[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Harold Drunken]

37 minutes ago, gurn said:

Funny, because Petey, up until recently, has been playing and scoring like he didn't care if he ever won a game.

And if they want to win now- I'd suggest moving both of them to a team that could win it all, now.

Funny, because Bo also mentioned in the same interview he wants to win here. In the same interview, he thought the team was close and needed some depth pieces to contend. Bo isn't going anywhere, that's painfully obvious. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by CJ44

[Boudrias]

42 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

This is part of the reason I think Miller, if he wants to stay,.  Is worth so much more to the Canucks .  He is the perfect vet / presence/ leader that this team has missed for many years..   and will be able to leave his fingerprints of intensity on many others to come.

There is no one in the room with that same enthusiasm if he is moved.… and thinking it will come back in a trade is fantasy.

I am on board with Miller on an extension if it is done prior to free agency. Failing that he has to be traded. I prefer they move Boeser before Miller. I think the minimum on Boeser is $7.5 mil which is more than he is worth right now. Maybe the new VP of capology takes Miller and family to Macdonalds to feel them out on an extension. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Boudrias

[kanucks25]

28 minutes ago, JM_ said:

yup its not easy. As far as incentive goes, I would guess those come down to some basic personal questions. Does his family want to make a life here? does he think he can win here? does his family have more access to help at home in NY? lots of legitimate reasons for JT to want to move on, or stay. 

 

It's hard to say from the outside but just based on his general attitude and some of his on-ice shenanigans, I don't know how married he is to Vancouver.

 

I think if a team down in the States that has a more "passive" market and a better team gives him a good offer, he would consider that.

 

I'm not saying it's a sure thing that he bolts but I also can't see him signing early.

[JM_]

9 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

It's hard to say from the outside but just based on his general attitude and some of his on-ice shenanigans, I don't know how married he is to Vancouver.

 

I think if a team down in the States that has a more "passive" market and a better team gives him a good offer, he would consider that.

 

I'm not saying it's a sure thing that he bolts but I also can't see him signing early.

well, thats why JR gets the big bucks. Im sure things we=ill be clear even after one meeting. 

[rekker]

42 minutes ago, JM_ said:

well, thats why JR gets the big bucks. Im sure things we=ill be clear even after one meeting. 

Excacty. If Miller wants to extend and it's not a stupid monies, stupid term contract, go for it. Otherwise, this could actually be one of those trades that is looked back on as a major turning point for the franchise. This team needs a lot of parts still. Miller, love him, but if he is traded for some of those pieces, you do it when his value is sky high. Edit. I'm not opposed to trading BB as well if some of the incoming pieces from a  JT trade replace BB's skill set. Maybe some cap hit could be saved as well and added to the D. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by rekker

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, HOFsedins said:

What Im trying to say is, if you trade Miller now, that will affect resigning Petey and Bo guranteed. Bo has put up with alot of losing and us trading away our top player right now is not going to help.

So we just keep him for next year and then he walks for free?

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, KyGuy123 said:

Lundell and Lafrenier are names we should not expect at all, adding to them is insane. 
People need to temper their expectations.

Rags would be happy to dump Laugh on us in a Miller deal.  We are too smart though.  Chytil is way better, and not a bustaroo bonsai like Laugh. 

[HOFsedins]

2 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

So we just keep him for next year and then he walks for free?

He is under contract for 1 more year and why can't we resign him and look to trade someone like Boeser?

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, Maniwaki Canuck said:

The "doesn't plan to stay here" scenario is the one that would definitely justify moving him, and there are some indications it might be true.   He's American, been through some covid issues with the team here, there are tax and border issues, and he'll have all kinds of options as an FA in a bit over a year.  From his point of view, staying here might not be the top option.  If we can believe Serevalli, it sounds like management has discussed these issues with Miller's camp and are trying to make a deal that will maximize return for Vancouver and minimize disruption for Miller.  That would be the right way to handle it. 

As for the "window" part of it, it's impossible to know in advance exactly when that would be.  Some guys peak in their mid-20s, others in their early 30s.  Just look at the difference between Hughes and Pettersson right now.  If Petey were on the same developmental curve as Hughes, our window would already be open.  We hope Hoglander and Podkolzin are going to improve their finishing and not just drive play, but who knows?  Cup-winning teams do tend to be veteran-heavy but some (Chicago 2010) were less so and all had a mix of ages.  Timing of career years and injuries play a big role:  there's more than a bit of luck in that.  If your team is declining you might want to take your chances and re-load, but if it's on the rise, that's a pretty big risk.  

