Nuxfanabroad Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 For every move(or stand pat) one analyzes, one must deal in hypotheticals. Comparing with what mighta' been. It's a drag, but personally feel we must get... younger bigger faster, with more depth... if, (& how?) they do these things..time will tell. In this cap league, best to approach a build like the Avs, Rags or Canes have recently done. Takes wise trades & excellent drafting(dash of Lady Luck as well). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 22 hours ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said: You’re absolutely right. Miller is about to get paid well into his 30s, the kind of contract that works out every once and a while but flops more often then not (there’s an absurd amount of examples but let’s just throw Jamie Benn out there, look at what he’s done from his age 30 season and onward and look at the cap). If we could hypothetically get 3 young pieces (picks and prospects or young players) then that’s multiple holes getting filled at Pennie’s on the dollar. Sometimes a step back is necessary to move forward. JB left this management group with some terrible contracts and they have to work around that, we will be a good team and this management team is poised and making the right decisions. And both Benn and Seguin too were better at a younger age... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv-the-wet-bandit Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 28 minutes ago, IBatch said: And both Benn and Seguin too were better at a younger age... It’s so risky signing players to big money into their mid 30s. Sometimes the hard decision in the moment is the best decision down the road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 On 5/8/2022 at 6:03 PM, J-23 said: They did say they will be making non-emotional moves so I will be looking forward to it. Though actions speak louder. Hopefully they don’t get attached to players and do what’s right. Fans will cry and complain regardless. Like they did when we traded away a 4th liner. LOL I'm a proponent of getting that 4th liner back. The injury probably really messed up his earning potential but we know what we have in Motte so I think we should sign him. With him on the 4th line, there were games where the 4th line carried the team and actually generated goals and scoring chances. Any offense on 4th line completely dried up after Motte left. Even Lammiko was scoring when Motte was here. I do wonder if a few timely goals by the 4ty line after the TDL would have given us a few more wins 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said: For every move(or stand pat) one analyzes, one must deal in hypotheticals. Comparing with what mighta' been. It's a drag, but personally feel we must get... younger bigger faster, with more depth... if, (& how?) they do these things..time will tell. In this cap league, best to approach a build like the Avs, Rags or Canes have recently done. Takes wise trades & excellent drafting(dash of Lady Luck as well). I'm ok with getting younger bigger faster by trading Miller. I appreciate everything he did for us this season but his points came with high risk. He was a gambler and won this year. Long term play with risky passes up the middle, poor puck decisions etc will not bode well as he gets older and slower. The fact 2 of our youngest guys Podz and Petey are the smartest hockey IQ players on this team bodes well for us and we need more of those types of guys. That's how you win. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeygod77 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 THE CANUCKS DONT NEED TO CHANGE MUCH....keep your guys fan favourites etc...go and get two skilled tough role players that have that team toughness and win at all times attitude ...hard to find but i think they change their game plan it will allow the top two lines to put pucks in the net and play a very good game for fans to watch and other teams to fear..i know they say hockey is going to more skill and faster players..thats what cost jim bennnixng and green their jobs...the NHL still has tough guys causing space and playing key roles...just watch the playoffs...more hard hitting team game with guys to back you up and players in the system to be able to step up if needed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 11 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: LOL I'm a proponent of getting that 4th liner back. The injury probably really messed up his earning potential but we know what we have in Motte so I think we should sign him. With him on the 4th line, there were games where the 4th line carried the team and actually generated goals and scoring chances. Any offense on 4th line completely dried up after Motte left. Even Lammiko was scoring when Motte was here. I do wonder if a few timely goals by the 4ty line after the TDL would have given us a few more wins With Motte in the lineup we may have gained another 4-5 points. Co-incidentally, just enough to make the playoffs. I wonder if that 4th round pick was worth not making the playoffs... