Exactly where are we as a franchise? (Discussion)

[J.I.A.H.N]

So, I have been asking myself, exactly what do we need to be a competitive team? Are we the team that played lights out after Christmas last year, or are we the team, that plays 2 different games, every night, this year? 

 

Well one thing for sure, we have to replace Dmen, and fix the team defense. But what I am more curious about, and what I have been asking myself repeatedly, is where are we in our rebuild?

 

Are we a team that..............

 

A ) Is it a team that is one or two players away from being a legit contender?

B ) A team full of veterans and young guns just around the corner from breaking out?

C ) Or are we a team that will age out before we actually become competitive ?

 

Another question that raises it ugly head is..............

 

Can we fix our problems before our core starts to hit their UFA years? It is the biggest question I have, really! We are facing that with Bo, now, and you can not blame him if he wonders, if he will ever be on a consistently winning team, and whether it is worth sticking around. Well, like many posters on CDC who ask, if Pettersson will ask that very same question in 2 years. I point out Pettersson, because he will be 26, turning 27 when his contract runs out in 2 years. (27 on Nov. of the 2024-2025 season). Demko is even older and will be 29 when he ends his current contract. 

 

With only Lekkerimaki, as our only legit prospect, it is hard to see where our young core will come from. Yes, our first this year will add to that, but I do not see where either Lekkerimaki or this years first, is going to make that much of a difference short term. (Short of landing Bedard in this years draft). Will either actually help this current rendition of the Canucks?

 

The other question that keeps coming out, is will Myers leaving this or next year, actually make a positive difference? IMO, we are so short of RHD, and so hard against the cap, especially with Bo, Kuzmenko, and a 2 years later Pettersson's contracts up, that any savings from Myers, will be going into these guys. If we keep them.

 

It is surely a mess! 

 

So, who of our current core goes to fix the problems we have? Well, currently Horvat looks to be on thin ice, negotiation wise (His play is stellar). So ok, we move Bo, for what and from whom? Most teams can not take Bo's contract on without moving Cap back to us, so who is willing to give us a RHD that has similar value? And will that be enough? And who fills in for Bo, and who takes his Faceoff and replaces his 30 goals a year?

 

Does taking picks and prospects fill the need to fix our problems? Nope! Not alone! Even if we get a Pullock type of return on him, which fills the need for a number one RHD and Cap swap, there is still the hole created by moving Bo, and still no prospect depth...........It is not an easy fix, as there are multiple problems, with constraints everywhere.

 

Moving everyone but Pettersson, Hughes and Demko as some suggests......does that really fix the problem? Or boot it down the road, in terms of a rebuild. Again, go back to the start of this post and answer the question.......how does Pettersson, Hughes and Demko respond to a move like that?

 

So, ok, we move Horvat for a needed Dman, then move Boeser/Garland/Kuzmenko/Podkolzin etc and get a 3rd line center (maybe!)  Who do we get for anyone of them? Is that the fix? Does a another rebuilding team give us their good 3rd line center for any of them........probably not! Maybe Podkolzin, maybe Kuzmenko? Meh, maybe ? So, what is the fix? What is the cost? What is the cap cost?

 

I invite your thoughts on this...........what kind of team are we? and can it be fixed without tearing it down?

[Blue Jay 22]

As of right now, we are in the worst possible spot to be….middling. Not good enough to be a contender and not bad enough to be a rebuilder.

 

To answer your question, I don’t think we are A, B, or C. We ate definitely not 1-2 pieces away because we need at least 3 pieces on the blue line alone, let alone the rest of the roster. We are definitely not B because we have had the same core for a bit now. While Horvat has definitely elevated his game and surprised me, others have stagnated or regressed (cough, Boeser). And I don’t think we are C because the pieces I expect the Canucks could compete with 1 day (Petey, Hughes, Demko?) are still young enough to build around. I never considered OEL, Myers, Miller, Garland, or secondary/older players part of the future core/plan because I, along with others, knew just looking at this roster construction that this team was going nowhere to begin with. Unfortunate that they extended Miller cuz they are stuck with him now if they don’t move him before that extension kicks in.

