aGENT Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Provost said: He didn’t say “no step back” as in the Benning model of giving up assets to win in the short term. You seem to be purposefully misunderstanding what he keeps saying… there isn’t any need to read between the lines. He and Allvin have been remarkably consistent with their messaging. They aren’t “intentionally” going to be trying to take a step back in terms of rebuilding by tearing or down for a bunch of picks that won’t be playing meaningful roles until 4 seasons from now. They are overtly saying that their eyes are on what makes the team better two years from now and beyond. If they take a step back next year or not isn’t their priority or worry and they keep saying that. I don’t know how much clearer they can be. They even explained that our half season of good play hasn’t changed their minds on what the team needs. If they follow their word, you can expect a mix of picks, NHL prospects, and younger established NHL players as returns in trades. I've tried explaining it to him. Good luck. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, Provost said: He didn’t say “no step back” as in the Benning model of giving up assets to win in the short term. You seem to be purposefully misunderstanding what he keeps saying… there isn’t any need to read between the lines. He and Allvin have been remarkably consistent with their messaging. They aren’t “intentionally” going to be trying to take a step back in terms of rebuilding by tearing or down for a bunch of picks that won’t be playing meaningful roles until 4 seasons from now. They are overtly saying that their eyes are on what makes the team better two years from now and beyond. If they take a step back next year or not isn’t their priority or worry and they keep saying that. I don’t know how much clearer they can be. They even explained that our half season of good play hasn’t changed their minds on what the team needs. If they follow their word, you can expect a mix of picks, NHL prospects, and younger established NHL players as returns in trades. Nope. JR clearly said we will keep moving forward. He said they will be very careful with their moves so not to take any steps back. We might get picks and prospects, but those will quickly (immediately) be traded for players who can help us now. Ike the third for Dermott. How old is Dermott again? I think we fans need to accept the directive from our owner to management hasn’t changed from the Benning years. Win now moves is what we will continue to see. Miller will be traded for two guys like Marino and Kapanen. I hate that, but accept it’s will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure961089 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Alflives said: I can’t see the Jets. They would only see JT as a rental. But if they did want to rent him for a year who would we want back? Ehlers + . Wheeler is 35 their window is closing fast. They still have a core of 26-29 of good players, Miller could rekindle Wheeler for one last Hurrah! . Edited June 3, 2022 by Pure961089 Mistakes were made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure961089 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 I was think inking Vegas (wouldn’t be wise to trade with them) and Jack Eichel. Vegas gave up a lot to get Eichel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Carolina just got exposed for their lack of offensive ability (along with an injured goalie) in the Playoffs. Aho is a great player but he couldn't match Zibanejad up the middle offensively. Trochek is their 2C and a UFA as well. Miller gives them the offensive powerhouse they've been lacking and they treat it as an aggressive move to win the Cup next year. It also addresses their biggest need while also leaving a lot of cap space to bring back their current team (Trochek and DeAngelo are important UFAs). This is invaluable to a contender going all in for next year. Carolina: Necas + Morrow + 2023 1st for Miller (50% retained and with an extension) Necas is a young middle-6 forward who had a great bubble year but has stagnated this year after being pulled away from Aho on the top line in favour of a 19 year old (during the season) in Jarvis. He's an RFA this year but somebody who is a decent player right now who could develop into a better player still. Morrow is a RHD prospect drafted in the 2nd round last year who put up really good NCAA numbers. This trade gives Carolina a 1C for less than 3M who can drive a full team's offense to push them over the top next year and allow them to re-sign important players like Trochek, DeAngelo, etc. Vancouver get's a young forward with potential who can grow with our core, addresses an organizational need by adding a RHD prospect and adds a 1st to what is supposed to be a very good draft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure961089 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Would you take Montreal’s 26th and 29th overall for JT Miller straight up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70seven Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 7 minutes ago, Pure961089 said: Would you take Montreal’s 26th and 29th overall for JT Miller straight up? Hells no 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Pure961089 said: Would you take Montreal’s 26th and 29th overall for JT Miller straight up? Miller is a 1-year rental at the draft. Teams are apparently not allowed to talk extension before the last year of his deal - cf below. Arizona got hit rather hard for trying to bend the combine rules (losing a 1st and a 2nd round pick) so maybe not worth the risk. At the draft Miller is on a steal of a contract which should draw interest from contenders - less likely from rebuilding teams. At free agency teams with longer term plans can talk to him (with Vancouver's approval), but they can also talk to UFAs - ideally someone like Forsberg gets taken off the market before then. On 5/31/2022 at 7:26 AM, aliboy said: So here it is, I am surprised, would have thought a club can negotiate with their own player then sign after the appropriate date, but no. RENEGOTIATION OF CONTRACTS Will Clubs be able to renegotiate contracts with players? No. Player contracts will not be renegotiated (upward or downward) during their term. Extensions may be negotiated but only in the final year of the contract and only if such extension is for an amount that can be accommodated in a Club's upper limit for the current year or as computed for future years. Edited June 3, 2022 by mll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Pure961089 said: Would you take Montreal’s 26th and 29th overall for JT Miller straight up? Not even remotely close. That is less than what the Canucks paid for him when he was playing on 3rd lines and producing at that level as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 3 hours ago, Pure961089 said: Would you take Montreal’s 26th and 29th overall for JT Miller straight up? Is this a serious proposal? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herberts Vasiljevs Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, aGENT said: 5th OA, Konecny, Farabee, Frost, Sanheim, Provorov... I see Philly as a very good trade partner. Farabee playing next to Pettersson for years down the road is pretty enticing. Edited June 3, 2022 by Herberts Vasiljevs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklas Bo Hunter Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Heard philly atr gonna spend the money to get kadri in the offseason. If they add kadri and miller they look a lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 5 hours ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said: I see Philly as a very good trade partner. Farabee playing next to Pettersson for years down the road is pretty enticing. I love Farabee But him and Provorov are probably near untouchable off that list. Never hurts to ask though! Still, Konecny, 5th OA and Frost wouldn't be an awful return either All depends on how desperate they are to turn things around I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Why is everyone so obsessed with trading Miller? The last time we had anyone at 99 to 104 points was the Twins and that was back in 2010-11. Miller is 31 points above the next best Canuck. Seems to me, we'd be better served keeping him and getting rid of some the expensive dead weight. It's possible we might have to move him anyways if an extension is too pricey. But the reality is not many teams have cap space. So you may not get what you are hoping for. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 6 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: Why is everyone so obsessed with trading Miller? The last time we had anyone at 99 to 104 points was the Twins and that was back in 2010-11. Miller is 31 points above the next best Canuck. Seems to me, we'd be better served keeping him and getting rid of some the expensive dead weight. It's possible we might have to move him anyways if an extension is too pricey. But the reality is not many teams have cap space. So you may not get what you are hoping for. you'ld be happy with 8x9? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 14 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: Why is everyone so obsessed with trading Miller? The last time we had anyone at 99 to 104 points was the Twins and that was back in 2010-11. Miller is 31 points above the next best Canuck. Seems to me, we'd be better served keeping him and getting rid of some the expensive dead weight. It's possible we might have to move him anyways if an extension is too pricey. But the reality is not many teams have cap space. So you may not get what you are hoping for. Cool keep Miller- for how long and how much.? And that is why people are saying he's getting traded. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NucknAsia Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, Alflives said: That’s what we (a lot of) fans want. But JR said no step back. He said any moves he makes will be to keep the team going forward. So, if he’s being honest, the main part of any Miller return will be fully developed players who are not going to be better in two years. They will be in their primes now. So like Marino and Kapanen. I think the key for JR is to get guys a few years younger than Miller who will be in their primes now and for several more years. They just won’t be as good as Miller is now and never will be. I think JR is always going to say that regardless, not for the fans, for the team. He is setting a bar high, telling the team, we will not accept any steps back and that's on you boys. Yes losing Miller will hurt, but he's sending a message to Bo, Petey, Quinn, Boeser, (assuming all will be back), that they are the leaders (they are actually vets not young rookies) and they have to stop leading from behind, waiting for someone else to be 'in charge'. These are the players in charge, this is their team, they are the core, and they have to be the one's pulling the rest into the fight, not just Miller, that is what he is signaling. He is telling them directly that they have to come back and be better and hungrier and he won't accept excuses that well, Miller is gone so its ok if we take a step back. What is available on offer for Miller will dictate what we get back in terms of NHL ready players or not. Ie, do you think JR would turn down say Brandt Clarke, Alex Turcotte, and Helge Grans / or a first rounder over Marino and Kapanen as a hypothetical example? In that case you've got three potentially elite pieces who are not quite ready yet vs 2 NHL proven players that will make you solid now but don't have alot of long term upside from what we've seen. Personally, I think JR and Alvin are smart enough to take the LA deal....Not saying that's a deal that will be on offer but we could see such a scenario. Until we know what is offered of course JR is saying we aren't taking a step back, and he would never verbalize that anyways, as it allows our players who remain to have an excuse. He's not going to give the team and coaches an excuse. By saying we are taking a step back, he's literally just told all his players and coaches you can coast and be mediocre again next year because well, we are willing to take a step back....no leader says that Alf. Edited June 3, 2022 by NucknAsia 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gawdzukes Posted June 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said: I see Philly as a very good trade partner. Farabee playing next to Pettersson for years down the road is pretty enticing. Yeah they would be a good partner. It's a shame NJ won the lotto as they would have been prime trade partners too. 1 hour ago, gurn said: Cool keep Miller- for how long and how much.? And that is why people are saying he's getting traded. It seems to me that the last (3) Covid seasons have kind of depleted some peoples ability to remember how hockey works. You get the odd fan reminding us of how good Miller is and that you don't just lose good point producing hockey players unless you get someone equal back. Except it happens all the time when you have an emerging player coming to the end of his contract on a mediocre team. That's hockey. These people act as if none of us noticed Miller had a 'not bad' year. If only hockey was as simple as throwing big money at your top players to retain them without thinking about the landscape, future direction, and other teams actions. Edited June 3, 2022 by Gawdzukes 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Philly would be the team to target a trade with. They have some young prospects/players and that 5th overall pick. In that range would be Nemec and Jiricek. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Just now, BPA said: Philly would be the team to target a trade with. They have some young prospects/players and that 5th overall pick. In that range would be Nemec and Jiricek. They can't talk to him before the draft though because he's not yet in the final year of his deal - 5th overall for a 1-year rental seems expensive. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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