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Grit Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 20 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: Not sure what your statement has to do with what I wrote. Team is required to offer him a qualifying offer of north of 7 million. He'll of course sign that. Brock ain't going to strike out the 7+ & write down less than that. It's not just his agent who has to deal with but the players union as well (remember when Kesler opened his yap about Burrows should be offering the team a discount, the players union got to Kesler to stop that talk). Interesting point NCF, I wasn't aware of that. You wrote " Boeser has zero reason to sign for 6.25 million when his qualifying offer is just over 7 million. He also has arbitration rights.' Just one Brock contemporary, and there are others: Blue Jackets' Jack Roslovic. Age 24, 6'1, 187lbs, 22goals 23assists cap hit $1,838,362. Canucks' Brock Boeser. Age 24, 6'1, 207lbs 23goals 23assists cap hit $5,875,000. ..... and expecting even more. Worse is that Brock's numbers were put up in his 'contract year'. Brock seems a great guy, surely loved by his teammates and fans alike, but contracts are all math & and comparables. Not sure how even the Players Union will defend his $7mill + worth. Brock signing that QO will make him more attractive in any trade? Brock's numbers should be easily replaced for a lot less and JR desperately needs that cap space saving. JR signs that QO, then I must be missing something, and that wouldn't be a first for me. Loving this thread for learning the details behind how hockey is run, and appreciate your reply NewbieCanuckFan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 1 minute ago, Mo Grit said: Interesting point NCF, I wasn't aware of that. You wrote " Boeser has zero reason to sign for 6.25 million when his qualifying offer is just over 7 million. He also has arbitration rights.' Just one Brock contemporary, and there are others: Blue Jackets' Jack Roslovic. Age 24, 6'1, 187lbs, 22goals 23assists cap hit $1,838,362. Canucks' Brock Boeser. Age 24, 6'1, 207lbs 23goals 23assists cap hit $5,875,000. ..... and expecting even more. Worse is that Brock's numbers were put up in his 'contract year'. Brock seems a great guy, surely loved by his teammates and fans alike, but contracts are all math & and comparables. Not sure how even the Players Union will defend his $7mill + worth. Brock signing that QO will make him more attractive in any trade? Brock's numbers should be easily replaced for a lot less and JR desperately needs that cap space saving. JR signs that QO, then I must be missing something, and that wouldn't be a first for me. Loving this thread for learning the details behind how hockey is run, and appreciate your reply NewbieCanuckFan. I think we can do a reverse arbitration to lower the qualifying offer amount. Apparently it's been done in the past. I dont think Canucks need to drag Boeser through the mud to do it. I think they have to just tell the league they want to do that and then negotiate with Brock's camp where Canucks could go as low as 85% of the qualifying offer. Hopefully Boeser's camp doesn't get greedy and agrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 12 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: With Motte in the lineup we may have gained another 4-5 points. Co-incidentally, just enough to make the playoffs. I wonder if that 4th round pick was worth not making the playoffs... So many what ifs to this season.. What if we canned Green earlier What if aqua an didn't postpone games when we were on a streak... What if our team didn't get derailed by covid What if we kept Motte Lol A lot of bad things had to happen for us to miss the playoffs. That's why I am optimistic for next year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 Anyway if oilers and flames get knocked out first round, I feel like I didn't miss a single thing this year lol Leafs losing as well would be icing on the cake. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Grit Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 Just now, CanucksJay said: I think we can do a reverse arbitration to lower the qualifying offer amount. Apparently it's been done in the past. I dont think Canucks need to drag Boeser through the mud to do it. I think they have to just tell the league they want to do that and then negotiate with Brock's camp where Canucks could go as low as 85% of the qualifying offer. Hopefully Boeser's camp doesn't get greedy and agrees. Dang, I had just put my calculator away. That 85% appears to equal $5,950,000. For how many years on the QO? I really hope they settle without bad feeling, most of all among the core. Again. But JR seems like a hardarse. Mostly optimistic like you CJ, though I sign in here with trepidation, and peek through face-palm fingers. At this moment, all things Canucks could ship in any direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 Other than hiring a bunch of new management types, JR really hasn't done anything so far. Not anything to be worried or happy about the team. We'll see how the offseason shapes up, what the roster looks like in the fall and whether they're playing hockey in the Spring. Then you can start worrying...or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarnBurner Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 On 5/8/2022 at 3:50 PM, aGENT said: Trading Miller doesn't necessarily equate to a step backward with the right return and subsequent moves. There's zero