[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Pure961089]

55 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Zibanejad and Hertl both got 8 year extensions.  They are both the same age as Miller.  Miller as a UFA will get a 9x7 year deal unless he drops to 70 points next year.

Now having seen Allvin’s philosophy on difference makers it seems highly unlikely Miller gets his 8 years.   They’re too expensive 

[Baratheon]

4 minutes ago, JM_ said:

that late first is someone who won't help us for 4-5 years. There's a lot that needs to happen between now and the next core group, I'd rather try to hang on to Miller even with the risk of losing out on that pick.

 

If we're talking a young RFA d or C, thats a different story. 

Not necessarily!  A late first or the player picked there can become part of a future package.  Or it could free up another pick/player to be used as a chip.

 

We have to start making moves that allow flexibility.  After we have said flexibility then we worry about not blowing it!

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

so filip forsberg whos going to be 29 at the start of his contract is not comparable? he got 8 years.. 

zibanejid is also 29 at the start of his contract and got 8 years

so Miller who's going to be 30 instead of 29 getting and asking for a 7 year contract is not comparable?

 

his agent is going to look at huberdeau and say he's not comparable he's going to say calgary was desperate? 

 

if Huberdeau got 10.5mil

JG got 9.75mil 

all on a max contract

 

you think Millers agent going to be like ya sure i'll take the lowest of the comparables out there.. and also the shortest term? he's either going to be looking at max money 9+ at 6 years or lowest comparable money 8.5 at max terms 7-8 years.

Alberta's tax rate is lower so that has to be taken into consideration in terms of total contract value. 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, JM_ said:

that late first is someone who won't help us for 4-5 years. There's a lot that needs to happen between now and the next core group, I'd rather try to hang on to Miller even with the risk of losing out on that pick.

 

If we're talking a young RFA d or C, thats a different story. 

Why do you keep insisting we are only getting a late first for Miller at the TDL?  You know that's not true.  Why keep pushing this false narrative?

 

If Miller is traded at the deadline he will return a 1st round pick, an A prospect and a current NHL roster player.  That's the going rate for top end elite players who are traded as a rental at the deadline.  Is the A prospect also guaranteed to not make the NHL?  Is the NHL roster player gonna get shipped to Abbotsford?

[Pure961089]

24 minutes ago, John McClane said:

Would Miller take a 6 years if the Canucks top load the deal?

 

Year(1) 11.5mil

Year(2) 11.5mil

No Trade first 2 years

Year(3) 8mil

Year(4) 7mil

Year(5) 6.5mil

Limited no trade years 3-4-5

Year(6) 3.5mil

no, no trade in final year

Total for example is 6 years 8Mil per

 

He gets peak Dollars for his peak years( in theory anyway).

I like this, giving him more money up front might sway him but that’s a steep cap hit for the 1st 2 years.  What if Kuzmenko turns into the second coming of Kucherov, then what?  No money to sign him.  Canucks need just in case money 

[aGENT]

11 minutes ago, JM_ said:

that late first is someone who won't help us for 4-5 years. There's a lot that needs to happen between now and the next core group, I'd rather try to hang on to Miller even with the risk of losing out on that pick.

 

If we're talking a young RFA d or C, thats a different story. 

Fyi, in 4-5 years, Petey and Hughes will be at their peaks and we should be making our biggest push at a cup.

 

Having a few solid young guys coming in on ELC's is not just helpful, but likely mandatory to make that run.

 

That's what the next couple years is for, to continue to build that organizational depth up. Again, that doesn't mean we can't be a "competitive" playoff team the next couple years, with our without Miller. If anything, the F depth they've assembled this year makes it all the more likely it's without.

 

We are not a contender now, nor are we likely to be one in Miller's few remaining peak years. We need depth. We needs our kids to get in their primes. And it would be made all the more difficult to be one by near doubling his current cap hit on a player bound to decline just as the rest of the team is hitting it's stride..

Edited August 7, 2022 by aGENT

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Alberta's tax rate is lower so that has to be taken into consideration in terms of total contract value. 

Yes Alberta's tax rate is 20.5% and BC's is 15%.  So there is a difference of just over $500k in tax savings.  So that means Miller would need to get $11 million to be at the same net income level as Huberdeau...

[wai_lai416]

30 minutes ago, John McClane said:

Would Miller take a 6 years if the Canucks top load the deal?

 

Year(1) 11.5mil

Year(2) 11.5mil

No Trade first 2 years

Year(3) 8mil

Year(4) 7mil

Year(5) 6.5mil

Limited no trade years 3-4-5

Year(6) 3.5mil

no, no trade in final year

Total for example is 6 years 8Mil per

 

He gets peak Dollars for his peak years( in theory anyway).

lol no and that deal will be rejected by the NHL lol there can't be more than 25% difference in salary in adjacent years nor can the lowest salary year be less than 60% of the highest.. 

 

and no way in hell he would take 8x6.. he's going to be asking in the 9+ if you are offering him max 6

[Gawdzukes]

4 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

Not necessarily!  A late first or the player picked there can become part of a future package.  Or it could free up another pick/player to be used as a chip.

 

We have to start making moves that allow flexibility.  After we have said flexibility then we worry about not blowing it!

Yeah I want a management group who looks at everything and makes good decisions on all things. Even if they are on smaller things I want them to be consistently smart. I don't want them throwing away 1st round picks because they're not exciting enough for some people, or you have to use patience for them to develop. It's no wonder our current state is what it is and yet some people want to keep repeating past mistakes.