 

Also very concerning that Lekkerimaki is considered our top prospect….has anyone peaked his stats lately? It’s uhh…not good. We need to blow this sh*t up and rebuild properly cuz I don’t see a short term solution emerging with the current situation, and the ceiling for them, even if they somehow play better, is very low compared to other contenders.

 

Benning ruined this team so bad.

[Devron]

I don’t think anyone really knows the answer tbh 

[Nuxfanabroad]

Margaritaville? :^)

[Coconuts]

I wouldn't say we're A or B, that's for sure. We're a team who's got some very talented youth, little in the system in the way of quality prospects, who's repeatedly traded away picks (particularly 2nd rounders) over the past decade, and that is capped out but still mediocre at best. 

 

We're a team with a bunch of 5-8D who needs two top 4RD sooner than later but has no succession plan in place. We've got OEL locked in forever, and even if he would waive it's not worth the cost. We're a team that should probably undergo a dismantling process but who just signed a 29 year old Miller to 8x7. We're a team that's been a bottom feeder for so long that it's likely our own captain likely opts for a fresh start elsewhere imo. 

 

I don't see any quick fixes, and I think everyone should be on the table. There's no guarantee any rebuild would be quick, or that players like Pettersson would want to stick around through one. There's likely no quick way to address our defense. I don't think simply bringing in another coach is going to do the trick. 

 

We can't afford to move out picks and prospects and we don't exactly have a bunch of blue chip guys anyway. Most of our top end younger talent is already on the roster. 

 

We need to just embrace being bad, rip off the band-aid and tear this thing down. Benning era management put us in a bad spot and management painting themselves into a corner with Dickinson by going and spending all our cap on forwards and extending Miller certainly hasn't helped. This team needs a rebuild, and a real one at that. 

 

 

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Middling/Mediocre/ Inconsistent. At a crossroads of what to do about it. 
 

I say tear down because it is the more concrete course of action. Tearing down is more of a matter of when it will work rather than if while the other options present more of a matter of if it will work rather than when. 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Junkyard Dog

[Fanuck]

A.  If we could have made a few trades to change the composition of this team, and clear the needed cap-space to enable future trades/signings - JR and co. would surely have done that already.  The fact that they came into this season with essentially the EXACT same team that wasn't good enough last year tells me there's no market out there in today's cap-strapped NHL for any meaningful trades, and there may not be for some time (maybe not until this supposed cap increase that Bettman was talking about comes into play). 

 

It's fun proposing and talking about trades - I get that; but JR was on record that their management team tried diligently this off-season to address team needs (defence) and couldn't get anything done.  There's no reason to expect the market has changed whatsoever at this point.

 

B.  This team won't have any chance of 'breaking' out unless Demko and Clark figure out what's happening with him? 

 

C.  Presently this seems like the most likely scenario - especially since BoHo looks to be playing himself right out of our price range and he could easily not be a part of this core after the TDL. 

[Heretic]

Exactly where are we as a franchise?  

 

 

Cursed.  

 

 

 

 

[-SN-]

Well below average, with potential to be average. We're competing in earnest but getting results similar to teams that are trying to tank. Immediate results don't really bother me, but these things do:

 

• We're capped out. 
• We're very thin on prospects and draft picks. 
• We have several anchor contracts that are almost impossible to move.
• Extremely mixed messaging from management (saying some things, doing the opposite). 
• Clear rift between coaching and management. 
• Team culture issues. 

 

If you blow up the team, you get limited returns because there's almost nothing to build on and key pieces will age out. 

If you try to 're-tool' you get limited returns because you're already capped out, reliant on free agency, and movement is restricted. 

 

I don't see how the future can be anything but middling. 

[Honourable Hughes]

We need to let this season die without trying to save it. Move assets where we can before the deadline and continue to move more in the off-season.

 

Tired of trading the future away and swapping coaches to be a middle of the road team.

[Jam126]

We are in Vancouver, BC, Canada.

