This management group thus far: Laziness? Incompetence? Victims of cap issues?

[Gurn]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

12 games this year compared to the previous three years.  Miller is a first line guy, and he’s on an excellent contract.  

 

Miller was a first line guy;  and his contract is a bit too much, for way too long.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Keep:

 

Pettersson

Horvat

Kuzmenko

Garland

Aman

Studnicka

Lazar

Hughes

Schenn

Dermott

Bear

Demko (I think he can bounce back)

Martin

 

Trade everyone else, bring in cheaper vets to get through the season. Collect 2023 and 2024 Draft picks. It doesn't have to be a complete tear down.

Oksy, but how do we move guys like OEL, Myers, Pearson without adding picks and prospects for another team to take them? Dickinson cost us a second and taking back Stillman.  I think we are stuck with some older, overpaid, underperforming guys.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, gurn said:

Miller was a first line guy;  and his contract is a bit too much, for way too long.

12 games and he’s 29.  Miller is a first line guy.  He’s one of the top point producing players in the league over these last three seasons.  And he’s big.  And he plays heavy.  

Miller isn’t the problem here.  

[Nucker 67]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Oksy, but how do we move guys like OEL, Myers, Pearson without adding picks and prospects for another team to take them? Dickinson cost us a second and taking back Stillman.  I think we are stuck with some older, overpaid, underperforming guys.

Probably having to add Rathbone or Hoglander? Teams might really want Podkolzin too, but I hope they don't trade him.

[Alflives]

Just now, NUCKER67 said:

Probably having to add Rathbone or Hoglander? Teams might really want Podkolzin too, but I hope they don't trade him.

It would clear a lot of cap t9 move out those guys, but giving up on our young ELC guys (and likely some pucks added) means a long rebuild.  It might be what we need to do, but would our owner be behind that?  

[Gurn]

14 minutes ago, Alflives said:

12 games and he’s 29.  Miller is a first line guy.  He’s one of the top point producing players in the league over these last three seasons.  And he’s big.  And he plays heavy.  

Miller isn’t the problem here.  

Miller is A problem here- he is not the only one.

And he gives up on back checking

and he gives away the puck

and when he gives away the puck, he often doesn't back check.

Miller is a problem here.

[Mustard Tiger]

Victims of the fanbase and ownership. Too many freaking out for playoffs, And too much incompetence in those leading and running the team.

 

Patience + Building the team logically, Not emotionally is the only way for long term success 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, gurn said:

Miller is A problem here- he is not the only one.

And he gives up on back checking

and he gives away the puck

and when he gives away the puck, he often doesn't back check.

Miller is a problem here.

All players make mistakes.  Most goals come from opponents’ mistakes.  Miller is not a problem.  

[wildcam]

8 hours ago, Drakrami said:

Management was freaking out they couldn't trade Miller so they drooled when Miller accepted 7million AAV. Should have pulled the trigger at last year's TDL, not chase the playoffs in which we had like a 5% chance of making. 

 

No previous regime ties down a new one. They are the current regime and have the power to change things and turn a new page. All these tied down by previous regimes are just pathetic excuses. 

They still be trying to trade Miller before his contract starts..

Only a few players I would not trade, Hughes, Petey, Podkolzin, Demko....

 

[VegasCanuck]

Here's my take on the current situation.

 

Hamonic trade. We started to get much looser defensively last year after this trade. I get that we were trying to free up some cap space, but Hamonic is a guy that brings a significant physical element to the right side, and we didn't do anything to replace that in that trade, or since the trade. He was a + guy for the Canucks last year, and he's +5 on Ottawa last year and so far this year. IMO, we moved the wrong guy here unless we were bringing in someone younger and physical. This guy was fearless blocking shots, which you rarely see anyone doing right now.

 

Mikheyev was a good signing, increases speed, but he should have been signed with full intention and possibly another trade in place to move out someone else to make additional cap space.

 

Lazar was a good signing, we were better defensively when he was in the lineup and we're missing him, but the whole team has to be responsible for defensive play.

 

Boeser is a good contract, we have to remember how much of Training Camp he was missing and that he came back too early. Hopefully his hand has fully recovered now. NOTE, I'm not saying that it might not be a good idea to trade him. I've said a number of times, I think that he's an expendable asset who could be used to address our RD deficiency.

