[Rumour] Coyotes gauging market on Jakob Chychrun

[N4ZZY]

4 hours ago, grandmaster said:

Arizona does not want more salary. It defeats the purpose of their fire sale. If they don't want to keep Chychrun, they surely won’t be interested in paying McAvoy’s contract! 

Right. Arizona doesn’t want more salary. 

 

But salary has to go back doesn’t it, for the trade to work? 

 

 

[grandmaster]

3 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Right. Arizona doesn’t want more salary. 

 

But salary has to go back doesn’t it, for the trade to work? 

 

 

They’ll probably eat one year of salary like they did with LE

[NHL97OneTimer]

On 12/23/2021 at 11:56 AM, N4ZZY said:

I still don't think that gets it done. 

 

Would you do this if Arizona wanted it: 

- 2023 unprotected 1st 

- 2nd rounder in 2023 & 2024

- Klimovich 

- Podkolzin

 

for Chychrun?

 

 

Will Chychrun break Gretzky's records?!!!  This trade would just be criminal and not in our favour.  I don't like this deal with Podz included.  I'm really liking what I'm seeing with Podz so far.

Edited December 25, 2021 by NHL97OneTimer

[NHL97OneTimer]

On 12/22/2021 at 4:38 PM, DeNiro said:

Klimovich/DiPietro

Rathbone 

2022 1st (lotto protected)

 

A lot but I feel like that would get it done.

The trouble is the Canucks really need young guys in entry level deals that outperform.  We're against the cap.  So not only does it remove 3 solid young players, but it also forces the team to drop some salary in other areas.  Gutting a team for one solid player is a big gamble.

 

I do like the idea of being brave to land a very solid young defence to build a team around though.  If Chychrun turns into a home run for his career and re-signs for fair value, this is not unreasonable.

[Alflives]

18 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Will Chychrun break Gretzky's records?!!!  This trade would just be criminal and not in our favour.  I don't like this deal with Podz included.  I'm really liking what I'm seeing with Podz so far.

Did Gretz ever win a Green Jacket while only scoring 7 points?  I don’t get this lobe for a scrub like Chycerscrub.  The guy seriously sucks old socks, and really smelly ones.  He wouldn’t even make our team!  

[wallstreetamigo]

On 12/23/2021 at 11:56 AM, N4ZZY said:

I still don't think that gets it done. 

 

Would you do this if Arizona wanted it: 

- 2023 unprotected 1st 

- 2nd rounder in 2023 & 2024

- Klimovich 

- Podkolzin

 

for Chychrun?

 

 

No way. Chychrun is awesome but unless they are getting rid of OEL he is not filling a need on the roster while destroying young winger depth and future assets that could be used to fill right side D and center holes.

[wallstreetamigo]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Did Gretz ever win a Green Jacket while only scoring 7 points?  I don’t get this lobe for a scrub like Chycerscrub.  The guy seriously sucks old socks, and really smelly ones.  He wouldn’t even make our team!  

Alf, it’s Christmas. I really hope you put down the crack pipe for at least one day. 

[N4ZZY]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

No way. Chychrun is awesome but unless they are getting rid of OEL he is not filling a need on the roster while destroying young winger depth and future assets that could be used to fill right side D and center holes.

Well, Arizona is going to be asking for the moon, and someone is bound to give it to them. 

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, N4ZZY said:

Well, Arizona is going to be asking for the moon, and someone is bound to give it to them. 

Yes and to the right team it will be worth the price paid. 

[N4ZZY]

10 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Yes and to the right team it will be worth the price paid. 

Yeah. We ain’t the right team for that. 

 

 

[coryberg]

12 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Right. Arizona doesn’t want more salary. 

 

But salary has to go back doesn’t it, for the trade to work? 

 

 

McAvoy is far from a cap dump. A spare part like Debrusk would do just fine along with the prospect/draft pick haul.

[shiznak]

First rounders are VASTLY overrated on these boards, especially picks from 15-32. The chances of picking a top 6 forward/4 dmen between that range is less than 20%.

 

If you take a look at draft prospects between the year 2004-2018 who became impactful players; you can find that there isn’t very many. 

