[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[AC Readership]

14 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

BUT ASSET MANAGEMENT!!!!! RAWR!!!!!

 

11 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

If Miller leaves for nothing then grandpa needs to go back home and take up fishing. 

 

3 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

Does this team look like a cup contender?   
Id say heck no.  
So can we afford to lose our best player? 
Nope. 

We could trade him, take a step back, but gain a couple great future pieces. 
Or we could lose in the first round and lose him for nothing, and still end up taking that same step back, but with nothing to show. 
 

Losing him for nothing is a Benning move and just plain stupid management.  
They should know by now whether or not he wants to stay.  
They also know where their team stands compared to the others.  

I've been on the team mini rebuild train this whole offseason, but it seems like management has found it way tougher than they anticipated in regards to free up cap space. Other teams do not want our crap contracts (Dickinson, Poolman, Pearson, OEL, & Myers) unless money is retained & with draft picks added.

 

As Alf said, do you think Aqua will let management be sellers at the trade deadline if they're in playoff contention? That is the reason I think they're going all in this year looking at the current landscape of other teams in the division right now with the 3rd Pacific division playoff spot up in the air.

[R3aL]

How has Kadri not signed yet? 

[Vinny in Vancouver]

12 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

Yeah, stupid idiots supporting their favorite hockey team through thick and thin.

Yeah, almost as bad as those Leafs lunatics buying playoff tickets.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Vinny in Vancouver

[Ghostsof1915]

Just now, AC Readership said:

 

 

I've been on the team mini rebuild train this whole offseason, but it seems like management has found it way tougher than they anticipated in regards to free up cap space. Other teams do not want our crap contracts (Dickinson, Poolman, Pearson, OEL, & Myers) unless money is retained & with draft picks added.

 

As Alf said, do you think Aqua will let management be sellers at the trade deadline if they're in playoff contention? That is the reason I think they're going all in this year looking at the current landscape of other teams in the division right now with the 3rd Pacific division playoff spot up in the air.

If PA/JR get an offer they can't refuse at the deadline, then sure. But will another team be interested?

[stawns]

1 minute ago, AC Readership said:

 

 

I've been on the team mini rebuild train this whole offseason, but it seems like management has found it way tougher than they anticipated in regards to free up cap space. Other teams do not want our crap contracts (Dickinson, Poolman, Pearson, OEL, & Myers) unless money is retained & with draft picks added.

 

As Alf said, do you think Aqua will let management be sellers at the trade deadline if they're in playoff contention? That is the reason I think they're going all in this year looking at the current landscape of other teams in the division right now with the 3rd Pacific division playoff spot up in the air.

I highly doubt they are trying to move OEL, Myers and maybe not Pearson.  They're still trying to ice a competitive team and those three guys play significant roles and earn their contracts. 

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Trading Miller at the 2022 TDL wasn’t going to happen because we were in a playoff hunt.  Friedman posted a tweet a couple weeks before that TDL that Miller was taken off the market.  If similar circumstance happens at the 2023 TDL, then we won’t be trading Miller then either.  

JR even said the reason Miller wasn’t traded was because we were trying to make the playoffs. How would that be any different in 2023? 

[VegasCanuck]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Nope.  Our owner has to approve trades of certain players.  Zero chance he’s not involved with a Miller Trade at the TDL.  Zero chance JR could trade Petey or Hughes or Bo without owner approval.  Brian Burke said owner’s always have a couple players that he needed approval if a trade was in his plans.  

Zero chance that Aquilini approves trades, Rutherford would not have agreed to come out of retirement under those terms.

 

I find it incredible that fans think that Billionaire businessmen operate by micromanaging every decision. They don't have time to do that.

 

Aquilini went to Rutherford's home and asked him to run the team. If you think that either of these guys would accept the relationship that you're suggesting, sorry Alf, but you don't understand how business and managing down and up, works.

 

Rutherford answers ONLY to Aquilini on all the decisions he makes, but he makes them.

[Nucker 67]

I believe it was Allvin who said that the Canucks would not let a player (JT) walk for nothing and that they would get something for him if he wasn't re-signing.

 

We'll see.  I think that JT will ask for top dollar and term, because he's not playing in the US, which is where he may prefer to play anyway. 

 

Miller to COL for Byram and 1st (2023). Call it a day.

[VegasCanuck]

7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

If you actually think a billionaire is going to allow a 73 year old man to stop him from potentially making millions of dollars from playoff revenue in order to get a draft pick and a prospect at the trade deadline then you don’t really know how a billionaire runs their business. 
 

Aquilini will give JR a lot of slack, even allow him to spend millions to improve the team and the franchise in general. But playoff revenue is where the line is drawn. 

