canuck73_3 Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 14 minutes ago, HKSR said: OEL playing 15 to 17min a night will likely mean a much more effective OEL. I think he's just not able to play the big minutes anymore. We need to find a big defensive LHD that can play big minutes next to Hronek. Then have Hughes take all the offensive responsibilities, and OEL anchor the 3rd pair. Let's see how he bounces back not playing the majority of the year with a broken foot first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) 43 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said: Pressbox?!? Please do explain, are you suggesting that OEL would fall down to 7th dman? If so, that one of the least likely takes I've read in a long time. Not necessarily next year but he has 4 years left. What if his play drops and it's not his injury that had him struggle this season but simply age catching up. Say he has another bad season and they realise their preference is to not have him be in the lineup. Going forward there probably won't be the same opportunities as this off-season because the cap will go up and teams won't be in such a chokehold. As Pat Brisson explained teams handed out deals a few years back with the belief that the cap will continue to regularly increase but it hasn't. So there are a lot of contracts where teams didn't foresee they would be using such a large portion of cap space today. After this season the cap is expected to go back to increasing regularly so there's not going to be this bottleneck that there is this off-season. This is a pretty unique situation league wide and the question is whether they are better off to find a way to take advantage, or to let things play out. They might want to weigh where they project OEL and his role throughout the length of his contract vs what/who they could add if they had cap room this off-season. Having 7M in cap space when most other teams have no room has probably quite a bit of value this off-season but is it worth to buy out OEL for it - that's what they need to figure out. If the cap increases by more than the announced 1M then that could changes thing too as there's more breathing room. It's typically announced around draft time and the buyout window closes on 30 June. It's also possible that they manage to pull out fair deals by then. Edited June 16, 2023 by mll 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Lasso Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 21 hours ago, sims said: That's close Sissons needs to be to added something around Sissons, Foote, 15OA? for Garland, Rathbone, 11OA? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 58 minutes ago, mll said: Not necessarily next year but he has 4 years left. What if his play drops and it's not his injury that had him struggle this season but simply age catching up. Say he has another bad season and they realise their preference is to not have him be in the lineup. Going forward there probably won't be the same opportunities as this off-season because the cap will go up and teams won't be in such a chokehold. As Pat Brisson explained teams handed out deals a few years back with the belief that the cap will continue to regularly increase but it hasn't. So there are a lot of contracts where teams didn't foresee they would be using such a large portion of cap space today. After this season the cap is expected to go back to increasing regularly so there's not going to be this bottleneck that there is this off-season. This is a pretty unique situation league wide and the question is whether they are better off to find a way to take advantage, or to let things play out. They might want to weigh where they project OEL and his role throughout the length of his contract vs what/who they could add if they had cap room this off-season. Having 7M in cap space when most other teams have no room has probably quite a bit of value this off-season but is it worth to buy out OEL for it - that's what they need to figure out. If the cap increases by more than the announced 1M then that could changes thing too as there's more breathing room. It's typically announced around draft time and the buyout window closes on 30 June. It's also possible that they manage to pull out fair deals by then. I hear you on the value of cap space this off-season. It will be worth a lot more then most other years. I just don't agree on your view of OEL's play. He was arguably better then Hughes last year if you dig deep into analytics that look at his deployment and results on the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 28 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said: I hear you on the value of cap space this off-season. It will be worth a lot more then most other years. I just don't agree on your view of OEL's play. He was arguably better then Hughes last year if you dig deep into analytics that look at his deployment and results on the ice. Goaltending made him look bad. His advanced stats are good, but raw stats look terrible such as GA. Breaking down those GA it clearly shows OEL was not the issue. This was a bad move imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklas Bo Hunter Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Teams now have to pay for connor garland. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sims Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 2 hours ago, Kenny Powers said: something around Sissons, Foote, 15OA? for Garland, Rathbone, 11OA? I like it but I'm greedy I want more. It just sucks that Garland is perceived to have no value and is a cap dump. Honestly I don't think he is overpaid for what he does and the points he produces. If he was on another team he'd be valued at am early 2nd round pick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Nicklas Bo Hunter said: Teams now have to pay for connor garland. Yup. No more freebies...That's another layer to the OEL buyout I suppose.... this is going to be an INTERESTING summer. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 4 hours ago, Nicklas Bo Hunter said: Teams now have to pay for connor garland. This exactly, we are no longer in a position of "Have to Trade" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 4 hours ago, VegasCanuck said: This exactly, we are no longer in a position of "Have to Trade" lol.. it's already clear nobody wants garland or boeser on their contract.. or they wouldn't go to plan C and buy out OEL.. ya we no longer "have to trade" to get under the cap.. but at the same time we "have to trade" so we can better utilize our cap.. garland boeser beauviller none of them are suited to play in a bottom 6 role.. they are pretty much useless outside of a top 6 winger spot and there's only maybe 2 spots available.. add in podkolzin and hoglanders if they are going to stick in the NHL will have to be in a top 6 role.. mikahyev kuzmenko is pretty much locked in and likely playing with EP.. so literally there's only 2 spots for 5 ppl to compete.. podz maybe can play in a 3rd line role.. but hoglander definitely not.. at the end of the day i'm willing to bet most of the team inquiring about garland or whomever is not asking what do you want for them.. they are probably calling to see what are you willing to give for us to take them. there's plenty of teams looking to shed cap or move a player that doesn't fit their team.. and there's probably plenty of better options than boeser garland or beauviller.. none of these players will move the needle for any team.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 9 hours ago, Nicklas Bo Hunter said: Teams now have to pay for connor garland. Nope. They don’t have to get Garland at all. There are other choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) . Edited June 17, 2023 by Elias Pettersson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, wai_lai416 said: lol.. it's already clear nobody wants garland or boeser on their contract.. or they wouldn't go to plan C and buy out OEL.. ya we no longer "have to trade" to get under the cap.. but at the same time we "have to trade" so we can better utilize our cap.. garland boeser beauviller none of them are suited to play in a bottom 6 role.. they are pretty much useless outside of a top 6 winger spot and there's only maybe 2 spots available.. add in podkolzin and hoglanders if they are going to stick in the NHL will have to be in a top 6 role.. mikahyev kuzmenko is pretty much locked in and likely playing with EP.. so literally there's only 2 spots for 5 ppl to compete.. podz maybe can play in a 3rd line role.. but hoglander definitely not.. at the end of the day i'm willing to bet most of the team inquiring about garland or whomever is not asking what do you want for them.. they are probably calling to see what are you willing to give for us to take them. there's plenty of teams looking to shed cap or move a player that doesn't fit their team.. and there's probably plenty of better options than boeser garland or beauviller.. none of these players will move the needle for any team.. Brock doubt we couldn't have found a trade for him, just might not have been one we liked. In any of these deals, we'd be taking almost or the same cap back. Given the climate right now. Now we have a wide open spot in the top four on the left side. Easier to acquire. And a shocking amount of extra cap space. Some of that 7ish million, will be needed for raises but not much. Especially if we sign Bear and just put him on the LTIR which is exactly what could happen. Not sure exactly where we stand, but around 9 with a middle 5 right side spot and a top four LHD to acquire. That's more than enough. Soucy is a no brainer for me. 6'5", plays his size, and won't be expensive. Evolving hockey has his next deal at 3 x 2.6. Maybe we have to add a little more for taxes, but in any case it won't break the bank. That still allows us to consider Graves as well. To me it's got to be either Schenn or Soucy. I'd actually like both. Edited June 17, 2023 by IBatch 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 4 hours ago, wai_lai416 said: lol.. it's already clear nobody wants garland or boeser on their contract.. or they wouldn't go to plan C and buy out OEL.. ya we no longer "have to trade" to get under the cap.. but at the same time we "have to trade" so we can better utilize our cap.. garland boeser beauviller none of them are suited to play in a bottom 6 role.. they are pretty much useless outside of a top 6 winger spot and there's only maybe 2 spots available.. add in podkolzin and hoglanders if they are going to stick in the NHL will have to be in a top 6 role.. mikahyev kuzmenko is pretty much locked in and likely playing with EP.. so literally there's only 2 spots for 5 ppl to compete.. podz maybe can play in a 3rd line role.. but hoglander definitely not.. at the end of the day i'm willing to bet most of the team inquiring about garland or whomever is not asking what do you want for them.. they are probably calling to see what are you willing to give for us to take them. there's plenty of teams looking to shed cap or move a player that doesn't fit their team.. and there's probably plenty of better options than boeser garland or beauviller.. none of these players will move the needle for any team.. i wouldn't entirely agree to this.. Its