[Report] Canucks fire Rachel Doerrie

[5nothincanucksohno]

25 minutes ago, Diamonds said:

I can definitely see there having been some friction between Doerrie and Castonguay. Castonguay set a number of precedences and came up while hockey was still very much much an old boys club. I'm sure she's had to have an edge to her to be able to be taken seriously and rise like she did. 

 

Meanwhile, while there are still issues and misogyny in hockey, Doerrie has for the most part come up in the Me Too movement and likely feels that intellect alone should be enough to advance her and hold her place. Doerrie is also on record saying she wants to be the first female GM in the NHL.

 

Of course all of this is speculating, but I can see Castonguay feeling that Doerrie hasn't paid her dues like she did and that Doerrie was acting entitled. Castonguay very possibly made some comments to cut Doerrie down in the same way she would if it were a young male who was a little big for their britches. While not intentionally malicious, without understanding Doerrie's history Doerrie may have felt that she was being singled out unfairly and that it was workplace abuse.

 

Again all speculating, but I can certainly see it being possible that Castonguay said/did something without malicious intent but that was taken maliciously due to the difference in their experiences. 

Seems like a reasonable review of things

 

Given Dooerrie's responses/comments/etc. over this period, a certain level of entitlement appears to be at play here. If Castonguay said what she is accused of, it isn't appropriate but it doesn't seem to warrant the response we are now seeing from Dooerrie - who seems to be better suited for a less pressure packed industry/job. 

 

 

 

[RU SERIOUS]

Poor little Millennial......

 

 

[Quantum]

After reading the complaint, this is how I'm feeling about all of this.

 

Emilie Castonguay clearly behaved in a "mean girl" way. Unfortunately, in a male dominated sport like hockey, I think women in positions of power in hockey may be more ruthless than most. I think she overplayed her hand here and comes out of this looking ugly. I do believe Castonguay is going to be a GM in the league sooner than later (She's been a favorite to be the first female NHL GM for awhile). She also comes from the world of NHL player agents which is an even more ruthless side to the sport than management. Castonguay is going to have a hard time getting out of this looking good. I think there's an unfair expectation that because the Canucks hired two female executives + Doerrie that there would be this great comradeship between the three but that was clearly not the case here. Doerrie may have acted naively but Castonguay went above and beyond to other Doerrie and her comments about Doerrie's mental health come across as straight up nasty, if true.  And, based on the traction this story is getting, one thing is certain -- Castonguay was wrong that "nobody cares about Doerrie". Seems like a lot of people do. I wish her luck with her future endeavors. I think Doerrie's got a bright future in the sport if she wants it. Canucks screwed up royally letting one of the more intriguing young minds in hockey go like this. It feels like Castonguay (and to an extent Allvin) have greatly misunderstood what kind of media market the Canucks have thinking this story would just... go away.

 

Allvin clearly overstepped. I'm not sure there's a way to defend Allvin's actions here. Doerrie went to HR and before the HR department could complete its investigation, Allvin fired Doerrie. That's a big no, no. He needed to allow the investigation to take place and then make a decision with HR involved. By only taking Castonguay's word about her interactions with Doerrie, he opened himself and the Canucks to this lawsuit. Honestly, it shows Allvin's clear inexperience in this field. I'm surprised Rutherford didn't step in to mend this before it got to the point where this could happen. Rutherford let Doerrie down.

 

This is one sided. We don't know Castonguay and Allvin's side yet. This does feel like a classic case of miscommunication. It also shows Castonguay and Allvin's inexperience when it comes to the roles they are in -- not from a hockey management perspective but a people management perspective. I do think the Canucks, as an organization, end up paying out Doerrie a settlement. Since this whole thing seems to have come up because Boudreau let it slip that Doerrie had been promoted to the coaching staff and it seems clear she wasn't talking to the media besides confirming a thing that Boudreau said publicly at a golf tournament.

 

Makes you wonder, if all the rumors of a rift between Rutherford/Allvin/Boudreau are true -- was Doerrie the first casualty in that cold war?