reason this team can't be near/just as competitive next year AND with a better long term outlook, less shaky cap situation, more youth etc. Can't make an omelette.... The fear of loss is greater than the desire of gain. I get it, capitalizing and gaining maximum return instead of diminishing returns, but Miller playing lights out with Horvat, Petey, QH and Demko equals something magical. JT doesn't look like he's slowing down anytime soon. This wasn't his contact year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarnBurner Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 23 hours ago, hammertime said: Sure I'd welcome GM MG and Gillman back. Not with his drafting record or so many NMC. No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 16 minutes ago, Mo Grit said: Dang, I had just put my calculator away. That 85% appears to equal $5,950,000. For how many years on the QO? I really hope they settle without bad feeling, most of all among the core. Again. But JR seems like a hardarse. Mostly optimistic like you CJ, though I sign in here with trepidation, and peek through face-palm fingers. At this moment, all things Canucks could ship in any direction. Yeah I hope management doesn't have tunnel vision in wanting to put their stamp on this team. Allvin traded Motte for a 4th to get an asset for an expiring one. I'm sure he's not gonna just let Boeser go. Hopefully he gets something or keeps Boeser. I would be underwhelmed though if it's like Boeser for a 3rd rounder lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said: Some of Allvin's comments since the TDL lead me too believe they are leaning more towards adding/tweaking than the 'step back' some might've been expecting or hoping for. Everything starts with Miller, and they've laid out the situations pretty clearly. Now it's wait & see how negotiations go. I think given the likelihood that we move Miller, we can't help but have a (small s) "step back". He's a big, impactful player. That's not something you just "replace". But that said, you hopefully sign a Kuzmenko and replace some of that scoring. You have a better defense (hopefully part of Miller's return and other moves) that both transitions the puck better/faster, creates more GF and translates to less GA. You add some depth at C ( Paul, Sturm?) and bring in some better depth/role guys with more speed, grit, ability to PK etc... I've been saying this for months... There's zero reason that with the right return and subsequent moves, that this team can't be just/near as competitive as they were this year with Miller, while also far better positioning themselves moving forward with a better cap outlook, players that better fit the core's age, more speed, grit, more prospects etc.... Even if there's a baby-step back. That's how I've always viewed the "step back" issue anyway. I've never viewed it remotely as all but writing off next season. For those that were looking for a couple year tank... well they're just not paying attention and aren't terribly realistic Edited May 10, 2022 by aGENT 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 Here's an interesting evaluation of JR's trades during his time with the Pens. https://www.pensburgh.com/2017/2/21/14670824/penguins-trade-deadline-jim-rutherford-analysis He certainly has a very defined way of building a Championship team. It's all about the 'pieces' a team needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 4 hours ago, higgyfan said: Here's an interesting evaluation of JR's trades during his time with the Pens. https://www.pensburgh.com/2017/2/21/14670824/penguins-trade-deadline-jim-rutherford-analysis He certainly has a very defined way of building a Championship team. It's all about the 'pieces' a team needs. I like the headline midway through "Jim Benning is not a good GM" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 6 hours ago, CanucksJay said: LOL I'm a proponent of getting that 4th liner back. The injury probably really messed up his earning potential but we know what we have in Motte so I think we should sign him. With him on the 4th line, there were games where the 4th line carried the team and actually generated goals and scoring chances. Any offense on 4th line completely dried up after Motte left. Even Lammiko was scoring when Motte was here. I do wonder if a few timely goals by the 4ty line after the TDL would have given us a few more wins 5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: With Motte in the lineup we may have gained another 4-5 points. Co-incidentally, just enough to make the playoffs. I wonder if that 4th round pick was worth not making the playoffs... Oh for the love of Motte You do know he got injured after 9 games, not saying he would hve got injured if he didn't get traded, but he is injury prone Also Richardson looked pretty good in Mottes place, we probably can't afford Richy if no Motte trade Also if Lammikko and Highmore need Motte that much in order to be useful NHL players, that is good information for a club needing to improve I don't feel the LOVE for the Motto line like some around here I think the team could use an upgrade on all 3 of those players Bigger Better FasterMeaner More Reliable that is the 4th line I want next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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