[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[Screw]

48 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

As stated.  They don't have to "pony up"

 

Literally no team is going to lose a credible and quality roster player right now for Horvat.  11 teams in the east in or at least within 11 points of the playoff wild card spot.  11 teams in the west in or at least within 11 points of the playoff wild card spot.

 

Of those 22 ish teams only 5 total have the available cap space to take Horvat without shipping out a contract.  

 

Every single team in the league knows EXACTLY what the Canucks want or need.  Rutherford outright said he'd be happy bargain shopping for young underperforming roster players under contract.  Think Kiril Marchenko type from Columbus or Dellandrea/Guryanov in Dallas.  THAT is going to be one of the highlights of a trade involving horvat.  Not a Schneider, Laff, Necas.  Literally NO team in the league is going to fork over a fortune of a return for a player that this management group refuses to allow to speak about extensions with.  Knowing that the teams management said it will money puck things with cast offs.  Knowing that this orgs biggests needs are an RHC/LW and RHD and literally ANY kind of player under the age of 25.

Especially when all they have to do is make a pitch July 1st for free

 

The idea of getting a Necas type player back is a joke.  Jarvis?  same thing.  It's literally never going to happen.  Rutherford will get a deal done for the sake of getting a deal done make no mistake and it will check his boxes and nothing more.

I picture a black storm cloud over you while you type this.

[Warhippy]

14 minutes ago, Screw said:

I picture a black storm cloud over you while you type this.

Hockey is first and foremost business now.

 

First rule of business, don't waste money/assets if you don't have to, buy low sell high.

 

If you know what someone needs and you have it, you have the leverage.  if you have the ability to get what you want for free; don't spend a dime or your time until it's free.

 

ask why the canes for instance would sell Jarvis, 20 years old .5 ppg or Necas 24 years old 41 points in 46 games for Horvat who would possibly walk in 4 months?  They could move Koko and try to sign him for free in 5

Edited January 24, 2023 by Warhippy

[Alflives]

56 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

As stated.  They don't have to "pony up"

 

Literally no team is going to lose a credible and quality roster player right now for Horvat.  11 teams in the east in or at least within 11 points of the playoff wild card spot.  11 teams in the west in or at least within 11 points of the playoff wild card spot.

 

Of those 22 ish teams only 5 total have the available cap space to take Horvat without shipping out a contract.  

 

Every single team in the league knows EXACTLY what the Canucks want or need.  Rutherford outright said he'd be happy bargain shopping for young underperforming roster players under contract.  Think Kiril Marchenko type from Columbus or Dellandrea/Guryanov in Dallas.  THAT is going to be one of the highlights of a trade involving horvat.  Not a Schneider, Laff, Necas.  Literally NO team in the league is going to fork over a fortune of a return for a player that this management group refuses to allow to speak about extensions with.  Knowing that the teams management said it will money puck things with cast offs.  Knowing that this orgs biggests needs are an RHC/LW and RHD and literally ANY kind of player under the age of 25.

Especially when all they have to do is make a pitch July 1st for free

 

The idea of getting a Necas type player back is a joke.  Jarvis?  same thing.  It's literally never going to happen.  Rutherford will get a deal done for the sake of getting a deal done make no mistake and it will check his boxes and nothing more.

Yup.  The best deals, or ones that turn out the best, when trading away core guys of Horvat’s level are usually for futures.  It’s just those futures take time and patience to wait for to help the team.  Our owner is always directing his management to “speed up” the process of building.  So we are absolutely looking at guys who are coming out of their ELCs (or recently out) who have underperformed, but that management believes have upside.  Sounds exactly like what Benning was directed by ownership to do. 

[Angry Goose]

If SB is out for a significant amount of time, I can see FLA definitely trying to do something. They absolutely do not want to give up a high draft pick this year

 

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Angry Goose

[higgyfan]

5 hours ago, coryberg said:

I'm more worried about JT's offense drying up as his ice time is decreased and he is forced not to cheat. 8 mil x 7 years for a 60 point player with additude issues will be even more impossible to get rid of.

His time on the PK is drying up; not his offensive time.  He had too much toi (as do others), so he will probably

be fresher when he's on the ice.  Scoring is what he does best, so that will be his most important role on the

team.

[DeNiro]

11 minutes ago, Angry Goose said:

If SB is out for a significant amount of time, I can see FLA definitely trying to do something. They absolutely do not want to give up a high draft pick this year

 

 

Only piece they have is Lundell.

 

Doubt they part with him.

 

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by DeNiro

[Screw]

13 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Hockey is first and foremost business now.

 

First rule of business, don't waste money/assets if you don't have to, buy low sell high.

 

If you know what someone needs and you have it, you have the leverage.  if you have the ability to get what you want for free; don't spend a dime or your time until it's free.