Edited November 28, 2022 by Quantum

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, Goal:thecup said:

I don't know Timrafan, I just seem to recall several posts where people thought he didn't confer with the larger group enough on this hire.

It seems to me that if he had dug deeper into it, he would have realized she could not handle a position like this in a high profile market.

She had already obviously misread the situation herself and had several inappropriate public bloopers and been let go from an NHL team.

Also, I imagine that there are several candidates for a position like this, regardless of sex, race, etc, that would be very good hires and appreciative of the opportunity.

 

I would assume JR hired the person one or two step higher than Dorrie and that person hired Her.

Why should he hire personnel further down in the organisation?

 

[Goal:thecup]

2 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

I would assume JR hired the person one or two step higher than Dorrie and that person hired Her.

Why should he hire personnel further down in the organisation?

 

I don't know the details of the organizational structure.

But I think we were told that she reported to Castigliano as her direct supervisor.

I guess all I'm saying is, somebody messed up suggesting Doerrie was capable of such a stressful position with her health issues.

 

[Timråfan]

3 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said:

I don't know the details of the organizational structure.

But I think we were told that she reported to Castigliano as her direct supervisor.

I guess all I'm saying is, somebody messed up suggesting Doerrie was capable of such a stressful position with her health issues.

 

Agree, but I don't understand what JR got to do with it.

 

Is it someone with an agenda smearing JR with sh*t all the tim or just foolish fans?

Almost everything that happens is JRs fault it seems 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Timråfan

[Goal:thecup]

3 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

Agree, but I don't understand what JR got to do with it.

 

Is it someone with an agenda smearing JR with sh*t all the tim or just foolish fans?

Almost everything that happens is JRs fault it seems 

Well she was hired in the big flurry on new hires that JR oversaw.

Whether he signed off on this 'bottom' position or not, somebody must have thought she could handle it, and they were wrong.

[Smashian Kassian]

2 hours ago, Gurn said:

If you are going to say she breached her contract:

 

you should post her contract here. Just so the rest of us can read it too.

 

Obviously we don't have access to her contract, I've read things elsewhere that some sort of media policy is standard & off the top of my head when Ryan Biech was hired by the Canucks he went from a media personality regularly on radio/tweeting to no media appearances whatsoever & no tweets related to hockey. 

 

There's likely more to it since she continued to work after that, but it seems like going to HR to complain about Castonguay was the tipping point & the Canucks decided it wasn't worth having her around.

 

Also forgot to mention originally, but the comparison to Mike Yeo is silly. Were talking about multi time head coach taking a front facing role compared to a behind the scenes role in the analytics staff.

 

[Alflives]

51 minutes ago, Quantum said:

After reading the complaint, this is how I'm feeling about all of this.

 

Emilie Castonguay clearly behaved in a "mean girl" way. Unfortunately, in a male dominated sport like hockey, I think women in positions of power in hockey may be more ruthless than most. I think she overplayed her hand here and comes out of this looking ugly. I do believe Castonguay is going to be a GM in the league sooner than later (She's been a favorite to be the first female NHL GM for awhile). She also comes from the world of NHL player agents which is an even more ruthless side to the sport than management. Castonguay is going to have a hard time getting out of this looking good. I think there's an unfair expectation that because the Canucks hired two female executives + Doerrie that there would be this great comradeship between the three but that was clearly not the case here. Doerrie may have acted naively but Castonguay went above and beyond to other Doerrie and her comments about Doerrie's mental health come across as straight up nasty, if true.  And, based on the traction this story is getting, one thing is certain -- Castonguay was wrong that "nobody cares about Doerrie". Seems like a lot of people do. I wish her luck with her future endeavors. I think Doerrie's got a bright future in the sport if she wants it. Canucks screwed up royally letting one of the more intriguing young minds in hockey go like this. It feels like Castonguay (and to an extent Allvin) have greatly misunderstood what kind of media market the Canucks have thinking this story would just... go away.

