[Rumour] Boeser On Block

[Provost]

1 minute ago, Canuckster86 said:

If we have cap issues there are other players ahead of Boeser you trade or buyout before you move Boeser imo.

 

Myers 6m, Pearson 3m+, Dickinson 2.65m, Halak 3m (not needed at all, shoulda got a 900k backup) All these guys are overpaid or not a fit under our current coaching scheme

… and we would pay about as much on the open market to replace them.  You end up buying out overpaid players and replacing them with more overpaid players.

 

Nobody on your list brings us back any players for futures of any note.  We don’t have any prospects in the system to replace them for cheaper.

 

UFAs generally want to sign somewhere with a chance of winning… we don’t offer that, so the only alternative is to badly overpay to bribe them.

 

We have a bad team, other players know we have a bad team, agents know we have a bad team… that means our only real way out is to move guys who aren’t going to be club controlled for guys who will be and don’t have a choice but to play for a bad team for a couple of years until we can “hopefully” start to get better.

[Bure_of_94]

34 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

And this is the saddest part. As a team that is supposedly on the rise, how is that we have no cap room? 

 

Is that not the responsibility of the GM to handle that? 

 

Benning has handled the cap of this team so poorly it's actually handicapped the Canucks. That's how bad of a GM he is. 

 

For the owner to not even comprehend this, is beyond me. I hope the team continues to receive bad press, maybe that'll eventually put pressure on ownership to eventually do something. Pressure from fans, from media, bad record, players being unhappy, eventually, something has to give. There's too much pressure for them to continue to ignore voices all around them calling for heads to roll. 

 

I’m not willing to say he’s a horrible GM yet. If Boeser, Horvat, Pettersson, Etc were doing what they’re supposed to maybe this seems tight but manageable. 
 

 Now we don’t know until we get a new coach in if all these Canucks are busts or not. If we get a new coach and these guys don’t wake up OR if Benning fails to address the coaching on a floundering team that’s clearly not interested in their coach... then yes, he’s completely failed. 

 

 

 

 

[N4ZZY]

Just now, Bure_of_94 said:

I’m not willing to say he’s a horrible GM yet. If Boeser, Horvat, Pettersson, Etc were doing what they’re supposed to maybe this seems tight but manageable. 
 

 Now we don’t know until we get a new coach in if all these Canucks are busts or not. If we get a new coach and these guys don’t wake up OR if Benning fails to address the coaching on a floundering team that’s clearly not interested in their coach... then yes, he’s completely failed. 

 

 

 

 

I wonder when the announcement will be that Green has been fired. 

 

Because it feels like there might not be one coming. 

 

 

[Bure_of_94]

19 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

If we have cap issues there are other players ahead of Boeser you trade or buyout before you move Boeser imo.

 

Myers 6m, Pearson 3m+, Dickinson 2.65m, Halak 3m (not needed at all, shoulda got a 900k backup) All these guys are overpaid or not a fit under our current coaching scheme

This sets up a brutal precedent though, what do we do when Hoglander and Podzy comes time to renew for 5-7 each? Do we sign it to them and run the last 13 players on league minimum wage.? lol imagine that, 2 lines and 13 Chaissons. 
 

 

 I mean BB should be coming in at 7-8/season. With the money Pettersson is making and his numbers so far, the Canucks don’t have a leg to stand in, on negotiations. 
 

[tas]

a team being contacted about one of their players doesn't mean that player is on the trade block. the player is on the block when their team starts making phone calls about them. 

[Provost]

4 minutes ago, Bure_of_94 said:

I’m not willing to say he’s a horrible GM yet. If Boeser, Horvat, Pettersson, Etc were doing what they’re supposed to maybe this seems tight but manageable. 
 

 Now we don’t know until we get a new coach in if all these Canucks are busts or not. If we get a new coach and these guys don’t wake up OR if Benning fails to address the coaching on a floundering team that’s clearly not interested in their coach... then yes, he’s completely failed. 

 

 

 

 

He has the fewest wins per cap dollar spent than any of his peers.

 

We have an empty prospect pipeline largely due to him having to correct mistakes he made on bad players or from picking up players to “win now” which he failed to do while also mortgaging our future.
 

There is no metric where he isn’t terrible at his job.  Even as just an amateur scout he is only just above average missing on half of his top 10 picks and not mining talent out of later rounds beyond what is expected by random historical average.