 

ask why the canes for instance would sell Jarvis, 20 years old .5 ppg or Necas 24 years old 41 points in 46 games for Horvat who would possibly walk in 4 months?  They could move Koko and try to sign him for free in 5

You realize the other half of that is supply and demand.  One team will get a coveted 27 year old centre and the others get squat.  
 

If you’re team A and say “hell, I’ll just wait and sign this guy in July you very likely will be left holding your D*** in your hands.

 

Whoever bids highest wins and it’s as simple as that.   What will that be?  Who knows.   My bet is that Horvat never sees UFA and extends with the team that makes the deal for him.

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, coryberg said:

I feel like that may have shut the door on him. Weird dynamic for the dressing room that's for sure.

 

4 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Dave Lowry coached his son Adam in Winnipeg.

 

It was fine.

Yup. Depends on the father and the son. Some can work together just fine. Some...cannot.

 

4 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Could be they both go to Carolina and we take Raanta back in a trade. Wouldn't that be fun? 

Nope. Not for my fantasy team 

[Maginator]

1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

Canucks scouting the Leafs and the Isles.

 

I could see a package of Beauvillier, Wahlstrom, and Raty. 
 

Bolduc would be another player to keep an eye on.

Really don’t wanna see a trade with the Isles. They’ve got nothing that helps us.

 

 

Could be scouting those teams for an entirely different trade.

 

Luke Schenn comes to mind as being a fit.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Maginator said:

Could be scouting those teams for an entirely different trade.

 

Luke Schenn comes to mind as being a fit.

Yup.  Could definitely see a Schenn to the LOSER LEAFS for Littlegren. 

[Coconuts]

28 minutes ago, Angry Goose said:

If SB is out for a significant amount of time, I can see FLA definitely trying to do something. They absolutely do not want to give up a high draft pick this year

 

 

Miller for Reinhart and they retain enough cap to balance the cap hits for the remainder of the season, or we retain on the remainder of this season and they make it worth our while 

 

He's not a center but he can moonlight as one for them until they're healthy and then slot back to the wing

 

Reinhart can be flipped again, extended, or allowed to walk as his deal is up after next season 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Coconuts

[Coconuts]

Reinhart is from Vancouver, he's producing this season, he's got less term on his deal, and he allows us some potential cap flex if we don't retain his services

 

They get a guy with term, they've shown they're willingness to go in to try and contend, and he'll only make 1.5M more next season than Reinhart does now 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Coconuts

[coryberg]

28 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

His time on the PK is drying up; not his offensive time.  He had too much toi (as do others), so he will probably

be fresher when he's on the ice.  Scoring is what he does best, so that will be his most important role on the

team.

I would be fine with that. He had no business (besides faceoffs) on the pk. I think Tocchet will leave his minutes tge same on the PP but I could see his ES going down a bit. Tocchet wants players to be fresh and give their all every shift. Figures that's why JT coasts on every backcheck. Pacing himself for 22 mins a game.

[J-23]

All these divisional teams interested 

[mll]

35 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Miller for Reinhart and they retain enough cap to balance the cap hits for the remainder of the season, or we retain on the remainder of this season and they make it worth our while 

 

He's not a center but he can moonlight as one for them until they're healthy and then slot back to the wing

 

Reinhart can be flipped again, extended, or allowed to walk as his deal is up after next season 

 

Maurice recently revealed that Florida very well knew that this could be a transition season where they would be in tough to replicate last season when he was offered the job.  Zito told him that they were going to face quite a bit of adversity this season given the changes they've made in the summer.  

 

Florida has too little cap space and too big of a hole on defence after moving Weegar.  Would expect them to focus on fixing their D-corps and do something about their goalie situation before making changes up front.  Adding Miller would just cap strap them and limit them to make more essential changes going into next season.  

 

[Coconuts]

15 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Maurice recently revealed that Florida very well knew that this could be a transition season where they would be in tough to replicate last season when he was offered the job.  Zito told him that they were going to face quite a bit of adversity this season given the changes they've made in the summer.  

 

Florida has too little cap space and too big of a hole on defence after moving Weegar.  Would expect them to focus on fixing their D-corps and do something about their goalie situation before making changes up front.  Adding Miller would just cap strap them and limit them to make more essential changes going into next season.  

 

Perhaps, but I still believe there's a move to be had. 

 

Hornqvist's 5.3M will be off the books, Yandle's buyout cap hit will drop by roughly 4M, Darling's 1.1M buyout will be off the books. Duclair could be moved. 

Knight's raise eats up some of that but not all. Marc Staal could be replaced by another player, they could either retain or replace Gudas's 2.5M. Cap should also go up a bit and then it's supposed to jump quite significantly. 