more likely the other teams smelt blood and either wanted something juicy to make a trade for them with Canucks cap issues. The last 3 months has been nothing but a whine fest over Canucks not being cap compliant, and was going to get fleeced to get in a better cap position. It was going to cost us picks and poor returns on the players we would be looking at trading away. The only 2 I remember saying this was the way forward, to give is cap space, and probably improve, was @Elias Pettersson followed by @Alflives I think they're owe a big thumbs up for nailing, what seemed to be the only way to give us enough breathing space to maybe even improve the team without getting plundered. On a side note... As soon as the rumours filtered out that the cap incease wasn't going to be as hoped for, Aquilini wrote the cheque (a massive one) to get rid of OEL... For the life of me, I did not think, he was going to do so. Next time folks start to moan about the influence of FA on the team, they better remember, he at least puts his money, when his mouth is.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, spook007 said: i wouldn't entirely agree to this.. Its more likely the other teams smelt blood and either wanted something juicy to make a trade for them with Canucks cap issues. The last 3 months has been nothing but a whine fest over Canucks not being cap compliant, and was going to get fleeced to get in a better cap position. It was going to cost us picks and poor returns on the players we would be looking at trading away. The only 2 I remember saying this was the way forward, to give is cap space, and probably improve, was @Elias Pettersson followed by @Alflives I think they're owe a big thumbs up for nailing, what seemed to be the only way to give us enough breathing space to maybe even improve the team without getting plundered. On a side note... As soon as the rumours filtered out that the cap incease wasn't going to be as hoped for, Aquilini wrote the cheque (a massive one) to get rid of OEL... For the life of me, I did not think, he was going to do so. Next time folks start to moan about the influence of FA on the team, they better remember, he at least puts his money, when his mouth is.. i still don't think anyone will make a trade for garland or boeser regardless of the cap issue. they both eat up too much cap space and neither are players that would move the needle.. the contenders don't have space for them and they'd at best be a a luxury depth on those teams, and the fringe teams again they eat up too much space and not a difference maker to say change them from a fringe team to a contender.. this is the easy shortcut way of "getting out" of cap trouble but i still think it's short sighted and aimed at short term success.. they are guaranteed to spend the cap saving and there's a chance they might go big on another top 4 defenceman that might already eat up all the cap saving if not more. coz as of right now the canucks defensive is atrocious with bear out.. myers is prolly the 3rd best defenceman.. so let say they spend 6-7 mil on another top 4 defenceman.. add the cap penalty of almost 5mil in year 3 and 4.. that's basically 11-12mil spent in the 2 year likely to be peak EP/QH/Hronek and tail end of demko/miller if they haven't already fallen off.. year 3 and 4 is likely the peak competitive window for this core and we are playing with a massive handicap. FA prolly wrote the cheque because he wants to make the playoff at all cost even if we ain't going to be a contender.. being just "good enough" and competitive enough to sneak into the playoff prolly sells more ticket + playoff revenue will make him more money than paying the OEL buyout 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 12 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: i still don't think anyone will make a trade for garland or boeser regardless of the cap issue. they both eat up too much cap space and neither are players that would move the needle.. the contenders don't have space for them and they'd at best be a a luxury depth on those teams, and the fringe teams again they eat up too much space and not a difference maker to say change them from a fringe team to a contender.. this is the easy shortcut way of "getting out" of cap trouble but i still think it's short sighted and aimed at short term success.. they are guaranteed to spend the cap saving and there's a chance they might go big on another top 4 defenceman that might already eat up all the cap saving if not more. coz as of right now the canucks defensive is atrocious with bear out.. myers is prolly the 3rd best defenceman.. so let say they spend 6-7 mil on another top 4 defenceman.. add the cap penalty of almost 5mil in year 3 and 4.. that's basically 11-12mil spent in the 2 year likely to be peak EP/QH/Hronek and tail end of demko/miller if they haven't already fallen off.. year 3 and 4 is likely the peak competitive window for this core and we are playing with a massive handicap. FA prolly wrote the cheque because he wants to make the playoff at all cost even if we ain't going to be a contender.. being just "good enough" and competitive enough to sneak into the playoff prolly sells more ticket + playoff revenue will make him more money than paying the OEL buyout See I disagree on this... You see half empty, where I see half full... Management are not interested in wasting more years of Peteys, Demkos or QHs contract, to accomodate a player, that A the coach doesn't rate and B MAY start to play like a top 4 D man eventually. The 2 year with big cap penalty, coincidence with the raise in the cap, so we should not come under severe contraint in