 

Allvin clearly overstepped. I'm not sure there's a way to defend Allvin's actions here. Doerrie went to HR and before the HR department could complete its investigation, Allvin fired Doerrie. That's a big no, no. He needed to allow the investigation to take place and then make a decision with HR involved. By only taking Castonguay's word about her interactions with Doerrie, he opened himself and the Canucks to this lawsuit. Honestly, it shows Allvin's clear inexperience in this field. I'm surprised Rutherford didn't step in to mend this before it got to the point where this could happen. Rutherford let Doerrie down.

 

This is one sided. We don't know Castonguay and Allvin's side yet. This does feel like a classic case of miscommunication. It also shows Castonguay and Allvin's inexperience when it comes to the roles they are in -- not from a hockey management perspective but a people management perspective. I do think the Canucks, as an organization, end up paying out Doerrie a settlement. Since this whole thing seems to have come up because Boudreau let it slip that Doerrie had been promoted to the coaching staff and it seems clear she wasn't talking to the media besides confirming a thing that Boudreau said publicly at a golf tournament.

 

Makes you wonder, if all the rumors of a rift between Rutherford/Allvin/Boudreau are true -- was Doerrie the first casualty in that cold war?

Sure sounds like Dorrie was treated badly.  But because she spoke up, I wonder if she will ever get another job in the league?  Unfair for sure, but speaking out like this can get a person blacklisted, no? 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Quantum said:

After reading the complaint, this is how I'm feeling about all of this.

 

Emilie Castonguay clearly behaved in a "mean girl" way. Unfortunately, in a male dominated sport like hockey, I think women in positions of power in hockey may be more ruthless than most. I think she overplayed her hand here and comes out of this looking ugly. I do believe Castonguay is going to be a GM in the league sooner than later (She's been a favorite to be the first female NHL GM for awhile). She also comes from the world of NHL player agents which is an even more ruthless side to the sport than management. Castonguay is going to have a hard time getting out of this looking good. I think there's an unfair expectation that because the Canucks hired two female executives + Doerrie that there would be this great comradeship between the three but that was clearly not the case here. Doerrie may have acted naively but Castonguay went above and beyond to other Doerrie and her comments about Doerrie's mental health come across as straight up nasty, if true.  And, based on the traction this story is getting, one thing is certain -- Castonguay was wrong that "nobody cares about Doerrie". Seems like a lot of people do. I wish her luck with her future endeavors. I think Doerrie's got a bright future in the sport if she wants it. Canucks screwed up royally letting one of the more intriguing young minds in hockey go like this. It feels like Castonguay (and to an extent Allvin) have greatly misunderstood what kind of media market the Canucks have thinking this story would just... go away.

 

Allvin clearly overstepped. I'm not sure there's a way to defend Allvin's actions here. Doerrie went to HR and before the HR department could complete its investigation, Allvin fired Doerrie. That's a big no, no. He needed to allow the investigation to take place and then make a decision with HR involved. By only taking Castonguay's word about her interactions with Doerrie, he opened himself and the Canucks to this lawsuit. Honestly, it shows Allvin's clear inexperience in this field. I'm surprised Rutherford didn't step in to mend this before it got to the point where this could happen. Rutherford let Doerrie down.

 

This is one sided. We don't know Castonguay and Allvin's side yet. This does feel like a classic case of miscommunication. It also shows Castonguay and Allvin's inexperience when it comes to the roles they are in -- not from a hockey management perspective but a people management perspective. I do think the Canucks, as an organization, end up paying out Doerrie a settlement. Since this whole thing seems to have come up because Boudreau let it slip that Doerrie had been promoted to the coaching staff and it seems clear she wasn't talking to the media besides confirming a thing that Boudreau said publicly at a golf tournament.

 

Makes you wonder, if all the rumors of a rift between Rutherford/Allvin/Boudreau are true -- was Doerrie the first casualty in that cold war?

1. Castonguay doesn't look bad at all in any of this. Rachel comes off as a spoiled employee who couldn't handle criticism. 

 

2. We do have a response letter from Castonguay. 

 

3. Rachel was tasked with cutting up video footage for the coaching staff. That was it. 

One could argue that one of many personal trainers on the team had a more important job then Rachel.  