Miller is a franchise player.  Moving him voluntarily would be a mistake:  you typically have about a 10% chance of winning or breaking even on those trades.  But if your hand is forced, you do it, and that could well be the situation.  If it happens, we'll still come out ahead of the 1st and 3rd he cost us so I'm going to try to stay zen about it and enjoy watching him play for us while he's still here.  But as a fan with an emotional investment in the team, you have to love a guy like Miller.  His fingerprints are all over the team, particularly the heart they've shown in the last couple of games he's been out of the lineup.  Let's hope that holds up if and when he's gone for good.

This is what it really comes down to for me. If he's not in the long term plans, for whatever reason, you HAVE to maximize his trade value. That means trading him this spring. The "why" doesn't really matter.

 

You can't know anything with certainty but generally speaking, players primes run from roughly 25'ish to 30'ish, with some likely still highly productive years before and after that, but those are the 'peak' years. And players, generally speaking, start rapidly declining somewhere between 32-34 (other than rare outliers).

 

For the Canucks young core, that prime is roughly 2-7 years from now until the young  guys are in/entering their primes and before older guys (Horvat, Demko etc) likely start falling off. By all means, the right management moves can extend that a bit in either direction, but that's roughly the framework. Is it impossible to know "exactly"? Of course it is. But you plan for the probabilities and you adjust from there.

 

1 hour ago, HOFsedins said:

What Im trying to say is, if you trade Miller now, that will affect resigning Petey and Bo guranteed. Bo has put up with alot of losing and us trading away our top player right now is not going to help.

I don't think it guarantees anything of the sort. There's no reason this team can't be near/just as competitive, as soon as next year, with the right return, and subsequent moves. All while having an also far better long term outlook as well.

 

Get the much bandied about Chytil, Schneider and first +/- package and sign one of Paul/Tierney/Sturm this summer and we're well on our way. If Schneider becomes top 4 caliber sooner than later, even more so.

[flickyoursedin]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Rags would be happy to dump Laugh on us in a Miller deal.  We are too smart though.  Chytil is way better, and not a bustaroo bonsai like Laugh. 

I would love it too! Still loads of potential for Lafreniere where on the other hand Chytil is looking more like a 3rd line center. They have the same amount of points right now and Chytil is 3 years older. Really thought you’d just call them both bustaroo’s so it’s weird that you’d choose Chytil over Laf. People need to cut some prospects a little slack the kid is only 20 years old. Take advantage of the guy in charge of the NYR he just traded Buchnevich who is a point per game for bottom 6 forward Blias and a 2nd. 

[Alflives]

Just now, flickyoursedin said:

I would love it too! Still loads of potential for Lafreniere where on the other hand Chytil is looking more like a 3rd line center. They have the same amount of points right now and Chytil is 3 years older. Really thought you’d just call them both bustaroo’s so it’s weird that you’d choose Chytil over Laf. People need to cut some prospects a little slack the kid is only 20 years old. Take advantage of the guy in charge of the NYR he just traded Buchnevich who is a point per game for bottom 6 forward Blias and a 2nd. 

Rags can keep their high picks (Laugh and Crappo).  Two terrible players.  

[flickyoursedin]

49 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Rags can keep their high picks (Laugh and Crappo).  Two terrible players.  

I’d prefer Lafreniere over the two because I feel he will be better and I could still see him being a ppg winger. If they’re going to sell low you could steal him now maybe. Still so much potential in both them I don’t think they’d like to include either in a Miller Proposal they’d rather go Kravtsov + then Laf or Kakko I’m sure.

[Coconuts]

5 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Good answer. Diplomatic, doesn't hurt his negotiating power, and says enough but very little. 

 

Didn't close the door on a Miller trade at all, just kicked the ball further down the road. 

 

5 hours ago, CJ44 said:

I agree for sure, Miller's value is super high so he makes the most sense to move....Boeser is up for contract renewal and for me that's the biggest question, how much does he want and can we afford it...I guess that will decide what the team does. 

It's not just what he wants and whether we can afford it at this point, though those things do matter. It's also a question of what Rutherford and co think we need and how we get it. Despite how he's produced in the past, his performance this season has most certainly tanked his value a bit. 

 

I question how much Rutherford could get for him at this point, as a pending RFA with a large qualifying offer. We'd get more for a Boeser signed to a reasonable contract than a Boeser surrounded by financial uncertainty, who another team would have to negotiate with. Miller certainly gets you more, no question. We could get some value for him, certainly, but how much? You certainly aren't getting the futures you'd get for Miller by trading Boeser. 