 

Like you said once we create a little flexibility then we can make subjectable calls like that, but before is just foolhardy and risky with little foreseeable reward.

[steviewonder20]

41 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I'm not ignoring the prospect pool at all, just think it will take 4 years to restock. 

Now this statement I agree with

[Baratheon]

8 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Yeah I want a management group who looks at everything and makes good decisions on all things. Even if they are on smaller things I want them to be consistently smart. I don't want them throwing away 1st round picks because they're not exciting enough for some people, or you have to use patience for them to develop. It's no wonder our current state is what it is and yet some people want to keep repeating past mistakes.

 

Like you said once we create a little flexibility then we can make subjectable calls like that, but before is just foolhardy and risky with little foreseeable reward.

Yep.  That's why I was stoked when JR said that he wasn't able to knock out as many walls as he wanted in Abbotsford.  Something about the structural viability of the building.  It seems like a small silly thing but that's what I want!  

 

A guy who cares about every little detail right down to the walls in the farm teams building!

[steviewonder20]

As I said earlier today, whether Miller is our best, second best or third best player is moot. We can’t afford him, he’s not part of our core, he doesn’t fit with our timeline, and he may bring back valuable assets for our long-term goals, that few other players could provide. We are not re-signing him.

[JM_]

5 hours ago, Alflives said:

At some point we need to do a serious tank for several years.  I don’t mind going all in for Demko’s four years and then tanking, or tanking now.  If JR and his group think we can win with our young core guys then go all in now.  If they think our young core guys aren’t good enough to win with then start trading them for picks.  Either we sign Miller and tank in four years, or we trade him for picks and tank now.  No more middle of the pack craperolla.  

thats it Alf, thats exactly how I see this thing. The last 2 years of Demko's deal see us clear some major cap in Myers, Pearson and Dickie, perfect timing to make some final additions for two playoff runs.

[combover]

48 minutes ago, JM_ said:

that late first is someone who won't help us for 4-5 years. There's a lot that needs to happen between now and the next core group, I'd rather try to hang on to Miller even with the risk of losing out on that pick.

 

If we're talking a young RFA d or C, thats a different story. 

Boeser was a late first. Demko a second 

jarred McCann late first 

I’m just against losing players for free for no reason.

we have no reason to lose a player for nothing right now. 
We aren’t a cup contender keeping Jt doesn’t change that losing him for nothing does nothing to help us now or in 2-5 years . 
that late first round pick might be the barging chip or asset that can be included in a deal to get the RHD we’ve needed. 

I curious what do you think we gain by holding onto him and watching him leave for nothing? 

Edited August 7, 2022 by combover

[JM_]

38 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Why do you keep insisting we are only getting a late first for Miller at the TDL?  You know that's not true.  Why keep pushing this false narrative?

 

If Miller is traded at the deadline he will return a 1st round pick, an A prospect and a current NHL roster player.  That's the going rate for top end elite players who are traded as a rental at the deadline.  Is the A prospect also guaranteed to not make the NHL?  Is the NHL roster player gonna get shipped to Abbotsford?

how is it a false narrative? do you think Arizona is going to trade us a top 5 pick for him? 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, combover said:

Boeser was a late first. Early Demko a second 

jarred McCann late first 

I’m just against losing players for free for no reason.

we have no reason to lose a player for nothing right now. 
We aren’t a cup contender keeping Jt doesn’t change that losing him for nothing does nothing to help us now or in 2-5 years . 
that late first round pick might be the barging chip or asset that can be included in a deal to get the RHD we’ve needed. 

I curious what do you think we gain by holding onto him and watching him leave for nothing? 

playoff experience for the young guys is the benefit. That time is dog years for players. 

 

I agree with you in general principle about collecting assets. Sometimes tho the asset value back isn't all that great, and other things like playoff experience matters as much. At least thats how I see it. 

[DeNiro]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Zibanejad, Hertl, Huberdeau and Gaudreau are all 29 years old this year.  All of them...

Lol. Except Huberdeau and Gaudreau are not comparables, not even close.

 

Hertl is 28 and Zibanejad will be 29 when his deal kicks in.

 

I think you’re missing the part where Miller will be 30 when his deal kicks in. One year makes a big difference when talking about an 8 year contract. That’s one extra year where he’ll likely be performing well under his contract value.

 

Anything else?

[Alflives]

Would we be able to dumperoo Miller for draft picks and clear all his cap?  Let’s do that!

Get off that park bench JR; it’s time to get ‘er done! 

[Alflives]

Just now, DeNiro said:

Lol. Except Huberdeau and Gaudreau are not comparables, not even close.

 

Hertl is 28 and Zibanejad will be 29 when his deal kicks in.

 

I think you’re missing the part where Miller will be 30 when his deal kicks in. One year makes a big difference when talking about an 8 year contract. That’s one extra year where he’ll likely be performing well under his contract value.

 

Anything else?

Yup.  July 1, 2023 Miller will get a six year x 7.5 mil deal.  That’s all the guy is worth at 30 friggin’ years old.  He’s an idiot if he thinks he’s getting more than JR is offering right now.  

[DeNiro]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

I 100% guarantee that Miller and his agent disagree on that point

That’s nice.

 

The market has already shown the rest of the league doesn’t value him the same way his agent might.

 

If there were teams that valued him that much that they were willing to do an 8 year deal, a trade would have already happened. It hasn’t because teams are scared away by him  and his agents ask which isn’t based on his real value, rather one good season.