Sorry, but you have ZERO understanding of how this works, if you think that Aqualini as a business man cares about making the playoffs next season as opposed to developing a team and structure that makes the playoffs EVERY season. 

 

If we make the playoffs next season, he picks up a few million in revenue, but if we miss it again for another 3 seasons after, because he didn't trust the President of the team, to execute a plan that they both agreed on at point of hire, then he costs himself millions not only in subsequent years of playoffs, but also in the overall team valuation which he can leverage against for other business projects.

 

If the team is a consistent playoff team, then his overall asset value and borrowing power increases far outweigh the value of running hit and miss with the playoffs.

 

I can guarantee you, what you are proposing, is NOT how any guy in business who is successful, thinks.

 

You build a management team, you put trust in them to execute the plan you agree on and if they don't you fire them and find someone else. That is how it works if you plan to run a successful business, and that is what the Canucks are to Aqualini, they are a business with a significant appreciating value. That's what he likes, that's what banks like.

[higgyfan]

10 hours ago, RWJC said:

Only problem is PIT wants to deal out D right now. Any trade with 4 players coming our way might have to involve a couple Dmen. If we had to accept that the I’d ask for Marino and PO Joseph as the two. 

I don't understand this.  Can they not waive a player?  Joseph isn't even on their team salary cap roster.

[stawns]

7 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Sorry, but you have ZERO understanding of how this works, if you think that Aqualini as a business man cares about making the playoffs next season as opposed to developing a team and structure that makes the playoffs EVERY season. 

 

If we make the playoffs next season, he picks up a few million in revenue, but if we miss it again for another 3 seasons after, because he didn't trust the President of the team, to execute a plan that they both agreed on at point of hire, then he costs himself millions not only in subsequent years of playoffs, but also in the overall team valuation which he can leverage against for other business projects.

 

If the team is a consistent playoff team, then his overall asset value and borrowing power increases far outweigh the value of running hit and miss with the playoffs.

 

I can guarantee you, what you are proposing, is NOT how any guy in business who is successful, thinks.

 

You build a management team, you put trust in them to execute the plan you agree on and if they don't you fire them and find someone else. That is how it works if you plan to run a successful business, and that is what the Canucks are to Aqualini, they are a business with a significant appreciating value. That's what he likes, that's what banks like.

If there's one thing you can say about FA, it's that he cares about the team and the City .........he wants to bring a Cup to Vancouver.  He has every right to be involved in the organization, but I doubt he has "final say" on trades, he trusts those he hires.  That said, I'm sure he likes to be in the loop and part of the discussions, why wouldn't he?  He's the boss after all

[iinatcc]

32 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

Yeah, stupid idiots supporting their favorite hockey team through thick and thin.

There could be a compromise. I remember there was a Japanese Baseball team if people in attendance weren't satisfied with the game they get a refund. It was like some decades ago I think 

[DrJockitch]

Just now, iinatcc said:

There could be a compromise. I remember there was a Japanese Baseball team if people in attendance weren't satisfied with the game they get a refund. It was like some decades ago I think 

They have done that with movies, pay what you think it was worth, within a suggested range. 

[JM_]

39 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

But how much does a Myers replacement cost? 4 million at an absolute bare minimum? Guddy just got 4 million, so that seems like a very reasonable statement (if not incredibly optimistic) so we save 2 million? We can trade Pearson, and Dickinson, maybe we save another 6 millionish. Now we have 8 million to play with. I'm sure there is other corners we can cut off and contracts like Ferland are going to be coming off the contact. But much of that money will be coming off the books paying Horvat and Miller.

 

Where does the money come from to find a partner for Hughes? What about resigning Petey in a few years who we are hoping is looking for a 9 or 10 million dollar contract. We're also hoping we need to resign Kuz, Pod, Hog, all these players should be looking for raises if things go well.

 

They way I look at this team, is yes it's possible to keep the gang together. We can manage that. But I don't see us having the cap room to make significant improvements. If I felt this team was ready to compete for a cup as is then I would be on board with sticking with it doubling down on this roster. I don't, like at all. We have a ton of great parts, but after seeing some of the power house teams in the playoffs I don't see how the Canucks can compete with the backend currently constructed.

 

This conversation could even be different if we had prospects coming up that could move into these places. But we don't have that either. Maybe we get lucky and are able to resign a big name FA next year to fix the D. Possible that maybe Weegar, Severson, Sanheim etc, makes it to FA. Even then, will we have the cap flexibility to take a huge run at a top 4 D?

the Guddy deal was a unicorn. 

 

We get the money for the d upgrades because of our young winger depth, pretty much the only place we have depth at the moment. We have good potential for cheap ELCs and bridge deals with Klimovich, Karlsson, Lockwood, and maybe McDonough, and continue with good depth signings like Joshua (assuming that works out).