[Harold Drunken]

23 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Good answer. Diplomatic, doesn't hurt his negotiating power, and says enough but very little. 

 

Didn't close the door on a Miller trade at all, just kicked the ball further down the road. 

 

It's not just what he wants and whether we can afford it at this point, though those things do matter. It's also a question of what Rutherford and co think we need and how we get it. Despite how he's produced in the past, his performance this season has most certainly tanked his value a bit. 

 

I question how much Rutherford could get for him at this point, as a pending RFA with a large qualifying offer. We'd get more for a Boeser signed to a reasonable contract than a Boeser surrounded by financial uncertainty, who another team would have to negotiate with. Miller certainly gets you more, no question. We could get some value for him, certainly, but how much? You certainly aren't getting the futures you'd get for Miller by trading Boeser. 

That's valid for sure, I'm only speculating based on what Boeser's qualifying offer would have to be..Boeser is obviously younger with more upside at this point. As you said really depends what Rutherford's vision and direction is.

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, HOFsedins said:

He is under contract for 1 more year and why can't we resign him and look to trade someone like Boeser?

Does he want to re-sign here, I haven't heard anything one way or another? Big if though imo.

[rekker]

1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said:

Does he want to re-sign here, I haven't heard anything one way or another? Big if though imo.

That's a toss up. He's playing the best hockey of his career. One has to wonder if he likes being here, being the Alpha Dog. If I'm a betting man though I'd think he wants to chase a cup in his home country. I can respect either decision and if he does decide he doesn't want to re-sign, I would still commend him for giving his all while here.

[EternalCanuckFan]

2 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Does he want to re-sign here, I haven't heard anything one way or another? Big if though imo.

I agree that it's a huge if.  Wanting to re-sign here is one thing.  Wanting to re-sign here at the $ value that makes sense for the Canucks is another. 

 

There is a lot of risk with holding onto Miller unless the team is absolutely convinced that they want to build around him and the rest of the core.  If they do, then do they want to run Miller and Pettersson as the top 2 Cs?  Does that push Horvat out?

 

Miller might keep up his play well into his 30s but there's also a good chance that he doesn't.  Maybe that issue is overblown but it's a real one. Miller will already be 30 when his current contract is up.  Will Miller insist on a 7- or 8-year (the latter only with the Canucks) deal?  Even if the Canucks are willing to do that, how will that affect his cap hit?  Can they afford to keep a potentially $7.5M+ cap hit on the books for that long, especially for a player who may well decline for a good period of that time?

[grandmaster]

5 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Does he want to re-sign here, I haven't heard anything one way or another? Big if though imo.

This is just it. We have no idea. Only the guys in the inner circles would know. If he wants to stay, I would do everything in my power to keep him here. Other than Hughes and Demko, Miller is our top three most valuable. I don’t care if we have to let go Brock, Bo or Petey. Miller is a legit top end power forward not seen since we had Bert. I’m not worried about his age. He is in his prime and seems to get better every year. Scoring wingers can be replaced but not power forwards with his leadership qualities. 

[Gawdzukes]

4 minutes ago, rekker said:

That's a toss up. He's playing the best hockey of his career. One has to wonder if he likes being here, being the Alpha Dog. If I'm a betting man though I'd think he wants to chase a cup in his home country. I can respect either decision and if he does decide he doesn't want to re-sign, I would still commend him for giving his all while here.

I think he likes it here to some degree but I agree I'm having trouble imagining him being happy with spending the last 10 years of his career in Canada. Yeah great player either way I wouldn't blame him if he wants to play in a big US market or closer to home or something.

[grandmaster]

27 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I think he likes it here to some degree but I agree I'm having trouble imagining him being happy with spending the last 10 years of his career in Canada. Yeah great player either way I wouldn't blame him if he wants to play in a big US market or closer to home or something.

The good thing about Vancouver though is that it is the 3rd largest city in Canada. An American who is from an urban city would like that.

 

- milder weather

- less violent crime

- geographic options; mountains to ski, oceans to fish/boat, beaches to lay, etc

- wide selection of restaurants, casinos, bars/pubs, night clubs, concerts and other entertainment amenities 

- border city that makes flights in and out of the US easier with more carrier options and less travel time

 

Other considerations like school options and nicer neighborhoods are important for future families.

 

You are not going to get as much in places like Deadmonton, Winterpeg, Ottawa, etc as you would in Vancity. So if it came down to it, I would guess most Americans wouldn’t mind Vancouver.

 

The only drawback is the cost to live here but if you make good enough money that becomes less of an issue. 
 

Miller could very well be happy to stay here.