 

800 Griffiths Way

 

V6B 6G1

[Ghostsof1915]

1 hour ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Margaritaville? :^)

Explains why we're wasted away again....

[chon derry]

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, -SN- said:

Well below average, with potential to be average. We're competing in earnest but getting results similar to teams that are trying to tank. Immediate results don't really bother me, but these things do:

 

• We're capped out. 
• We're very thin on prospects and draft picks. 
• We have several anchor contracts that are almost impossible to move.
• Extremely mixed messaging from management (saying some things, doing the opposite). 
• Clear rift between coaching and management. 
• Team culture issues. 

 

If you blow up the team, you get limited returns because there's almost nothing to build on and key pieces will age out. 

If you try to 're-tool' you get limited returns because you're already capped out, reliant on free agency, and movement is restricted. 

 

I don't see how the future can be anything but middling. 

This is why I lean more towards everyone being on the table, I'm not sure we should have any untouchables at this point. Ideally we'd keep Pettersson but he'll be a pending RFA who's a qualifying offer away from UFA sooner than later. 

 

A player can become a UFA if their current contract ends after either 7 Accrued Seasons or they are 27 or older as of June 30, this is Pettersson's fifth season and he's got one more season remaining on his current deal. At the end of this deal all he'd have to do is accept his one year qualifying offer and he could walk at the end of that season.

 

A rebuild could be a lengthy, painful process but it's not as if we haven't already experienced that most of the past decade already. I'd rather be bad than mediocre. At least there'd be a concrete direction in the form of gradually working to build from the ground up. 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Coconuts

[Gurn]

[kloubek]

This team has great scoring depth. I think regardless of our opinion of the team, management, the record or the players, we can likely all agree on that.

 

Everything past that is up for debate. Is Demko our guy? (I believe he is, but confidence from the fans is quickly waning). How bad is our D, really? (Or are our defensive woes equally due to forwards who aren't playing a 2-way game, or perhaps a coach who isn't playing the team with enough structure).

I think the feeling surrounding this team is because a) We saw something similar last year and b) Nobody really has an answer for what's wrong. There are also other things going on which seem to cast a shadow on the org, such as the indecision with Horvat. Overall, it just "feels" bad.

But really, consider where this team would be if Demko was giving vezina-level performances as he was expected to? What if on top of that we were able to bring in a couple of true solid role defensemen. Maybe one big RHD who can keep up with Hughes and compliment him properly. Maybe a guy capable of scoring so Hughes isn't the only one back there who has to do it? (I'd say OEL was supposed to be that guy, but he's looked just awful so far). 

 

My point being that everyone is claiming the sky is falling - which I can appreciate, but it could be righted by just a couple of things changing. And once that happens, momentum can build and all of a sudden, we're a playoff team again and it doesn't look so bad.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I believe in most of this team - despite the poor results this season. Obviously the Canucks cant stay the current course, but I'm not sure blowing everything up and rebuilding is the answer either.

[Nucker 67]

Canucks are allowing way too many goals, and are having to score 5+ goals to win games. Tied with ANA for most Goals Against.

 

and now the Canucks might trade their top scorer.

 

Playoffs? 

 

[nuckin_futz]

Where are we as a franchise?

 

I just got back from Thailand and was laughed at on the Bangkok SkyTrain for wearing a Canucks t-shirt. That's where we are. We are an embarrassment.

 

Mind you the guy who laughed at me was wearing a Blackhawks hat.

[D-Money]

The team is screwed. They desperately need to rebuild the defence, but with quality defenders in such high demand, they can’t acquire what they need through trades. And we’re capped out too, so we can’t acquire it in free agency either.

 

The only way left is to draft a new D-core, and perhaps trade veterans for D prospects that hopefully pan out (like Tampa did with Sergachev and Cernak). But that is going to take years to play out.

[cripplereh]

Full rebuild with EP,QH,Bo we would get great returns.

 

Test well be lucky to get a good return but would help.  

 

Total tank get a top 3 pick and a couple other 1sts thus year would be better then keeping players and again hoping for the best.