 

I would 10 out of 10 times hire someone like Emilie over Rachel. 

Rachel embodies all the worst qualities that get attributed to millennials who've never had to work hard in their life and claim abuse and harassment whenever something doesn't go their way. Pettiness seems to be very high as well. 

[Petey Castiglione]

39 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Obviously we don't have access to her contract, I've read things elsewhere that some sort of media policy is standard & off the top of my head when Ryan Biech was hired by the Canucks he went from a media personality regularly on radio/tweeting to no media appearances whatsoever & no tweets related to hockey. 

 

There's likely more to it since she continued to work after that, but it seems like going to HR to complain about Castonguay was the tipping point & the Canucks decided it wasn't worth having her around.

 

Also forgot to mention originally, but the comparison to Mike Yeo is silly. Were talking about multi time head coach taking a front facing role compared to a behind the scenes role in the analytics staff.

 

The comparison to Yeo is what peaked my interest.  The guy is literally an Associate Coach and will sometimes get media questions directly, which he has to answer.  He's not seeking it out or "talking to a friend" in the media.  It seems like she needs to throw that part in there as a "hey he did so what about me" without realizing it's part of the coaching staff's job to speak to media and her job is not to.  Also, when do you see head coaches tweet about their new jobs or promotions?  Never, they get interviewed.  Video coaches don't.  Hell I couldn't even tell you who our video coach has been this millennium and like many others, we're on here everyday! 

[Smashian Kassian]

9 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

1. Castonguay doesn't look bad at all in any of this. Rachel comes off as a spoiled employee who couldn't handle criticism. 

 

2. We do have a response letter from Castonguay. 

 

3. Rachel was tasked with cutting up video footage for the coaching staff. That was it. 

One could argue that one of many personal trainers on the team had a more important job then Rachel.  

 

I would 10 out of 10 times hire someone like Emilie over Rachel. 

Rachel embodies all the worst qualities that get attributed to millennials who've never had to work hard in their life and claim abuse and harassment whenever something doesn't go their way. Pettiness seems to be very high as well. 

 

I agree with most of this but on its face it does make Castonguay look bad imo.

 

Iain McIntyre made an interesting point this morning saying that people think Castonguay could be the 1st female GM ever & this could potentially be damaging to her reputation.. 

 

That said I tend to think there is much more to the story than Emilie just being vengeful for some unexplained reason.

 

[Quantum]

17 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

1. Castonguay doesn't look bad at all in any of this. Rachel comes off as a spoiled employee who couldn't handle criticism. 

 

2. We do have a response letter from Castonguay. 

 

3. Rachel was tasked with cutting up video footage for the coaching staff. That was it. 

One could argue that one of many personal trainers on the team had a more important job then Rachel.  

 

I would 10 out of 10 times hire someone like Emilie over Rachel. 

Rachel embodies all the worst qualities that get attributed to millennials who've never had to work hard in their life and claim abuse and harassment whenever something doesn't go their way. Pettiness seems to be very high as well. 

Well, if you read what I said you'd know this.

 

1) Consensus seems to be that Castonguay is taking heat for this. So you're wrong in saying that she "doesn't look bad at all in any of this". She's not looking good. She also doesn't look like a monster either. What I do think is that Castonguay had the right to tell Allvin what she knew/what her interactions were with Doerrie. With that said, it seems as if Allvin interfered with a HR investigation by preemptively firing Doerrie before an investigation could be complete.

 

An HR investigation would have yielded one of four definitive results. Castonguay is reprimanded if HR felt Doerrie's complaints were warranted, Doerrie is reprimanded if HR felt Doerrie's complaints were unwarranted, HR uncovers that Doerrie was behind team leaks and is fired, HR uncovers that Doerrie was not the source behind any leaks, Castonguay's fears are unwarranted, back to business as usual. The reason this management group is taking heat is because, like what's been seen a lot in hockey as of recently, they didn't follow proper workplace protocol and let the investigation take place.