that time. Is it ideal? No of course it isn't but the alternative of floating around in the middle of mushy, mushy country is not particularly enticing neither... The vast majority are hoping OEL will turn it around and be a servicable LHD next year... maybe, but what if he doesn't? Are we just going to ride him for the next 4 years and then hope for better? If we were rebuilding, yes by all means have him hang around like a bad smell, but the team want to push on now, and by god I hope they do as the garbage we've been seeing mostly over the last decade doesn't make me wanna see another 4 years like that. As for FA, if you are willing to write a cheque like this to dump a person, I think you are entitled to want playoffs. As for success, who knows... without pushing on one thing is certain, you won't get any success... Just on a side note, who knows how highly the management team rates D-Petey, Hirose and Wolanin? They might have wanted to create space for these players as well for the coming years... They may make a frade for a defensive 3-4 LHD with a bit of size to play with Myers, wouldn't be too expensive and suddenly there's money to get a rhd to play with QH. All while we keep the forwards for another year, if we can't make a trade that suits both parties. I don't see the doom and gloom only... time will tell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, IBatch said: Brock doubt we couldn't have found a trade for him, just might not have been one we liked. In any of these deals, we'd be taking almost or the same cap back. Given the climate right now. Now we have a wide open spot in the top four on the left side. Easier to acquire. And a shocking amount of extra cap space. Some of that 7ish million, will be needed for raises but not much. Especially if we sign Bear and just put him on the LTIR which is exactly what could happen. Not sure exactly where we stand, but around 9 with a middle 5 right side spot and a top four LHD to acquire. That's more than enough. Soucy is a no brainer for me. 6'5", plays his size, and won't be expensive. Evolving hockey has his next deal at 3 x 2.6. Maybe we have to add a little more for taxes, but in any case it won't break the bank. That still allows us to consider Graves as well. To me it's got to be either Schenn or Soucy. I'd actually like both. I'm happy to bring Schenn back, at under $1.5... (largely similar to Bear) Otherwise we have bigger things to worry about (like filling legit top 4 holes). We aren't likely getting rid of Myers until the TDL anyway. A big yes for me on Soucy and Graves (or trades returning similar players). That'd pretty much sort out our top 4 and not be terribly onerous on the cap. From there I hope we look at guys like Pysyk at/near league min as 7th D until we move Myers and then he can play 3rd pair. Hughes, Graves Soucy, Hronek Prospect(Hirose?)/cheap UFA, Myers Prospect/cheap UFA, Pysyk Yes please. Edited June 17, 2023 by aGENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, aGENT said: I'm happy to bring Schenn back, at under $1.5... (largely similar to Bear) Otherwise we have bigger things to worry about (like filling legit top 4 holes). We aren't likely getting rid of Myers until the TDL anyway. A big yes for me on Soucy and Graves (or trades returning similar players). That'd pretty much sort out our top 4 and not be terribly onerous on the cap. From there I hope we look at guys like Pysyk at/near league min as 7th D until we move Myers and he can play 3rd pair. Hughes, Graves Soucy, Hronek Prospect(Hirose?)/cheap UFA, Myers Prospect/cheap UFA, Pysyk Yes please. Schenn close to signing in Toronto. We should target Sissons as 3rd C. Predators looking for some scoring help and have cap and he brings grit, size, faceoff, defensive ability. Righty C Most importantly he comes in at a cheaper cap hit for 3 seasons. Probably have to offer Preds a good hockey trade as they have options if the offer doesn’t suffice. Hence why I would probably offer Garland or Boeser straight up. The cap savings alone are an asset that we can use to further address the defence having already saved cap from this deal. I 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said: Schenn close to signing in Toronto. We should target Sissons as 3rd C. Predators looking for some scoring help and have cap and he brings grit, size, faceoff, defensive ability. Righty C Most importantly he comes in at a cheaper cap hit for 3 seasons. Probably have to offer Preds a good hockey trade as they have options if the offer doesn’t suffice. Hence why I would probably offer Garland or Boeser straight up. The cap savings alone are an asset that we can use to further address the defence having already saved cap from this deal. I Yup, I'd do that as well if they're game. Add Graves, Soucy and Sissons this offseason and... That's a lot of added 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 20 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said: Schenn close to signing in Toronto. We should target Sissons as 3rd C. Predators looking for some scoring help and have cap and he brings grit, size, faceoff, defensive ability. Righty C Most importantly he comes in at a cheaper cap hit for 3 seasons. Probably have to offer Preds a good hockey trade as they have options if the offer doesn’t suffice. Hence why I would probably offer Garland or Boeser straight up. The cap savings alone are an asset that we can use to further address the defence having already saved cap from this deal. I Further to that, would love to get Prokop from them as well ,and would be willing to add to Garland/Boeser to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now