[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

Do we really want that contract on the books when Miller is 38yo?    Let me guess, Miller will be one of those rare players who is as productive at 38 as they are at 29 - who is that again........? 

My grade one math teacher is groaning from the great beyond.

[Fanuck]

9 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

My grade one math teacher is groaning from the great beyond.

Am I missing something?  Admittedly, I just drop in/out of this thread randomly. 

Miller is currently 29yo and having a career-year.  He is signed for one more year meaning he'll be 30 when his current deal expires.   

It was suggested we re-sign him for 8 years meaning he'll be 38 if he played out that full contract here.

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, mll said:

It's Rutherford that said his preference is to have fast skaters and thinks Vancouver are lacking.  Also says that to chose between size or speed, his preference is speed.

Yes i heard him say that too.   Ive watched a lot of amazing players, that had other skill-sets, make the HHOF.    It takes a village.    Also seen some really fast guys on our own team, not make the HHOF or even get into a tier below.  Hedican comes to mind.   Raymond is more recent.   Zippy fast is fun to watch but there isn't many guys that have the other tools all-time even, that make it work.    Federov, Bure, Gartner, McDavid... who else was blistering fast that's made the HHOF or is going to on their speed?   AP is slow.   Hedman is about as fast as Myers.  

[Provost]

1 hour ago, EP Phone Home said:

First and foremost this has to be the area that management needs to address. And you help address some of that with the Miller return. Surely can’t be as bad as what we started with this season. Just scorched earth on our right side. *shudders*

Hahahahahahahahaha

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

Am I missing something?  Admittedly, I just drop in/out of this thread randomly. 

Miller is currently 29yo and having a career-year.  He is signed for one more year meaning he'll be 30 when his current deal expires.   

It was suggested we re-sign him for 8 years meaning he'll be 38 if he played out that full contract here.

Sorry me too. Nothing wrong with your math at all Fanuck. I was more just going through all the numbers in my head

 

non playoff team +

50-60 million dollar contract +

horrid RD +

swiss cheese bottom 6 +

zero capspace +

38 years old at conclusion of contract =

bad math

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, EP Phone Home said:

First and foremost this has to be the area that management needs to address. And you help address some of that with the Miller return. Surely can’t be as bad as what we started with this season. Just scorched earth on our right side. *shudders*

A face only a mother in denial could love 

[bishopshodan]

Keep Miller.

See what we can get for Bo.

Add some fibre and a pinch of spice. 

Let simmer for a year or two.

 

Cook up a cup.

[Bure_of_94]

4 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Keep Miller.

See what we can get for Bo.

Add some fibre and a pinch of spice. 

Let simmer for a year or two.

 

Cook up a cup.

Love Miller... but I’d dangle him to see what’s available. And my reasoning is that he’ll be 30 at the time of his new contract. Everyone is reporting that their side is looking at 8years anywhere from 8-9.5 is being speculated. I think that he’s the type of player that will bring it until 34, then start slowing down like everyone else and the back 4 years could look horrible. 
 

I think a 4 year deal could be possible but it may cost us 11-12/season and I’m not sure we’re in position to do that. 
 

 Those are my reasons for shopping him, but if you could get him at 4-5 years at 7.5-8/season, I’d definitely be on board for keeping him here. 

[bishopshodan]

2 minutes ago, Bure_of_94 said:

Love Miller... but I’d dangle him to see what’s available. And my reasoning is that he’ll be 30 at the time of his new contract. Everyone is reporting that their side is looking at 8years anywhere from 8-9.5 is being speculated. I think that he’s the type of player that will bring it until 34, then start slowing down like everyone else and the back 4 years could look horrible. 
 

I think a 4 year deal could be possible but it may cost us 11-12/season and I’m not sure we’re in position to do that. 
 

 Those are my reasons for shopping him, but if you could get him at 4-5 years at 7.5-8/season, I’d definitely be on board for keeping him here. 

Agreed.

Brass wouldn't be doing their job if they don't find out the value of all our players.

 

If we can bring back a kings ransom for JT, for sure move that stud. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Bure_of_94 said:

Love Miller... but I’d dangle him to see what’s available. And my reasoning is that he’ll be 30 at the time of his new contract. Everyone is reporting that their side is looking at 8years anywhere from 8-9.5 is being speculated. I think that he’s the type of player that will bring it until 34, then start slowing down like everyone else and the back 4 years could look horrible. 
 

I think a 4 year deal could be possible but it may cost us 11-12/season and I’m not sure we’re in position to do that. 
 

 Those are my reasons for shopping him, but if you could get him at 4-5 years at 7.5-8/season, I’d definitely be on board for keeping him here. 

