[Waivers] Olli Juolevi (claimed by Red Wings)

[IBatch]

On 3/5/2022 at 2:20 PM, nergish said:

Jeeze, what an absolute bust of a pick.

I know everybody loves to bring up the fact that we passed on M. Tkachuk, but I personally had Chychrun 3rd overall that year. 
Going into that season I think I even had him at 1st (until Matthews and Laine leapfrogged the competition).

 

How tf could anyone take Juolevi ahead of Chychrun??? Why did he fall to 16th OA???

Chychrun was the better skater, had more size, better offensive tools, and ultimately is the better defender. 

 

That's without even mentioning Sergachev, McAvoy, Fabbro...

I've been following prospects for decades now and can't ever say "i had so so here and there"   that's kind of silly.   OJ was ranked close to where he was picked and if you re-call there were reasons Chychrun slipped (and valid at the time) and nobody was talking about McAvoy in the top ten...Sergechev was also considered high risk - defensively a lot of work to do yet.   Chychrun had a man body the year before, and at the time was considered a front runner for first overall...but by the draft wasn't in the top ten - why?  Injuries and World Juniors.   WAY too much stock is taken on that tournament, pros that rank prospects lose their minds over it - such was the case with OJ.   He wasn't really even a solid first rounder to start the season let alone a top ten pick .... he worked his way up the rankings to the first round - and as high a 9ish ... but certainly saw his stock go up because of that Finnish team.   Stupid.    Mathew T was the BPA as far a rankings go, wasn't supposed to make it to 5.    That was a terrible draft for us.    Back to the start, taking the aggregate of the ISS, THN, Button and McKenzie, maybe a few other's - how can us mere mortals say i had so and so here and there?    Get we all had our favourites, for me it was PLD - gone though.   And i threw the remote when we picked OJ.   Also preferred Chychrun IF we were going to move away from BPA into a defensemen.  9-11 was a common them for both those guys going into the draft.   

 

OJ was considered to have the highest floor of any of those guys including Chychrun.    Can say JB did make up for it after with EP - who a some didn't even think could play in the NHL given his stick thin physique.  

 

Beware the World Juniors.   It moves guys up that shouldn't all the time. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by IBatch

[Dazzle]

5 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

You act as if i care about your opinion LOL

 

Keep your pompoms in the prospects forum fanboy

 

 

Oh, so you can talk about prospects, but I can't? Nice gatekeeping.

[Westcoastcanucks777]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:11 AM, Tower102 said:

He won way more trades than he lost. 

maybe they are secretly keeping Jimbo as a scout...mysterious

[Me_]

Looks like Juolevi couldn’t stick with the Canucks, Panthers and now the Red Wings…

 

Juolevi’s Future

[Plaguez]

1 minute ago, Me_ said:

Looks like Juolevi couldn’t stick with the Canucks, Panthers and now the Red Wings…

 

Juolevi’s Future

Read that too. My opinion is he's lazy. The only trait all coaches hate is someone who just won't work hard. The talent is there but I think he relies on talent alone. Maybe he grows up in 2-3 years and starts working hard? Who knows. Definitely a failed pick.

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, PLOGUE said:

Read that too. My opinion is he's lazy. The only trait all coaches hate is someone who just won't work hard. The talent is there but I think he relies on talent alone. Maybe he grows up in 2-3 years and starts working hard? Who knows. Definitely a failed pick.

Olli is soft in the head. Not Virtanen (dumb) soft, but just lacks any internal compete.  He is likely the Fortnight guy mentioned in those earlier posts about some high drafted Finn who played that game way too much.  Everyone watching that OJ draft knew we should have taken Tkachuk.  Another Benning pick, where he overruled the scouts.  Just killed our chances for a good rebuild.  

[Ghostsof1915]

Gillis and Benning were not the answer.

They were polar opposites of what their strengths were.

 

Gillis could trade, manage. But couldn't draft to save his life.

Benning could trade, and draft, but couldn't manage to save his life.

 

In they end they both failed in different ways.

 

 

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Gillis and Benning were not the answer.

They were polar opposites of what their strengths were.

 

Gillis could trade, manage. But couldn't draft to save his life.

Benning could trade, and draft, but couldn't manage to save his life.

 

In they end they both failed in different ways.

 

 

Gillis would be fine in role where he had no input over hockey related decisions.  He couldn't trade effectively either.

[King Heffy]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Olli is soft in the head. Not Virtanen (dumb) soft, but just lacks any internal compete.  He is likely the Fortnight guy mentioned in those earlier posts about some high drafted Finn who played that game way too much.  Everyone watching that OJ draft knew we should have taken Tkachuk.  Another Benning pick, where he overruled the scouts.  Just killed our chances for a good rebuild.  

Still a good choice to not take Tkachuk due to the character issues.  Chychrun or Sergachev would look good there though.

[Me_]

4 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Still a good choice to not take Tkachuk due to the character issues.  Chychrun or Sergachev would look good there though.

What character issues???

 

They compete super hard and are from a family of winners.

[King Heffy]

5 minutes ago, Me_ said:

What character issues???

 

They compete super hard and are from a family of winners.

I'd rather not have a gutless coward who turtles when it's time to answer the bell and throws tantrums when his teammates are sick of him disgracing the sport.  The beached whale that piece of trash calls a father didn't win anything either.  You can't have someone like Tkachuk on a respectable team.