 

Miller!!!! Everyone keeps talking about how we should have traded Miller at the deadline, even though we have ZERO proof that there was a valid offer on the table that was worth accepting. Everything out there is pure speculation by people who are publishing rumor as if it were fact. Even though he's struggling right now, he's still basically a point per game guy so far this season and 8 million per, is easily the going rate for point per game guys in the NHL. He doesn't have an NTC until next year, we can still move him for anyone looking for offense.

Tyler Motte, not bringing this guy back after the trade when he was available on the market for SO long this summer, was a mistake. In his time here, we have always been a better team, especially defensively, when he's in the lineup and he's better offensively than a lot of people ever gave him credit for. So far this season with Ottawa, he is 2 goals, 5 assists in 12 games and +5 on another team that is REALLY struggling. Was also fearless blocking shots.

 

Kuzmenko and Aman have both been awesome signings so far although I think Kuzmenko will struggle more as the schedule progresses.

 

There are NO fast fixes here, I think we put too much emphasis on adding up front and not enough on reshaping defense during the off season. I don't think Boudreau is the issue, I think the current state is 100% on management failing to address the overall team defensive weakness. All emphasis since December was on building out a management team and not really on turning this into Rutherford and Allvin's team on the ice. This is still very much Jim Benning's team, there has been no real shake up that would have been expected to restructure the composition. We have some really good players here, but we definitely do not have the right mix of players and I really feel like we moved out the wrong guys so far.

 

Things I would do:

Send Rathbone to Abbotsford for a month to get more playing time and regain confidence

Play Burroughs as we need more of his style of play on the right side

Explore trade market for Miller and Garland, but only move them if the return is acceptable. We need a defensively solid, young, mobile RD 

 

I've defended Pearson, and I still standby my previous assessment of him as a player, but he has been pretty bad so far this year. I know he's injured at least day to day, he's not tradeable the way he's playing right now. I would give him a game or two when he gets back and if he's not showing dramatic improvement, I would waive him and send him to Abbotsford for now and call up Lockwood. If nothing else, that's going to fire a real warning shot across the front of the other players.

 

 

 

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

7 hours ago, cuporbust said:

 

 

Really ? They didn't? ^^^^  11 months ago.

 

They've been this bad for the better part of a decade in the same fashion, so how would this be a surprise to management?

 

This shouldn't be shocking . If it is , they are just as clueless as trader Jim. 

 

Gee, it's almost like I've herd this all before , "Like,  umm , so, like over and over", as a wise man I once knew might say. 

 

" I still believe in this group of players , yet I brought in 11 new ones ".

 

Makes sense. It's almost like they ran things " day to day", not long term. Can't remember where I herd that before , but pretty sure a wise man I once knew was quoted saying that too. 

 

More accurate would be :

 

"Sooooo,  like, I sort of think a few of these players are,  like,  really good and stuff,  maybe, but ....ummmm, I like think we may have totally f'd up there mental development ."

 

"So, i'm like totally not sure of anything right now other than I wish this bottle of water was pure moonshine. I still believe in this group and stuff though". 

 

This start isn't shocking.  What would be shocking would be if they managed to not be 27th in the league for once. 

 

When you f up a teams cohesive development  and chemistry,  it's almost impossible to fix it, especially with young players.  Aside Pettersson and Hughes,  it's likely a total teardown from what we've seen so far. 

 

Shout out to the Buffalo Sabres. We are right there with you guys. You can thank the off season after the bubble run for this. The complete incompetence to even respectfully contact the UFA'S that held this team together mentally was by far and away the turning point. 

 

" listen up young guys , if you dedicate yourself to this team for most of your hockey career,  we will likely not even bother to call you when we decide to move on".

 

I wonder why nobody cares on this team for f sakes. You can't trade or sign your way out of that. 

 

I agree.

 

They said all the things preseason like they expect to compete for a playoff spot.

 

My initial reaction was "really? with that defence?"

 

Like how delusional do you have to be to think we can compete with such a dysfunctional personnel of defence? 

[JayDangles]

7 minutes ago, Alflives said:

All players make mistakes.  Most goals come from opponents’ mistakes.  Miller is not a problem.  