Funny if you look at what the Sedins got after two decent good years ... 10.5%ish of the cap because they were young - but not a term deal either.   Then they got another one after that we really shouldn't have signed.   If Miller wants to sign for 4-5 years i'd have no issue with a similar cap hit.    We shouldn't have to mitigate it over 7-8 years.   Let someone else deal with it in that case.   5-6 years max.  Around 8.5. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by IBatch

[aGENT]

5 hours ago, HKSR said:

Fair, but if it's just about the total dollar amount, then why not $60M over 8 years.  That's a $7.5M AAV.  More than manageable.  In 8 years, that's probably the equivalent of a $6M cap hit in today's dollars.

 

5 hours ago, JM_ said:

well,  I guess we'll find out in 4 months. Why couldn't it be over 8 years btw? that brings it down to 7.5

 

8 years is too damn long.

 

 

If we could manage to get him to sign at a ~$15m discount, I'd prefer $10m x 5 or even $8.33 x 6 personally. And even 6 is too damn long for my liking.

[Smashian Kassian]

Posted this in another thread, figured I'd bring it over to the right spot;

 

17 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

We absolutely can't take steps back into a 're-build' & have the locker room disgruntled again like after the Markstrom/Tanev/Toffoli departures. And we also cannot let Miller walk for nothing.

 

If they sign the Zibanejad deal its going to be an anchor at some point. I think you either need to get something that's favorable for the team, or move him while his value is still sky high - that means a resolution in the summer. I'm not sold trading him is the best bet but we also gotta be wary about saddling ourselves with a boat anchor & limiting our window.

 

I agree with aGENT that trading him =/= rebuild. If you get a young NHL ready player in the deal then things can look pretty good very quickly. Look at how quickly Suzuki materialized for MTL, or how Tuch/Theodore were impact players for Vegas right away. (Krebs in Buffalo is looking the same). 

 

If we trade Miller getting that type of piece is paramount, then the other assets can be developed as futures or flipped. It can't be just lottery tickets that leave us 2-3 years away. 

 

[Coconuts]

18 hours ago, mll said:

Satiar Shah says that it's certain that Vancouver will make an offer to extend Miller but they have a number in mind and won't go beyond.  He can't see them paying the Zibanejad deal.  He believes their offer will start with a 7 over 6-7 years and overall value won't exceed 50M.

 

If that turns out to be true he's not staying. But if gives them the "we made an offer" card to play.

 

10 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Got a feeling Miller won't be accepting any kind of discounted offer.  His agent will want him to make top dollar.  I know he's the Canucks best player this season (aside from Demko), but is that really saying much? The Canucks are a poor non-playoff team, again. They have been for years. Someone has to be the best player on that sinking ship.  And I can't get over that he'll be 30 when his new, expensive contract starts - if they re-sign him. 

 

Please don't re-sign Miller.  Instead, get Petey, Podz and Hoglander some younger, faster help, and improve the D. 

 

 

He doesn't owe us &^@# all, we likely aren't getting a discount. This is third year as a Canuck, we're his third team, he doesn't have roots here. He could walk to UFA and pick his destination while getting similar money, likely jumping on board with a team that's further along to boot. 

 

I wouldn't sign him, even a deal taking him to 36 is too long for my liking. 

 

9 hours ago, JM_ said:

yes, for 2 reasons:

- he still has one more year on his current deal, and a lot can happen. One knee injury and he loses that value anyway. 

- bonus money, if he gets a front loaded deal and with a high bonus structure it helps negate the lower AAV for the end years of the deal. Plus it makes it more buyout proof for him.

 

Is that what we want, debatable, but that would help lower the AAV imo.

 

He has to play next year at a very high level again, hope not to get injured and hope he gets offered more than $50 million guaranteed. 

I don't really think that'll matter because I don't see the Miller bit getting beyond this offseason. Going into next season with Miller unsigned would be a season long media headache waiting to happen, it'd constantly be discussed and both sides would consistently be asked about it. It'd be a distraction. 

 

Going into next season with Miller unsigned or not traded is a problem. Going into next season and doing just well enough that we're unwilling to trade him at the deadline would be a disaster. Losing him for nothing via UFA would be worst case scenario. We simply do not have the organizational depth to lose him for nothing. 

 

Miller and his agent have all the leverage, why wouldn't they look to capitalize on his career season this offseason? If the Canucks are going to get him signed it'll almost certainly be while he has the leverage. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Coconuts

[J-23]

Miller for Lysell, Debrusk and a pick.

 

Hogs - Petey - Lysell would be a nasty line.