[Bure_of_94]

5 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I wonder when the announcement will be that Green has been fired. 

 

Because it feels like there might not be one coming. 

 

 

And if he’s not, within  the next month and things don’t turn around, then it’s Benning who has to be canned. Because we’ll waste this season floundering and most likely next season failing as the new GM/Coach assess what they have. 
 

 So if Benning fails to address the coaching and the boys don’t turn it around, it could possibly be 3 seasons before the rebuild starts and 8-10 before we’re a playoff contender again. 

[Bure_of_94]

3 minutes ago, Provost said:

He has the fewest wins per cap dollar spent than any of his peers.

 

We have an empty prospect pipeline largely due to him having to correct mistakes he made on bad players or from picking up players to “win now” which he failed to do while also mortgaging our future.
 

There is no metric where he isn’t terrible at his job.  Even as just an amateur scout he is only just above average missing on half of his top 10 picks and not mining talent out of later rounds beyond what is expected by random historical average.

That’s better than we’ve ever been though. Canucks drafting was Horrible before Benning. Most teams draft 1 or 2 nhl players/draft. The Canucks were getting 1 every 2-3 drafts. For every sedin/Kesler we drafted, we were drafting 2- Hodgson, White, Jensen, Gaunce, Shroeders....... Etc. 

[JeremyCuddles]

Don't let Benning make the trade, I am still of the mindset I don't want Boeser moved at all. But if he is to be moved let the next man up make the move. The only real good trades Benning has made was for Pearson and the OEL/Garland trade. At least that I can recall as of right now.

[Sapper]

The cancuks are crapping the.bed and by all indications the team is building around the gm and coach and not around the players .... 

 

Of course other GM's are calling and id assume it's on more than a few canuck players. 

 

Can't blame other GM's hoping to cash in with a buy low divorce sale scenario of a team that is in free fall and puts the gm and coach as the untouchables

 

I'd be disappointed if our GM didn't make calls on other stars in the same scenario

 

BUT ....... calls if inquiry are just that and hopefully we haven't reached that fire sale level where our core will be sold off

 

 

[Eddie]

Yeah again I would say no to letting Benning trade Brock at this point. If were gonna trade the core i think a G.M with a different and hopefully better vision should be the one to do it.  Benning's tenure was 'this core' if its failed - so has he,  and its time to move on. 

 

We would be selling low on a player who is having a stinker right now but still has impressive career goals and point totals.  The 7.5M is a scary number considering injury history and his struggles with season to season consistency. I'm sure he will put up some really impressive numbers throughout the rest of his career so completely adverse to selling low on him. 

 

I think ultimately he would be the logical player to move given his cap hit - present and future, and his skill set being one that we could probably replace internally with Hogz, Garland, Podz and hopefully Klimovich for cheaper ( tho none of them have score ~30 goals yet) - since he hasn't really lived up to the consistent elite shot scoring threat billing the 7.5M QO was hoping he would be. Would make room for some bigger bodies or better D.

 

 

 

[Outsiders]

1 minute ago, N7Nucks said:

Don't let Benning make the trade, I am still of the mindset I don't want Boeser moved at all. But if he is to be moved let the next man up make the move. The only real good trades Benning has made was for Pearson and the OEL/Garland trade. At least that I can recall as of right now.

I think this is all smoke anyhow, Benning has never traded any of our top young guys and that's who all other GM's call about. Can't blame him for taking the call. However, Benning's ability to make trades has been good the last 2.5-3 years. Pearson, Toffoli (if he kept them), Miller, OEL/Garland. 

 

I think where Benning doesn't do good is asset management in recovering lost picks and letting UFA's walk. Although I think letting UFA's walk is more on ownership wanting to keep the team in the playoff fight.

[Provost]

9 minutes ago, Bure_of_94 said:

That’s better than we’ve ever been though. Canucks drafting was Horrible before Benning. Most teams draft 1 or 2 nhl players/draft. The Canucks were getting 1 every 2-3 drafts. For every sedin/Kesler we drafted, we were drafting 2- Hodgson, White, Jensen, Gaunce, Shroeders....... Etc. 

That is objectively not true.  This is a pretty historic run of futility by the franchise.

 

Didn’t you notice us at the top of the league for a long stretch not too long ago?

