyond his control.  It’s going to take a bit for OEL and Garland to fully integrate into the lineup. Despite people’s impatience it is still very early going.
 

If the year is a flop, Benning is likely gone and you let the new GM pick his coach. In the meantime we may as well ride it out.  

Yep, give it some more time. I thought they started to find their game a bit in the 2nd last night, was good to see Brock score. 

[RWJC]

34 minutes ago, captainhorvat said:

 Can’t we just fire Green and put a magic bullet behind the bench? It will cost aquaman only $49.99 instead of paying millions for a coach.

Maybe he can pay in 4 easy instalments too?