 

Florida may be able to address their D to a degree even with Miller coming in, it'd probably take them more than one offseason to really overhaul it anyway. 

 

What they might have to do if they really want to be competitive is find a solution to that Bobrovsky contract. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Coconuts

[mll]

20 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Perhaps, but I still believe there's a move to be had. 

 

Hornqvist's 5.3M will be off the books, Yandle's buyout cap hit will drop by roughly 4M, Darling's 1.1M buyout will be off the books. Duclair could be moved. 

Knight's raise eats up some of that but not all. Marc Staal could be replaced by another player, they could either retain or replace Gudas's 2.5M. Cap should also go up a bit and then it's supposed to jump quite significantly. 

 

Florida may be able to address their D to a degree even with Miller coming in, it'd probably take them more than one offseason to really overhaul it anyway. 

 

What they might have to do if they really want to be competitive is find a solution to that Bobrovsky contract. 

Have to wonder if they won't buy out that contract.  It's ugly but it would allow them to move on.  

 

Wouldn't expect Vancouver to try and move Miller.  Friedman believes they targeted Tocchet in part because of Miller - they know Tocchet can handle personalities. He was even nicknamed the Kessel whisperer.  Rutherford was also talking about how it takes time to move from wing to C + he hadn't been used consistently at C so it will take an adjustment period.

 

Miller's outburst have made the rounds out East.  The Delia incident but then also the different times where he just quits.  Even Tocchet talks of how you can't give up even if you are upset when things go wrong - ie he noticed it and you'd think other teams have too.  Lots of teams also believe that being able to stay even keeled and manage emotions is important for success and he hasn't really shown he can.

 

[Coconuts]

7 minutes ago, mll said:

Have to wonder if they won't buy out that contract.  It's ugly but it would allow them to move on.  

 

Wouldn't expect Vancouver to try and move Miller.  Friedman believes they targeted Tocchet in part because of Miller - they know Tocchet can handle personalities. He was even nicknamed the Kessel whisperer.  Rutherford was also talking about how it takes time to move from wing to C + he hadn't been used consistently at C so it will take an adjustment period.

 

Miller's outburst have made the rounds out East.  The Delia incident but then also the different times where he just quits.  Even Tocchet talks of how you can't give up even if you are upset when things go wrong - ie he noticed it and you'd think other teams have too.  Lots of teams also believe that being able to stay even keeled and manage emotions is important for success and he hasn't really shown he can.

 

I think that's probably the inevitable route, they've given up too many 1sts as is. Buying him out would free up enough cap for them to find a back up and then some at the very least. It's just a matter of when and what the numbers look like imo. 

 

I mean, you make a fair point and I could very well see it not happening. But hey, I'm sure they'd move forward all the same if they do end up moving him. Bruce was a dead man walking either way, it's no secret that Rutherford didn't want him around. Was going to happen at some point, Miller or Boudreau being here or not. 

 

And maybe, but Tkachuk can be a bit of a shit too and they went and grabbed him. If he could step in and produce I don't think they'd care, he wouldn't have as bright a spotlight on him in Florida either, which would probably suit him just fine. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Coconuts

[J-23]

I do not like Boston as a trade partner anymore

 

Lysell - Talented, but an undersized winger we already have enough of those. Also his world junior performance really wasn’t impressive, looked bad out there and showed out with 0 points.

 

Carlo - Concussion problems. Huge risk.

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by J-23

[mll]

35 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I think that's probably the inevitable route, they've given up too many 1sts as is. Buying him out would free up enough cap for them to find a back up and then some at the very least. It's just a matter of when and what the numbers look like imo. 

 

I mean, you make a fair point and I could very well see it not happening. But hey, I'm sure they'd move forward all the same if they do end up moving him. Bruce was a dead man walking either way, it's no secret that Rutherford didn't want him around. Was going to happen at some point, Miller or Boudreau being here or not. 

 

And maybe, but Tkachuk can be a bit of a shit too and they went and grabbed him. If he could step in and produce I don't think they'd care, he wouldn't have as bright a spotlight on him in Florida either, which would probably suit him just fine. 

Tkachuk never gives up while Miller at times just stops playing.  Maurice told Zito he'd have them play hard despite the projected adversity.    

 

During the divisional season Sat Shah said he had players telling him how Miller was the one trying to keep them upbeat and keep things going in the right direction.  This season it seems like so much went the wrong way with management not trusting Boudreau.  They extended Miller for a reason and wouldn't expect them to want to move on just yet especially now that they've brought in a coach they trust.  

 

The plan doesn't seem to have really changed either despite Rutherford now talking of major surgery, but it sounds like they are done with the patient waiting for contracts to expire and could force buyouts instead + looks like Horvat will be traded.

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by mll