 

Legally, Doerrie is going to make the argument that Allvin & company unfairly damaged her reputation by assuming she was leaking information to the media and she's going to likely win some sort of settlement because they did use that as the reason to fire her even though they didn't have any evidence to suggest she was leaking anything. That's actually what this case comes down too. All of the mental and physical health stuff is, unfortunately, just filler.

 

I don't agree with you that Rachel comes off as a spoiled employee who can't handle criticism. I think she's rightfully upset that she didn't get a chance to defend herself through proper channels (HR). Frankly, it's kind of a boomer comment to say she's entitled when that doesn't seem to be the case. And even if she had some entitlement, the organization did parade her out in front of cameras with Castonguay and Granato earlier this year to celebrate their hirings publicly which could have inflated Doerrie's ego given her position in the organization compared to Castonguay and Granato.

 

2) Yes, we do have a response letter. That's true. It's short and generic. It doesn't say much of anything. It's a copy and paste statement (which is totally fine and what Castonguay has been advised to do by Canucks attorney's) but let's not say that really covers any of the allegations Doerrie lays out. With that said, this story is still very One Sided because we have a small statement from Castonguay and a multi page legal complaint from Doerrie to compare.

 

3) How many 25 year olds are working at high levels of NHL management? Most 25 year olds are still near the bottom of the barrel. Cutting video footage isn't a glamorous job but I'm sure there's hundreds of 25 year old's right now cutting video footage for CHL teams (and below) instead of doing it for an NHL team. Her rise has been remarkable and she's been praised as one of the more promising young minds in hockey for quite some time. (Rachel Doerrie worked for the Devils before joining the Canucks and she did comment how the Canucks weren't the only team trying to hire her earlier this year, so she's got industry heat).

 

As I said in my original post, I do believe Castonguay is going to be a GM in the league. Most likely the first female GM. Perhaps the first female GM/President. It feels like a given. This might be a setback for her momentarily but I don't think this costs her much long term, it's just a stinger short term for her and the organization. As I said also, this whole situation feels like it comes down to inexperience. Inexperience from Castonguay/Allvin in how to handle a situation like this and inexperience from Doerrie for maybe being too enthusiastic with the media. It's a classic case of miscommunication.

 

And the last comment about entitled millennials is *very* sad sack boomer of you, dude. You can make an argument but there's no need to punch down like that.

[FijianCanuck]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Sure sounds like Dorrie was treated badly.  But because she spoke up, I wonder if she will ever get another job in the league?  Unfair for sure, but speaking out like this can get a person blacklisted, no? 

She’s done with hockey jobs so she let it all out. 

[Oregon.Duck]

Sure as hell sounds like Doerrie tried to create leverage for that promotion through getting it published (without approval of Canuck leadership), so it couldn't be taken away. Castonguay wanted none of it. Doerrie was at risk employed and violated her contract.

 

Sounds like something not beneath Doerrie based on her reputation, time at the Devils, they way she talked about previous and current employers. Seemed like she was highly intelligent, but a terrible person to work with. Probably made it an easy decision for Castonguay.

 

Burden on truth is on Doerrie, let's she how far this goes.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Oregon.Duck

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, Oregon.Duck said:

Sure as hell sounds like Doerrie tried to create leverage for that promotion through getting it published

You believe she created leverage; because Bruce announced her promotion at a golf tourney?

 

[DeNiro]

1 hour ago, Oregon.Duck said:

Sure as hell sounds like Doerrie tried to create leverage for that promotion through getting it published (without approval of Canuck leadership), so it couldn't be taken away. Castonguay wanted none of it. Doerrie was at risk employed and violated her contract.

 

Sounds like something not beneath Doerrie based on her reputation, time at the Devils, they way she talked about previous and current employers. Seemed like she was highly intelligent, but a terrible person to work with. Probably made it an easy decision for Castonguay.

 

Burden on truth is on Doerrie, let's she how far this goes.

If management had done their basic homework on her they would have never hired her.

 

Its obvious she leaks info to the media. Castonguay probably knew this in her role as an agent.

 

Add to that the fact that it states she’s good friends with Patrick Johnston. No wonder JR canned her. He doesn’t need the media having unlimited access to their discussions.