[ShawnAntoski]

Predictable: that a desperate trade is being looked at - instead, of just swallowing the cost & criticism of re signing a MEDIOCRE coach to a (baffling) 2yr extension.   Players have probably developed some apathy towards Green & management due to the constant roster tweakings or roster turnovers cause with Green it is never his system rather it is  always the players not buying in. 

 

A desperate trade will only cost the Canucks asset(s), to buy themselves time till seasons end; and will end up doing the samething - fire Green & friends - mediocrity.

Edited November 23, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[HKSR]

55 minutes ago, Provost said:

If you look carefully at the cap situation, Boeser’s cap hit will absolutely be a problem.

 

Not only can teams not afford to overpay players, which his QO will certainly do… but you have to look beyond an extremely myopic view of just his contract alone.

 

We have three of our most efficient contracts up for renewal in Miller, Horvat, and Hoglander.  Each of them will be due a substantial raise just to get to fair market value.  

Overpaying Boeser doesn’t leave room for that without decimating any depth we have.  I don’t know if you noticed, but there aren’t many prospects in the pipeline to give us new cheap and productive players.  That was the entire worry when Benning was throwing around high picks for instant help, once you don’t have a new ELC or two coming in an playing a material role on the team you run out of cap space really fast.

Stop running around with your head caught off and actually do some math.

 

Here you go.  An example for 2022 through 2026.  Pearson could be trade or kept.  Either way works.  I've traded him in this scenario for a draft pick.

 

Boeser @ 7.5M

Horvat @ 7M

JT Miller @ 7.5M

Hogs and Podz both getting bridged at 4.5M each

Petey @ 8.5M

 

With a modest increase of only 1M on the cap each year for the next 4 years (which is very reasonable), our depth takes no hit at all.  We've also injected Klimovich, Lockwood and Rathbone into the lineup as well over the course of 4 years.

 

[Maddogy]

15 minutes ago, Outsiders said:

I think this is all smoke anyhow, Benning has never traded any of our top young guys and that's who all other GM's call about. Can't blame him for taking the call. However, Benning's ability to make trades has been good the last 2.5-3 years. Pearson, Toffoli (if he kept them), Miller, OEL/Garland. 

 

I think where Benning doesn't do good is asset management in recovering lost picks and letting UFA's walk. Although I think letting UFA's walk is more on ownership wanting to keep the team in the playoff fight.

Fans are just guessing. We have no idea what the ownership decided. Are they going to try for the playoffs or are they going to do a retool? Since the ownership and J.B. were wrong with their projections for the core players and the team, what is their new time frame to make playoffs and compete? Did they lose faith in Pettersson and Boeser as core pieces? Why are the coaching staff and management still intact?  We just don't know right now. Are they in a wait and see mode to see what they can get for Boeser and Miller as well as possible candidates for head coach? Has the ownership made a final decision yet regarding the direction of the team? We don't know. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Maddogy

[RWJC]

8 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Stop running around with your head caught off and actually do some math.

 

Here you go.  An example for 2022 through 2026.  Pearson could be trade or kept.  Either way works.  I've traded him in this scenario for a draft pick.

 

Boeser @ 7.5M

Horvat @ 7M

JT Miller @ 7.5M

Hogs and Podz both getting bridged at 4.5M each

Petey @ 8.5M

 

With a modest increase of only 1M on the cap each year for the next 4 years (which is very reasonable), our depth takes no hit at all.  We've also injected Klimovich, Lockwood and Rathbone into the lineup as well over the course of 4 years.

 

Much appreciated.

 

The only question/concern I have... is Boeser actually worth 7.5 considering his history and point totals.  I'm not sure, it's a tough call.

[Plaguez]

You have to fire the coach before trading any top 6 player. Trading Boeser or Miller right now would be a huge mistake.  Can't let Benning screw this up further. Send the Sedins to lock up his phone until either Green or Benning or both are fired.

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, RWJC said:

Much appreciated.

 

The only question/concern I have... is Boeser actually worth 7.5 considering his history and point totals.  I'm not sure, it's a tough call.

Yeah that's a completely different subject.  All I wanted to point out is the cap isn't an issue.  The issue is whether or not this is a player problem or a coaching problem that has this team with pretty much the worst PP and PK in the entire league, and systems in place that seem to ruin even the most talented of players on this roster.

[Me_]

STL

Boeser

 

VAN

Parayko

1st ‘22