 

2004: Schneider (26), Green (29). - Although, I would argue that these two were fringe superstars. Had a few good seasons, but kind of fell off their stardom near the end.

2005: Rask (21), Oshie (24)

2006: Giroux (22)

2007: Pacioretty (22)

2008: Karlsson (15), Eberle (22), Carlson (27) - Eberle been playing top 6 minutes throughout his career, but I wouldn’t consider him an impactful player for his club.

2009: None

2010: Tarasenko (16), Kuznetsov (26)

2011: J.T Miller (15)

2012: Wilson (16), Teravainen (18)

2013: Theodore (26)

2014: Larkin (15), Pastrnek (25)

2015: Barzal (16), Connor (17), Chabot (18), Boeser (23), Konecny (24) - Boeser and Konecny are in the same boat as Eberle. Wouldn’t consider them impactful players, but plays in a top 6 role.

2016: Chychrun (16)

2017: Norris (17)

2018: Smith (17)

 

Since 2004, there’s only been one draft (2015) that produced more than three players, who became serviceable top 6/top 4 players for their clubs.

 

 

Edited December 25, 2021 by shiznak

[teepain]

If he comes then myers is going back the other way at least

[N4ZZY]

6 hours ago, teepain said:

If he comes then myers is going back the other way at least

But Arizona doesn’t want more salary do they?

[NHL97OneTimer]

12 hours ago, shiznak said:

First rounders are VASTLY overrated on these boards, especially picks from 15-32. The chances of picking a top 6 forward/4 dmen between that range is less than 20%.

 

2015: Barzal (16), Connor (17), Chabot (18), Boeser (23), Konecny (24) - Boeser and Konecny are in the same boat as Eberle. Wouldn’t consider them impactful players, but plays in a top 6 role.

 

 

 

 

I probably haven't been on the Boeser bandwagon as much as others here, but I do think he's impactful and a core player.  

 

A Selke winner named Kesler was before this time, but a prime example of someone you don't want to miss an opportunity for.  Perry and Getzlaf if I recall correctly also.  There's no given with a low pick neither (Juolevi, Stefan, Yakupov, and many, many others).

 

The NHL draft is a bit of a lottery, but who wouldn't want a chance to roll the dice?!!!

[Canuck Luck]

19 hours ago, Alflives said:

Did Gretz ever win a Green Jacket while only scoring 7 points?  I don’t get this lobe for a scrub like Chycerscrub.  The guy seriously sucks old socks, and really smelly ones.  He wouldn’t even make our team!  

Yawn...

[WHL rocks]

Chychrun is LD

 

We have Hughes and OEL long term. 

 

We need a top pair RD. 

 

For the price it would cost for Chychrun I would pay a bit more and go after a RD. 

 

 

[khay]

On 12/25/2021 at 1:03 AM, shiznak said:

First rounders are VASTLY overrated on these boards, especially picks from 15-32. The chances of picking a top 6 forward/4 dmen between that range is less than 20%.

 

If you take a look at draft prospects between the year 2004-2018 who became impactful players; you can find that there isn’t very many. 

 

2004: Schneider (26), Green (29). - Although, I would argue that these two were fringe superstars. Had a few good seasons, but kind of fell off their stardom near the end.

2005: Rask (21), Oshie (24)

2006: Giroux (22)

2007: Pacioretty (22)

2008: Karlsson (15), Eberle (22), Carlson (27) - Eberle been playing top 6 minutes throughout his career, but I wouldn’t consider him an impactful player for his club.

2009: None

2010: Tarasenko (16), Kuznetsov (26)

2011: J.T Miller (15)

2012: Wilson (16), Teravainen (18)

2013: Theodore (26)

2014: Larkin (15), Pastrnek (25)

2015: Barzal (16), Connor (17), Chabot (18), Boeser (23), Konecny (24) - Boeser and Konecny are in the same boat as Eberle. Wouldn’t consider them impactful players, but plays in a top 6 role.

