A Rutherford offseason (Proposal/Discussion)

[NUCKER67]

16 minutes ago, Alflives said:

How do we move Pearson and Dickinson?  Will Ottawa take them?  

No way VAN is trading picks, so they would maybe have to add Hoglander or Rathbone to trade Dickinson.  I think another team might want Pearson, no idea who that would be. Back to LA?

[Chris12345]

10 minutes ago, KKnight said:

Love Garland. He's such a gamer. He needs to be a part of this team going forward. 

I don't disagree with your statement but there are so many tiny players. I'd focus on beef meaning a smaller guy has to go. 

[JM_]

38 minutes ago, Chris12345 said:

I'm throwing out Shea Weber to the Coyotes everywhere I can.

thats going to be costly for MTL, but they do have a crap ton of picks. Weber has 4 more years at that cap hit. I suspect it would take a 1st and top prospect just to get the conversation started.

[Chris12345]

7 minutes ago, JM_ said:

thats going to be costly for MTL, but they do have a crap ton of picks. Weber has 4 more years at that cap hit. I suspect it would take a 1st and top prospect just to get the conversation started.

Yea I think so too but they took Pronger and Zetterburg for smaller deal than I would have guessed.

 

Plus I think Nashville still eats some?

Edited May 1, 2022 by Chris12345

[KKnight]

53 minutes ago, Chris12345 said:

I don't disagree with your statement but there are so many tiny players. I'd focus on beef meaning a smaller guy has to go. 

Well I think if we are able to do something along the lines of the proposal, we wouldn't have a major issue with size. 

[Crabcakes]

7 hours ago, KKnight said:

Hey guys & gals, 

 

Well considering our worst point in the season with Travis Green, Bruce sure turned this team around. I'm going to take a shot at an offseason proposal. I really feel we must address some major areas, buy saying that our team has some good pieces going forward. We might take a step back next season, but this will definitely put us in a better position in 2 years. 

 

1. We need to move cap space & we have a very good chance of getting great returns, without having to eat money as well. 

 

2. We need to get faster, acquire youth within our cores competitive timeline and use our cap space for smart signings. 

 

3. Defense needs to be addressed with more skill and some more grit. 

 

 

Re-sign -

 

Boudreau - give the man a 2-3 year deal. Get it done.

 

Boeser to a 3 year deal at 6 million per. This rebuilds his trade value, so we're not selling low and makes sense for our cap. 

 

Horvat - 6-7 year deal at 6.5-7 Million per, he is our captain and a very vital piece to our group.

 

Already resigned Spencer Martin. 

 

Resign Lammikko, Highmore, Burroughs to 1 year deals.

 

Dries - 2 way deal

 

Offseason trades -

 

Love Milller, but it makes too much sense to capitalize on his extremely high value now, he won't fit our timeline. Here are some options: 

 

NYR - Miller 

Van - Schneider, Kravstov, 1st and 3rd 

 

LAK - Miller

Van - Turcotte/Vilardi , Grans , 1st and 3rd 

 

Colorado - Miller, Dickinson (25% retention) 

Van - Newhook, Byram, Compher and 2nd

 

I personally think a lot of teams are going to be desperate to improve this offseason with next to no cap space. This makes Miller an extremely attractive commodity. We should make out like bandits in any deal. I would take the NYR package if offered. 

 

Next is Myers - I think there could be a few suitors and we wouldn't have to retain salary while gaining some form of draft capital. Potential suitors - Dallas, Pittsburgh (if Letang isn't resigned), Columbus, Nashville. 

 

If Dickinson isn't included In a Miller deal, we could see if any bites at a 25-30% retention would be possible. 

 

Pearson - trade for draft capital, with a 2 year term and a reasonable cap hit there should be some suitors. 

 

That leaves us with - 

 

? - Pete - Boeser 

Garland - Bo - Podkolzin 

Hoglander - ? - Kravstov 

? - Lammikko - Lockwood 

 

Ex.Highmore 

 

Hughes - Schenn

OEL - Schneider 

Dermott - Poolman

Ex. Burroughs

 

Demko 

Martin 

 

Do I think this team is a playoff team, definitely not, but we're not horrible. I think we can make some bold signings it may pay off for the youth in our lineup. 