I don't know how you can say he is not a problem. He absolutely is a problem. Unless all you look at is points compared to contract.... but there's way more on-ice elements that point to Miller being a major issue. All the little negative things us fans got glimpses of from Miller last year have metastasized into major issues. His attitude, accountability, effort, leadership are all significantly worse this year. Yes that doesn't show up in the points compared to contract lens but his lack of backcheck, lazy plays and braindead drop passes have all individually contributed to goals being scored and games being lost. Not showing good leadership qualities to model after

[VegasCanuck]

40 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Oksy, but how do we move guys like OEL, Myers, Pearson without adding picks and prospects for another team to take them? Dickinson cost us a second and taking back Stillman.  I think we are stuck with some older, overpaid, underperforming guys.

OEL could be bought out this coming offseason, would only cost us a little under 150k...ish for next season and then subsequent seasons, we will have more cap space due to the cap starting to move again.

 

Myers is better than people give him credit for, but I agree that we probably don't have room for his contract next season. He should be easily moveable given that he's only due to be paid 1 million next season after his 5 million signing bonus is paid. That should be attractive to Arizona for next season, to eat up 6 million in cap space for just 1 million actual spend.

 

Pearson has been a really good player for us, but I agree that he's really underperforming this season. I would make an example of him and send him to Abbotsford and recall Lockwood. That might help send a message to the rest of the players.

 

[VegasCanuck]

50 minutes ago, Alflives said:

12 games and he’s 29.  Miller is a first line guy.  He’s one of the top point producing players in the league over these last three seasons.  And he’s big.  And he plays heavy.  

Miller isn’t the problem here.  

He's not the main problem here, but he REALLY needs to be more aware in his own zone. I love his game in the offensive zone, but I don't think he's our best option for penalty killing.

[MaxVerstappen33]

9 hours ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

 Victims of cap issues?

They inherited a team with ONE bad contract. And we all know what contract that is. Every team has at least one bad contract

 

You might not like Pearson or Poolman or even Myers. But they are not long term bloated contracts. They simply do not fit that definition. The cap situation they inherited was middle of the pack. 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Oksy, but how do we move guys like OEL, Myers, Pearson without adding picks and prospects for another team to take them? Dickinson cost us a second and taking back Stillman.  I think we are stuck with some older, overpaid, underperforming guys.

Agreed.  OEL, Myers and Pearson all require a sweetener to move them now.  Pearson and Myers could be moved at next year's deadline for a pick with salary retention.  The only way we get out of OEL's contract is to buy him out, with the slim chance somebody might want to take him for 4 more years if we retain 50% of his salary.

[DrJockitch]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

All players make mistakes.  Most goals come from opponents’ mistakes.  Miller is not a problem.  

His defensive stats have been consistently bad. He just has outscored the issues. 
He has been one of the biggest problems this year. 
‘For a heart and soul guy he has been lazy on the back check, bails on problems he creates and frankly I don’t think came into camp in the shape he should have. 
OEL and Myers may be bigger long term problems but Miller has been a big problem this year. 

[DrJockitch]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Agreed.  OEL, Myers and Pearson all require a sweetener to move them now.  Pearson and Myers could be moved at next year's deadline for a pick with salary retention.  The only way we get out of OEL's contract is to buy him out, with the slim chance somebody might want to take him for 4 more years if we retain 50% of his salary.

As soon as we traded for him I was looking at what buyout would look like and wasn’t too bad after a few years if I remember. 
‘Wonder if we retained around 2M if he would be tradeable. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

3 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

As soon as we traded for him I was looking at what buyout would look like and wasn’t too bad after a few years if I remember. 
‘Wonder if we retained around 2M if he would be tradeable. 

Last year?  A good chance given how well OEL played.  Unfortunately his play this season would be cause for concern as to whether OEL has hit that wall that all athletes hit (like how quickly a guy like Hansen's play fell off the cliff).  Unless he reverts to last year's form, I don't see any team wanting him because of that.

Edited November 10, 2022 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Elias Pettersson]

12 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

As soon as we traded for him I was looking at what buyout would look like and wasn’t too bad after a few years if I remember. 
‘Wonder if we retained around 2M if he would be tradeable. 

He might be tradeable if we retain $3.6 million.  The other problem is that he has a NMC, so he will probably veto any trade regardless.  Boston was the only other team he was willing to go to but they traded for Lindholm so they don't need him any longer.  

 

A buyout after this year isn't too bad, it's just that it would be for 8 years.  But if we are rebuilding for the next 3-4 years then the last 4 years of the buyout, which are at $2.1 million, wouldn't be too bad.  Either that or we keep him on the roster for 4 more years at $7.26 million.  Neither scenario is appealing at all...