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[PGT] Seattle Kraken at Vancouver Canucks | Feb. 21, 2022

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-Vintage Canuck-

By -Vintage Canuck-
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Gawdzukes Canucks Star

Gawdzukes

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, khay said:

I'm less worried about attaining balance because I think it's possible, although not easy as we are cap crunched. And yeah, I agree with you that there is very little chance of him coming in at 8 mil. Right now, I see the chance of him coming in at or under 8 mil as less than 1%. That's why I think we move on from him in the off season. The Rangers will lose Strome in the summer and they can more than replace him with Miller from us at 50% retained as long as they give us what we want (Schneider + 1st + forward).

 

Danault signed for 5.5 mil as a UFA. So Horvat at 6.5 mil seems reasonable. Considering the tough minutes that Bo would take on if he re-signs, I think 6.5 mil is fair even if he is penciled in as a 3C.

 

The issue with Horvat is that he is not a possession player and not a great PKer so 6.5 mil may be a bit much for such a player. 


I do agree that the most likely route is to trade either Bo or Miller. Bo seems more loyal to the Canucks while Miller is the better player. I think it all hinges on whether Miller wants to re-sign and if so, what cost. 

 

And EP is not established as a reliable 1C just yet. So ideally, we need another center between or ahead of EP and Horvat if we want to remain competitive. The moment we trade Miller, we lose one of our strengths, which is the depth down the middle.

 

The big difference in LA is Byfield is on an ELC which is up in two years, the same time as a 36yr old Kopitar. Also Danult is the second line center ... they can afford it. I haven't scoured the numbers but it just seems unfeasible off the top of my head to be running with 3 huge contracts through the center. Especially when it doesn't look like we have any scoring wingers ... except Boeser ... but we need money to sign him or someone else otherwise we're hoping Hogs/Pods or Garland can net 30/40 on the top line.

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canuck73_3 Canucks Hall-of-Famer

canuck73_3

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1 minute ago, Taphouse Canuck said:

6 guys and they all thought that someone else had the puck. Pity it was Hamonic who ended up getting the shot.

I saw the puck come out but I thought a fight or scrum was gonna break out. Hamonic played great last night was a good scoring chance though. 

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spook007 Canucks Franchise Player

spook007

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2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

After all these years I didn't realize until I saw that video that there is one HUGE difference between the Sedin twins.  Hank is right handed and Danny is left handed.  Go figure...

Good call...don't think anyone else noticed...

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IBatch Canucks Hall-of-Famer

IBatch

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18 hours ago, khay said:

I agree fully you here.

 

Everyone acknowledges JT's abilities as a hockey player. I loved how JT and Pearson freed up space for Garland last night. This team can dominate possession whenever it stacks up JT-EP-BH as centers.

 

An obvious thing we should do is trade him for 3 pieces if he doesn't want to re-sign this summer. But if he does want to re-sign with us on a reasonable deal say 5 years 40 mil, I can totally see this team being successful with JT as our 1C and EP 2C for the next 2-3 years. In 2, 3 years EP would take over as 1C and JT would become a 2C and we could still be competitive for the remainder of JT's contract. Again, I'm betting that JT doesn't pull LE. All indication is that he won't given how competitive he is.

 

I think we can still afford Horvat if he comes in at around 6-6.5 mil. But he would be a 3C, a bit expensive but then, he would still log a lot of minutes as a 3C. Although he isn't a good possession player or a play driver, Horvat is a player that can munch minutes against top competition to free up JT and EP to do more damage offensively. Basically Horvat would play the role played by Sutter but with much more offence.

 

The question remains as to how to upgrade our RD and wing. We are missing a top 4RD to partner with Hughes and scoring LW. And if we trade Boeser, we are missing a scoring RW.

 

As I see it, this team is entering a retool one way or the other. 2 year retool to draft and stock up on prospects.

 

This would work -  but don't you think some team out there would offer him 8 x 7?  That leaves 16 million (pre-tax more on that) guaranteed earnings on the table.   To me his contract size starts around 56 and goes as high as 70+ ...40 just isn't going to cut it.    Now the taxes ... and that's why it probably starts at 64 - 8 x 8 would probably be his ask to stay in Vancouver minimum.   He could sign with a contender at 7 x 7 and make the same take home pay, in one less year, in his home country ...Does anyone  really think that's all he's going to get?   We'd have to think 10 x 5 to get him interested in staying for that short of a time.   Look what Stone got.   An 8 year guaranteed 76 million deal.   Which in Vancouver would be around 86 million to match his take home.   We are dreaming if we think Miller is leaving that sort of money on the table. 