 

1st signing - I am very surprised Bergeron is not signed as of yet, he may want the bag before he retires and Boston is up against it. We need a right handed centerman in the worst way. He is a constant selke candidate and he isn't going to require mass term to get a deal done, which is great for us. 

 

Bergeron - 2 years at 8 million per. 

 

2nd signing - Mason Marchment - 4 year deal at 3.5- 4 per. He provides size, speed and some skill, had a career year on a great Florida team. I think he would be a provide the pwf element this team will need going forward. 

 

Lastly - 

 

Noel Accari  - 1 year 2.25 deal , adds grit - right handed center, PK. 

 

Our team - 

 

Marchment - Petey - Boeser 

Garland - Bergeron - Podkolzin

Hoglander - Bo - Kravstov 

Lammikko - Acciari - Lockwood 

 

Ex. Highmore, ? 

 

Hughes - Schenn 

OEL - Schneider 

Dermott - Poolman 

Ex. Burroughs 

 

Demko 

Martin 

 

Summary - Not crazy about the defense, but this is a lot of movement for one offseason. I think we turn some assets into open cap space, youth/speed/upside, along with adding smart signings that don't cripple us going forward. 

 

Out - Miller, Myers, Dickinson, Pearson

 

In - Schneider, Kravstov, Bergeron, Marchment, Acciari, reallocation cap space and gaining draft capital. 

 

 

What do you guys think? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A lot of good ideas here but you're right not to be crazy about the D.  It is much worse.

 

Of course they can't do everything all at once but to move their only top 4 RHD is just adding work to a project that is already big.  Myers is already 32 and has 2 years left on his contract so they will be forced to move on from him soon anyhow.

 

I am going to suggest that the defenseman they target would be a stay at home type who can skate and move the puck and is in the right age group.  It doesn't matter whether they get him via trade or free agency just that they get him.  This is why they need cap flexibility.

 

Letting Boeser walk is the easiest route to shedding cap.  It really sucks to let a quality asset walk but trades nowadays require equal cap going each way.  So if they let him walk it would indirectly allow them to work with north of $5.875 in free cap when opportunity arises.   

 

Miller, I can't decide on because on the 1 hand, he just played his career season and topped the club by 30 points.  He's not always going to be their best player but he is right now.  On the other hand, he is clearly the single player who would net the greatest return.  If they move on Miller, it would be in a deal with a team that would put them over the top and a contender would require an equal cap transaction.  So a Miller trade wouldn't be to free cap space but to avoid cap constraints caused by a future deal to net some young assets.    

[BigTramFan]

4 hours ago, KKnight said:

Miller is going to easily want a 6-7 year deal at 8-9 per I dont think that's the wisest decision. He might have another 3-4 seasons of good hockey left, after that he will probably drop off. 

It's also not just performance and value for money, it is also that the cap becomes quite tight again in 2024/25 when Pettersson, Podkolzin and Rathbone will likely need decent pay rises. We can afford Miller + Horvat + Boeser until that point in time, but then we hit a big snag. My preference is trading both Miller and Boeser this off season for significant assets, but also remaining competitive (if that is possible).

[qwijibo]

3 hours ago, Chris12345 said:

Yea I think so too but they took Pronger and Zetterburg for smaller deal than I would have guessed.

 

Plus I think Nashville still eats some?

A cap floor team will take him.  He was almost moved at the deadline.  He has 4 years at $7.85m but the total payout over that period is $6m.  That means a budget team can show a cap expenditure of $31.5m over that time and only pay $6m. There will be teams interested in a $25m saving. (Hello Arizona) 

[mll]

4 hours ago, JM_ said:

thats going to be costly for MTL, but they do have a crap ton of picks. Weber has 4 more years at that cap hit. I suspect it would take a 1st and top prospect just to get the conversation started.

Not necessarily.  Depends on Arizona's timeline and how much they want to spend during their rebuild/tank.  They've already added Little's contract (2 more seasons at 5.3M) which would signal that they don't plan to spend much more than the floor.  He was part of the deal for the rights of NCAA player Nathan Schmidt (3rd round pick in 2018) - Arizona sent a 4th round pick to Winnipeg.  