[IBatch]

17 hours ago, D.B Cooper said:

I agree with this post, but the Boeser comment made me LOL.  
The guy has 1 good year and everyone keeps thinking him sucking this year is the one off. 
He has shown NOTHING that says even a poor mans version of Hull or LR is possible. 
He is closer to the 3rd line than 1st these days, and a LOT of it has to do with his speed, or server lack of it…..

 

Guess your reading comprehension is a little off ... that said i'd argue that his rookie year he absolutely was looking like a guy who could score 40 plus in his prime.    Last season he was good too, but that doesn't matter anymore because now he's a lame duck that can't skate.    Recency always plays into contracts, we'd be taking a risk keeping him but it's not nearly as dire as some have made it out to be.    All depends on the cap hit.   To me he's earned a four or five year deal, in the 24-25 million range and that's about it.     He either sign an offer similar to that, or take the team to arbitration (or be taken to arbitration by the team).    Mediator likely rewards him a one year deal - although it could be two.     

 

Another team would take a gamble with him on a trade basis, unfortunately the return won't be that good either - again recency.   If he was the 35/35 sort of guy we thought he'd be by now, we both wouldn't want to trade him and well if we did we'd be getting something good back.    I'm not as quick to write guys off entering their prime years as others i suppose.     On another team, i for one, wouldn't be shocked to see him get his mojo back.   Maybe even this one.   Why the 4-5 year deal only.    And even that's a little backward visioned.   No way he won't get a deal that's more then Garlands from any team.  

 

By the way - the "experts" had Brock in the 70-75 point range each of his years after his rookie season.    The guys that are paid to project points each season.  Not us as fans.   Next year i'm sure that's going to drop to the 50-60 point range given how bad he's played.    And maybe lower the following year.   It happens - but it's not the usual course a player has when they break out like he did his rookie year.  At this point he should get paid like a 50-60 point player, and is going to be.     Whether it's the right thing for us?  Who knows.   But i find it pretty distasteful how fans quickly change their coat and start bashing guys they used to like when they don't perform. 

[Ghostsof1915]

Why anyone would want to trade JT Miller is beyond me. 

He's easily going to get 90 points this season. You don't find players like that. 

Honestly trade Boeser for what we can get. 

Move some other bodies and get picks. Because you rarely get a good deal on trading for a right handed d-man, or any good defenders in general. 

[Coconuts]

On 4/8/2022 at 7:19 PM, Ghostsof1915 said:

Why anyone would want to trade JT Miller is beyond me. 

He's easily going to get 90 points this season. You don't find players like that. 

Honestly trade Boeser for what we can get. 

Move some other bodies and get picks. Because you rarely get a good deal on trading for a right handed d-man, or any good defenders in general. 

You answered your own question. Lot of folks have concerns regarding how he'll age in comparison to the contract he'll be able to get. He's a top player this season, recency bias has historically played into contracts, but he'll also be 30 years old when his contract kicks in. 

 

He will not come cheap, he will get long term, and him and his agent hold all the leverage during negotiations this offseason given the season he's had. 

 

You don't have to want to trade him, but fans aren't the only ones with concerns. Hansen, a guy who actually played in the league and for the Canucks and who typically has some good takes, had this to say. 

 

 

 

 

[Me_]

4 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

You answered your own question. Lot of folks have concerns regarding how he'll age in comparison to the contract he'll be able to get. He's a top player this season, recency bias has historically played into contracts, but he'll also be 30 years old when his contract kicks in. 

 

He will not come cheap, he will get long term, and him and his agent hold all the leverage during negotiations this offseason given the season he's had. 

 

You don't have to want to trade him, but fans aren't the only ones with concerns. Hansen, a guy who actually played in the league and for the Canucks and who typically has some good takes, had this to say. 

 

 

 

 

Hansen never won anything and wishes he was as good as Miller on an off day.

[Coconuts]

8 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Hansen never won anything and wishes he was as good as Miller on an off day.

Maybe, but he's also an NHL player who played 626 regular season games so he's been around the game, players, management, and locker rooms long enough to know what he's talking about. 

 

Whether he's won anything at the NHL level or not doesn't diminish anything he said. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Coconuts

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Hansen never won anything and wishes he was as good as Miller on an off day.

Remind us when you get drafted essentially as the last overall player in the 9th round of the NHL draft and manage multiple 20+ point seasons over a 13 season, 626 game, 256 point career about how never winning anything means you're not qualified to speak about something you lived and breathed every day for over a decade.

 

Then after you're done; let us know how Hansen is wrong in his statement about cap term and AAV

Edited April 10, 2022 by Warhippy