 

[Elias Pettersson]

10 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Sorry, but you have ZERO understanding of how this works, if you think that Aqualini as a business man cares about making the playoffs next season as opposed to developing a team and structure that makes the playoffs EVERY season. 

 

If we make the playoffs next season, he picks up a few million in revenue, but if we miss it again for another 3 seasons after, because he didn't trust the President of the team, to execute a plan that they both agreed on at point of hire, then he costs himself millions not only in subsequent years of playoffs, but also in the overall team valuation which he can leverage against for other business projects.

 

If the team is a consistent playoff team, then his overall asset value and borrowing power increases far outweigh the value of running hit and miss with the playoffs.

 

I can guarantee you, what you are proposing, is NOT how any guy in business who is successful, thinks.

 

You build a management team, you put trust in them to execute the plan you agree on and if they don't you fire them and find someone else. That is how it works if you plan to run a successful business, and that is what the Canucks are to Aqualini, they are a business with a significant appreciating value. That's what he likes, that's what banks like.

The Canucks have sucked for close to 10 years and yet the valuation of the team and the land the rink sits on has gone up by hundreds of millions of dollars.  Gillis tried to tell the owner we needed to rebuild and he got fired.  Linden also tried to tell the owner we needed a rebuild and he got fired for it as well.  Benning was the yes man and stuck around for 8 years even though our team was crap.  The only reason he got fired is because someone threw a jersey onto the ice and Aquilini was embarrassed beyond belief and couldn't keep Benning around even for one more day.

 

Yet you claim that in order for Aquilini to make money and keep his asset appreciating in value he needs to listen to the President.  He didn't listen to the President the last 2 times, what makes you think he is going to listen to him this time?

[JM_]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

The Canucks have sucked for close to 10 years and yet the valuation of the team and the land the rink sits on has gone up by hundreds of millions of dollars.  Gillis tried to tell the owner we needed to rebuild and he got fired.  Linden also tried to tell the owner we needed a rebuild and he got fired for it as well.  Benning was the yes man and stuck around for 8 years even though our team was crap.  The only reason he got fired is because someone threw a jersey onto the ice and Aquilini was embarrassed beyond belief and couldn't keep Benning around even for one more day.

 

Yet you claim that in order for Aquilini to make money and keep his asset appreciating in value he needs to listen to the President.  He didn't listen to the President the last 2 times, what makes you think he is going to listen to him this time?

isn't Aqua breaking the bank on a massive new front office a clear sign he's not concerned about short term money?

[mll]

10 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

I don't understand this.  Can they not waive a player?  Joseph isn't even on their team salary cap roster.

Joseph is now waiver eligible.  They have too many Ds.

[Kobayashi Maru]

To me either we are moving Miller this offseason, and if we don't we are signing him.  There is absolutely no situation that I see where we could trade him later in the season or at the deadline.  This team is all but guaranteed to be in the playoff hunt, and there is no scenario where you take one of your top forwards and move them before the deadline in that situation. 

 

With the performance he has (I still believe 99 points is the anomaly, but still a 65-75 point guy) and his passion, if you take that out of the room mid-season you could lose the room and the team could start to falter.  It would be a bad situation.  If he gets moved, it will be this offseason so that we go into camp with the players that are going to make a push.

 

That said, I still feel like the timing is getting worse.  They say it's a long offseason, but once the draft happens and the main UFAs start to sign, there is a smaller window, but I think it closes soon.  The pressure is on the management group to get this done I think, and I really hope they have this all mapped out as that window is closing.

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, JM_ said:

isn't Aqua breaking the bank on a massive new front office a clear sign he's not concerned about short term money?

True that.  So why not trade Miller at the 2022 deadline then?  Wasn't their a decent offer on the table from the Rangers?

 

JR said he didn't trade Miller because they were in a playoff hunt.  That sounds like a familiar theme no?

Edited July 15, 2022 by Elias Pettersson

[VegasCanuck]

11 minutes ago, stawns said:

If there's one thing you can say about FA, it's that he cares about the team and the City .........he wants to bring a Cup to Vancouver.  He has every right to be involved in the organization, but I doubt he has "final say" on trades, he trusts those he hires.  That said, I'm sure he likes to be in the loop and part of the discussions, why wouldn't he?  He's the boss after all

Agree with you. This is what managing up is. You have regular meetings and talk about the direction of the team and what you are doing and where it is going etc.

 

This is how I run my managers in business. They are in place because I trust them, we talk strategy at times and I call them with ideas, but I trust their decision making abilities to execute on the company plan and where we are going collectively.