 

If they add Weber, they can spend even less.  His contract is likely insured.  He is owed 3M this coming season and then 3x 1M for the final 3 seasons.  

[wildcam]

4 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

No way VAN is trading picks, so they would maybe have to add Hoglander or Rathbone to trade Dickinson.  I think another team might want Pearson, no idea who that would be. Back to LA?

OMG,  we  can not trade picks or young prospects to dump salary. This has to stop???

Retain salary or we are stuck with Pearson or Dickinson for 2 more years... Hoglander 21 has a bright future..Rathbone 22 is going to be a # 4 D man

 In trade with Dickinson  retain 600,000 on his 2.6 million.. Dickinson had injuries and should be better..

Pearson actually played well this year. 

But we can't be trading our young good prospects away...

Previous 2 years 1st rounders now you  want to trade Rathbone or Hoglander..

BIG NO...New management group will not trade youth away..

[wildcam]

Yes  great post,  Miller in trade with NYR, LA or Colorado who ever gives the best return...Anyone of those trade proposals would make us a younger more talented team for years...

[DownUndaCanuck]

I doubt JR is going to make the call, I think it'll come down to our young management team and I don't think they have the Benning-esque balls to pull off a big deal. Miller will probably get re-signed, it'll help us next year but hurt us a bit in 4-5 years.

 

Personally I'd love these to happen:

1 - Re-sign Bo, 7M x 7 years seems fair

2 - Miller to NYR for Schneider + Chytil + 1st

3 - Poolman + Dickinson to whoever for scraps (give them to NYR if they have the cap/want them, otherwise a bottom feeder)

4 - Sign Tierney 3.5M x 3 years (I know Chytil's coming in but look at playoff teams - they have excessive centers who play wing and we're 1 injury away from a Petan/Dries again)

5 - Re-sign Chiasson, let the rest walk

 

Boeser - Pettersson - Podkolzin

Garland - Horvat - Pearson

Chiasson - Tierney - Chytil

Highmore - Lammikko - Hoglander

Lockwood

 

Hughes - Schneider

OEL - Myers

Dermott - Schenn

Rathbone

Burroughs

 

Demko

Martin

 

I think Petey and Podz will be improved and that is a 3rd line who can shutdown opposing team's forwards but also can score some goals. The defence is a bit better with Schneider and you know Rathbone comes in if there's an injury and will be hard to budge when he does. Much more balanced lineup.

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, wildcam said:

OMG,  we  can not trade picks or young prospects to dump salary. This has to stop???

Retain salary or we are stuck with Pearson or Dickinson for 2 more years... Hoglander 21 has a bright future..Rathbone 22 is going to be a # 4 D man

 In trade with Dickinson  retain 600,000 on his 2.6 million.. Dickinson had injuries and should be better..

Pearson actually played well this year. 

But we can't be trading our young good prospects away...

Previous 2 years 1st rounders now you  want to trade Rathbone or Hoglander..

BIG NO...New management group will not trade youth away..

Has our history (under Benning) of trading picks/prospects for older players stopped?  We gave up our third (WE NEED PICKS!) for a fully developed, 26 year old Dermott.  The owner’s influence (direction to win now) continues.  

[wai_lai416]

lol the trade pearson gang is in full force again.. find me a 3.2mil cap hit that can play up and down the top 9.. kill penalties, hits, blocks.. gives u around 35-45 points 15-20 goals in a full season.. pearson is not even a cap issue.. so those that are trying to rid pearson at all cost.. who are you planning on replacing him with?? or u think we have something in our system for league minimum capable of replacing what he brings so u can spend his cap elsewhere?.. it's almost as if you guys are trying to fill the entire bottom 6 with 750-850k guys.. lammiko highmore lockwood hoglander chiasson etc etc

[mll]

23 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol the trade pearson gang is in full force again.. find me a 3.2mil cap hit that can play up and down the top 9.. kill penalties, hits, blocks.. gives u around 35-45 points 15-20 goals in a full season.. pearson is not even a cap issue.. so those that are trying to rid pearson at all cost.. who are you planning on replacing him with?? or u think we have something in our system for league minimum capable of replacing what he brings so u can spend his cap elsewhere?.. it's almost as if you guys are trying to fill the entire bottom 6 with 750-850k guys.. lammiko highmore lockwood hoglander chiasson etc etc

They are trying to trade him per Pagnotta. 