2016: Chychrun (16)

2017: Norris (17)

2018: Smith (17)

 

Since 2004, there’s only been one draft (2015) that produced more than three players, who became serviceable top 6/top 4 players for their clubs.

 

 

Interesting. Would have thought there would be a lot more picks that turn into an impact player in the first rounder even if it's the second half of the order.

 

I guess it depends on the definition of "impactful." For a team that is contending, adding a player like McCann would be impactful, which you didn't see as impactful (not listed under 2014). He is not a core player on his own but a player like McCann would improve depth of the team at a reasonable cost. 

 

On the flip side, the fact that there aren't as many core players found from the 15th pick and onwards makes you think twice about trading your own core player for somebody else's (soon to be core) prospect. 

 

For example, I see Braden Schnieder's name gets thrown around a lot here and we are giving up our 1st or a young roster/core player to get him. I don't know how good he is but no team trades a prospect that they think will be an impact player at the NHL level and I doubt the Rangers will trade him unless they are getting a player that they think will help them get over the hump -- i.e., one of our core players, like Horvat. And if they are willing to trade him to us for a non-core player, then you need to be suspicious as there must be a reason for which you are not quite aware of. 

 

[JeremyCuddles]

On 12/25/2021 at 3:15 AM, teepain said:

If he comes then myers is going back the other way at least

Why do we want a blueline of all lefties? We still have Rathbone in the pipeline and a future of OEL and Hughes. Vegas moved out their lefties specifically cause a blueline of 4+ lefties is not effective. I hate that people think just moving Hughes to his off wing is a good idea too. He's terrible defensively and it would be worse on the right side. I dunno, maybe I am in the minority but I don't see a fit with Chychrun. We need righties. Good righties. We have one good righty and you want to trade him for another lefty.

[D-Money]

On 12/25/2021 at 2:03 AM, shiznak said:

First rounders are VASTLY overrated on these boards, especially picks from 15-32. The chances of picking a top 6 forward/4 dmen between that range is less than 20%.

 

If you take a look at draft prospects between the year 2004-2018 who became impactful players; you can find that there isn’t very many. 

 

2004: Schneider (26), Green (29). - Although, I would argue that these two were fringe superstars. Had a few good seasons, but kind of fell off their stardom near the end.

2005: Rask (21), Oshie (24)

2006: Giroux (22)

2007: Pacioretty (22)

2008: Karlsson (15), Eberle (22), Carlson (27) - Eberle been playing top 6 minutes throughout his career, but I wouldn’t consider him an impactful player for his club.

2009: None

2010: Tarasenko (16), Kuznetsov (26)

2011: J.T Miller (15)

2012: Wilson (16), Teravainen (18)

2013: Theodore (26)

2014: Larkin (15), Pastrnek (25)

2015: Barzal (16), Connor (17), Chabot (18), Boeser (23), Konecny (24) - Boeser and Konecny are in the same boat as Eberle. Wouldn’t consider them impactful players, but plays in a top 6 role.

2016: Chychrun (16)

2017: Norris (17)

2018: Smith (17)

 

Since 2004, there’s only been one draft (2015) that produced more than three players, who became serviceable top 6/top 4 players for their clubs.

 

 

I agree that picks outside the top-5/10 are generally overrated. That said, I also think that having quality middle-6 and 2nd pairing guys locked in and cost-controlled for many years is quite valuable. So I would still look at all of these players as big finds for their team:

 

2004 - Zajac, Bolland

2005 - Hanzal, Cogliano, Niskanen

2006 - Berglund, N. Foligno

2007 - Cole, Backlund, Perron

2008 - Gardiner

2009 - Leddy, Kreider, Johansson, Palmieri

2010 - K. Hayes, Coyle, Nelson

2011 - Klefbom, Danault, Rakell

2012 - Hertl, *Vasilevskiy (pretty sure you just missed him), Maata, Skjei, Pearson

...and so on...

 

Even though these guys weren't stars, they provided a lot of utility to their team. And in many cases, after providing value on the ice for years, they were moved for another pick, sometimes even another 1st rounder. Having that steady pipeline of youth and talent is essential to building a deep, winning team.

Edited December 27, 2021 by D-Money