[Boudrias]

4 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

 

   RRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrRRRRRRR !!!!!!

Now that is politically incorrect!

[AV.]

7 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

If management had done their basic homework on her they would have never hired her.

 

Its obvious she leaks info to the media. Castonguay probably knew this in her role as an agent.

 

Add to that the fact that it states she’s good friends with Patrick Johnston. No wonder JR canned her. He doesn’t need the media having unlimited access to their discussions.

Lol.

The same Jim Rutherford who jumps at every opportunity to do media duty and give as much candid and open dialogue as possible regarding players, coaches, trading, etc?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Quantum said:

Well, if you read what I said you'd know this.

 

1) Consensus seems to be that Castonguay is taking heat for this. So you're wrong in saying that she "doesn't look bad at all in any of this". She's not looking good. She also doesn't look like a monster either. What I do think is that Castonguay had the right to tell Allvin what she knew/what her interactions were with Doerrie. With that said, it seems as if Allvin interfered with a HR investigation by preemptively firing Doerrie before an investigation could be complete.

 

An HR investigation would have yielded one of four definitive results. Castonguay is reprimanded if HR felt Doerrie's complaints were warranted, Doerrie is reprimanded if HR felt Doerrie's complaints were unwarranted, HR uncovers that Doerrie was behind team leaks and is fired, HR uncovers that Doerrie was not the source behind any leaks, Castonguay's fears are unwarranted, back to business as usual. The reason this management group is taking heat is because, like what's been seen a lot in hockey as of recently, they didn't follow proper workplace protocol and let the investigation take place.

 

Legally, Doerrie is going to make the argument that Allvin & company unfairly damaged her reputation by assuming she was leaking information to the media and she's going to likely win some sort of settlement because they did use that as the reason to fire her even though they didn't have any evidence to suggest she was leaking anything. That's actually what this case comes down too. All of the mental and physical health stuff is, unfortunately, just filler.

 

I don't agree with you that Rachel comes off as a spoiled employee who can't handle criticism. I think she's rightfully upset that she didn't get a chance to defend herself through proper channels (HR). Frankly, it's kind of a boomer comment to say she's entitled when that doesn't seem to be the case. And even if she had some entitlement, the organization did parade her out in front of cameras with Castonguay and Granato earlier this year to celebrate their hirings publicly which could have inflated Doerrie's ego given her position in the organization compared to Castonguay and Granato.

 

2) Yes, we do have a response letter. That's true. It's short and generic. It doesn't say much of anything. It's a copy and paste statement (which is totally fine and what Castonguay has been advised to do by Canucks attorney's) but let's not say that really covers any of the allegations Doerrie lays out. With that said, this story is still very One Sided because we have a small statement from Castonguay and a multi page legal complaint from Doerrie to compare.

 

3) How many 25 year olds are working at high levels of NHL management? Most 25 year olds are still near the bottom of the barrel. Cutting video footage isn't a glamorous job but I'm sure there's hundreds of 25 year old's right now cutting video footage for CHL teams (and below) instead of doing it for an NHL team. Her rise has been remarkable and she's been praised as one of the more promising young minds in hockey for quite some time. (Rachel Doerrie worked for the Devils before joining the Canucks and she did comment how the Canucks weren't the only team trying to hire her earlier this year, so she's got industry heat).

 

As I said in my original post, I do believe Castonguay is going to be a GM in the league. Most likely the first female GM. Perhaps the first female GM/President. It feels like a given. This might be a setback for her momentarily but I don't think this costs her much long term, it's just a stinger short term for her and the organization. As I said also, this whole situation feels like it comes down to inexperience. Inexperience from Castonguay/Allvin in how to handle a situation like this and inexperience from Doerrie for maybe being too enthusiastic with the media. It's a classic case of miscommunication.

 

And the last comment about entitled millennials is *very* sad sack boomer of you, dude. You can make an argument but there's no need to punch down like that.

You are in the minority when it comes to thinking that this looks bad on Castonguay. 

 

Rachel was not "working in high management". 

 

This has been a very bad look on Rachel. She has done nothing to help her own case along the way.