 

[wai_lai416]

57 minutes ago, mll said:

They are trying to trade him per Pagnotta. 

 

ya dumb move imo unless they have a replacement from him pearson brings good value.. but rutherford ridded him once so won't be suprise if he trades him again. unless they already have a replacement for him i wouldnt move him just for the sake of moving him trying to free his cap space when there's dead cap like dickinson and poolman sitting around doing nothing.

[R3aL]

2 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I doubt JR is going to make the call, I think it'll come down to our young management team and I don't think they have the Benning-esque balls to pull off a big deal. Miller will probably get re-signed, it'll help us next year but hurt us a bit in 4-5 years.

 

Personally I'd love these to happen:

1 - Re-sign Bo, 7M x 7 years seems fair

2 - Miller to NYR for Schneider + Chytil + 1st

3 - Poolman + Dickinson to whoever for scraps (give them to NYR if they have the cap/want them, otherwise a bottom feeder)

4 - Sign Tierney 3.5M x 3 years (I know Chytil's coming in but look at playoff teams - they have excessive centers who play wing and we're 1 injury away from a Petan/Dries again)

5 - Re-sign Chiasson, let the rest walk

 

Boeser - Pettersson - Podkolzin

Garland - Horvat - Pearson

Chiasson - Tierney - Chytil

Highmore - Lammikko - Hoglander

Lockwood

 

Hughes - Schneider

OEL - Myers

Dermott - Schenn

Rathbone

Burroughs

 

Demko

Martin

 

I think Petey and Podz will be improved and that is a 3rd line who can shutdown opposing team's forwards but also can score some goals. The defence is a bit better with Schneider and you know Rathbone comes in if there's an injury and will be hard to budge when he does. Much more balanced lineup.

I think on D I would go:

 

OEL-Schneider

Hughes-Schenn

Dermott-Myers 

I could see that kind of a Miller trade happening but not sure how far it moves the needle on the backend

[DownUndaCanuck]

32 minutes ago, R3aL said:

I think on D I would go:

 

OEL-Schneider

Hughes-Schenn

Dermott-Myers 

I could see that kind of a Miller trade happening but not sure how far it moves the needle on the backend

What I'd really like to do is split Myers and OEL up to have more balance of offence/defence in our D pairings. We were one of the lowest scoring defences last year. What about this:

 

Hughes - Schneider

(he's a good physical shutdown guy, a young-man's Tanev with a touch more offensive upside)

 

OEL - Schenn/Dermott

(Would allow OEL to play a bit further up and jump up in the rush more, we know he's got all this untapped offensive ability)

 

Rathbone - Myers

(Myers could be a great mentor for Rathbone, who deserves a shot in the NHL. PPG in the AHL for a while now, he could run our 2nd PP)

 

 

I think it depends on Bruce and how he wants his defence deployed, right now it's one puck mover (Hughes) with 5 defensive guys and occasionally Hunt on our bottom pairing bringing a bit of offence (but often getting caught out defensively).

 

I do like the defensive side of things because it's really stabilised this team since Green (when we gave away 3ish odd man rushes against per game) but there's a way to bring offence without cheating defensively (center hangs back or just don't make stupid offensive plays the way Hunt sometimes does). You rarely see Quinn caught out of position. OEL has this ability too, and I think Rathbone deserves the chance as well.

 

If we don't get Schneider or another young RD, I wonder how Dermott would play alongside Hughes as Schenn gets a bit older and slower?

[wildcam]

Players and media do there season ending interviews sportsnet 650 radio this morning sometime? I am thinking it should start between 10:30 - 11 this morning..

[JM_]

15 hours ago, Chris12345 said:

Yea I think so too but they took Pronger and Zetterburg for smaller deal than I would have guessed.

 

Plus I think Nashville still eats some?

I think NSH only eats it if he retires early.