 

[ktcy2]

It’s a mystery what happened to this man. What could’ve triggered such a complete fall from grace? I mean Benning wasn’t the only one who had him high on the wish list. A lot of scouts put him up there in the top positions. Is it style of play? Injuries? Fortnight? This is some sort of a mystery warranting a documentary series almost. 

[DrJockitch]

3 minutes ago, ktcy2 said:

It’s a mystery what happened to this man. What could’ve triggered such a complete fall from grace? I mean Benning wasn’t the only one who had him high on the wish list. A lot of scouts put him up there in the top positions. Is it style of play? Injuries? Fortnight? This is some sort of a mystery warranting a documentary series almost. 

He was a player in an odd spot when he was drafted. At that time the league was transitioning to a speed/possession game quickly. 
He was well regarded for his passing and quick ups and decent size but foot speed was always a concern. 
A player with features of the new school NHL but a significant shortcoming that then was made worse with significant back and knee injuries combined with what appears to have been a general lack overall dedication to fitness/professionalism. 
He could probably have made up for it without the injuries or with a single minded dedication. Bouchard in Edmonton is a decent example of this. 
If he had a little more Podz’s work ethic in him he would probably be our 2nd pairing left D.

[73 Percent]

8 minutes ago, ktcy2 said:

It’s a mystery what happened to this man. What could’ve triggered such a complete fall from grace? I mean Benning wasn’t the only one who had him high on the wish list. A lot of scouts put him up there in the top positions. Is it style of play? Injuries? Fortnight? This is some sort of a mystery warranting a documentary series almost. 

I don't want to be that guy but I was never high on him enough to fall from anywhere. Other than a decent first pass and awareness he had nothing to offer.

 

Size. No

Skating. No

Shot. No

Stick work. No

Physicality. No

[King Heffy]

5 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

He was a player in an odd spot when he was drafted. At that time the league was transitioning to a speed/possession game quickly. 
He was well regarded for his passing and quick ups and decent size but foot speed was always a concern. 
A player with features of the new school NHL but a significant shortcoming that then was made worse with significant back and knee injuries combined with what appears to have been a general lack overall dedication to fitness/professionalism. 
He could probably have made up for it without the injuries or with a single minded dedication. Bouchard in Edmonton is a decent example of this. 
If he had a little more Podz’s work ethic in him he would probably be our 2nd pairing left D.

The Bouchard comparison is damning considering how much of a liability that pylon is.

[Ghostsof1915]

8 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

I don't want to be that guy but I was never high on him enough to fall from anywhere. Other than a decent first pass and awareness he had nothing to offer.

 

Size. No

Skating. No

Shot. No

Stick work. No

Physicality. No

6'2" and 182 lbs? Ok not bulk, but he had height.

[Eddie]

20 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

I don't want to be that guy but I was never high on him enough to fall from anywhere. Other than a decent first pass and awareness he had nothing to offer.

 

Size. No

Skating. No

Shot. No

Stick work. No

Physicality. No

While true - the same could be said for Edler who was a big comparison at the time. High floor ... lowwwer ceiling kinda guy that was projected 2nd pair.  His I.Q also seemed really impressive in his draft year and those break out passes were something that would have looked great on our blue line that couldn't get the puck out to save themselves back then, as you mentioned.   

 

Hope this management group learns from 1st round mistakes like OJ, Jake etc, and really digs into character quality and motivation issues. Tho I'm sure that's hard in a covid distanced draft year.  

 

The Temptation would be to repeat this mistake this year, if i think logically. If we could draft a 'safe' pick for a 2nd pair RHD who wasn't stand out but solid across the board it wouldn't be the worse thing to do for the team and the core, but the OJ case was a great example of BPA over need not really playing out. 

 

[JM_]

24 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

I don't want to be that guy but I was never high on him enough to fall from anywhere. Other than a decent first pass and awareness he had nothing to offer.

 

Size. No

Skating. No

Shot. No

Stick work. No

Physicality. No

he was ranked pretty highly by most scouts: http://www.mynhldraft.com/2016-draft/nhl-draft-rankings/

 

Injuries really did mess with his development. He'd never live up to the Tkachuk pass on him but I do think he'd be on our 2nd pair by now had he never been injured. 

[tas]

1 hour ago, Me_ said:

What character issues???

 

They compete super hard and are from a family of winners.

what has the family won, aside from keith's shelf full of hotdog eating contest trophies?

[Gawdzukes]

On 3/9/2022 at 8:22 AM, IBatch said:

 

 

Beware the World Juniors.   It moves guys up that shouldn't all the time. 

The only caveat I have to that is Canadian World Júnior players. You see a lot of these guys playing on the 3rd, and 4th lines, or not even standing out turn into terrific players. Like Brayden Point, Jeff Carter, Corey Perry, Shea Weber, etc.. It seems like these tournaments actually push these guys to become better still after they realize they have some competition.

 

1 hour ago, PLOGUE said:

Read that too. My opinion is he's lazy. The only trait all coaches hate is someone who just won't work hard. The talent is there but I think he relies on talent alone. Maybe he grows up in 2-3 years and starts working hard? Who knows. Definitely a failed pick.

I remember watching the draft rankings and accepting we took a defence instead of MT. However when I went and watched his game footage I was absolutely appalled how he covered his front net area. It's like he continually lost his mark and positioning on purpose so he could wander around and claim innocence on any goals or accountability. I was very concerned.