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IBatch Canucks Hall-of-Famer

IBatch

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15 hours ago, lmm said:

I was.

it was a contract that was designed to walk him to free agency if he did not significantly increase his point production

So now here we are and Boeser looks like a free agent rental on the trade market at 24 years of age

I don't know what you expected, but this is exactly what I thought would happen the day that contract was presented

anyone holding his rights have the choice to overpay or let Brock walk

We know that.   At the time there were a lot of fans on this site that wanted him locked in long term at 7 plus!  Imagine if that happened instead.    Can go back and review it but don't see much point in that either.   The Pandemic certainly affected this deal - which also was what i was trying to communicate.   Where many on this site felt Brock would be on a long term deal - was close to or at his QO.   With that lens, we had him cheaper for three seasons, and also could then lock him in for the entirety of his career IF he earned it.   Obviously he hasn't .... but he's not that far off either.   Every single article i've read about what his next deal will look like with the actual comps, had him at 7-8.5% of the cap at the time of his signing (his comps are a bit whack though - he's not Patches for example and he signed in Vegas so times that by 1.164 and that's what the same deal for Patches looks like here - and again he's no Patches even though he's a lot younger) .... i do get it lets him "walk" to free agency.   There is nothing in the rules that says he won't sign for less then his QO too.   IF he wants to stay here, that's what's going to happen, otherwise he's probably getting traded to a place that wants him and he wants to go to. 

 

Edit:  And like i've already pointed  we could take him to arbitration.   85% (which i think you pointed out earlier so thanks for that!)  is close to his value on a long term deal.   Then trade him next season instead - or re-sign him.   He's not a lost cause automatic trade...he's at worst a very good complimentary player at best part of our core still.   I'm not nearly as worried about it as others seem to be.    If the cap kept going up 2-4 over his contract, 7.5 might not even look that bad which has a lot to do with his QO.   Same as Mier's which i think is 10 lol. 

Edited by IBatch
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JM_ Canucks Hall-of-Famer

JM_

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21 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

I could agree with this idea. Good point which I haven't seen brought up yet. By this time in the year though it seems like I can get a good read on whether a player really wants to stay because they love the city, whether it depends on the hockey results from the season, whether they are looking for a big contract, or whether they are putting off their decision to the summer. With Miller he hasn't given me any hope whatsoever with anything he's said in the media. Not a single thing. I currently put him at less than 25% at re-signing.

 

If I was a GM that would be the first order of business. Unfortunately for us we're not privy to those types of talks with JT. However unless he comes straight out to management and indicates he has a burning desire to stay they better be out shopping him hard. There are just so many red flags here he's the most obvious and impactful play we have.

 

The beauty of this situation is it's not like anyone dislikes JT as a player. I mean he's great out there. Worst case scenario we keep a really good player for another year. Would they then make other moves to go for it? Who knows what the team would be like next year. I would hate to see it but I can just imagine us keeping him and then him walking with us getting nothing or very little in a trade chip. Hockey teams need to make strong, bold moves in order to accentuate the product on the ice. If JB was running the team still this wouldn't even be a conversation really but here we are with a new huge management team.

 

They like all new GM's have the opportunity to put their stamp on the team moving forward. It'll be so very interesting to see what direction they choose. Especially with us hanging on in this playoff race with a month left.

 

Do you think after getting to Vancouver and seeing how insane our fanbase is they're possibly terrified of making any moves for fear of the outrage and stupid media they'll face? :emot-parrot:

 

Any who, sorry to talk your ear off JM. :P Have yourself a good day sir!

it's s'all good. 

 

I know people are concerned about losing some trade value if we don't move on Miller soon, but the downside isn't really that bad, we'll have a super-motivated Miller for one more year that we still might move at next years TDL.

 

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JM_ Canucks Hall-of-Famer

JM_

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19 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Can't say I'm keen on this tbh, because I'm honestly not sold on the idea of holding onto him next season for a playoff push and then potentially having him walk for nothing

 

I'm of the opinion that be it at this deadline, the draft, next deadline, or somewhere in between that we need to get something for him

 

I'm tired of simply chasing the playoffs hoping to get in, I want management to build this team up patiently and getting assets for Miller could go a long ways towards doing just that

 

I'm tired of always letting players walk for nothing, we should absolutely be sellers this year 

I get that,  but players do go to UFA all the time if teams are making a playoff run. Its just my preference, if we're getting lowballed on Miller I'd rather keep him. &^@# other teams. 

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