(Rumour) 4 teams interested in J.T. Miller

[86Viking]

19 minutes ago, Gurn said:

I doubt it, but also am not sure.

My issue is the idea of 'having to sign him to a 'NTC' but thinking that is ok as they could still trade him this season.

 

Miller should have been traded prior/at last seasons deadline.

Major, major, mistake by our supposed 'superstar management' team.

 

That said I'm firmly opposed to any NTC for any player. Stupid way to run a team/league.

JT "Should" have been traded, good player just doesn't fit our teams timeline...

 

Millionaires should NOT get NTC's imo either, you may far too much money. I get you have a family and don't want to move them around but nobody is forcing you to play 10-15 years in the NHL either. Players should be smart enough to save up their $ and comfortably could retire after a 1 decent contract after their ELC.

 

I also, would be happier with GM Alvin realizing a mistake with JT and trading him BEFORE he becomes a 8m cap hit with NTC protect for our team, compared to us keeping JT and him sulking or being too competitive of a guy for our team. A team that clearly is NOT close to being a competitive NHL playoff level team.

 

Own the mistake now before it drags you down for years. Same goes for OEL, don't even fathom buying him out...get him to waive and sadly we would have to retain a decent chunk...something our CLUELESS old GM Benning thought getting Arizona to retain less than 1m was a good coupe on top of giving up a top 10 pick and multiple other picks!

 

Can we traded OEL back to Arizona in a 3 way deal to get them to retain more % and the Canucks retain say 1m and Arizona bumps up their retainment to say 2m or whatever total % retention need to get rid of OEL.

 

Then if OEL was moved, I would be okay with Girard coming back from Colorado. Ideally for JT but that is unlikely.

 

Holding out hope an Eastern Conference team is willing to trade for JT at this TDL, less of a return for us but we should get something decent for him still just not the delusional type of return many thought JT would get us last TDL or last Draft...same people might be thinking the same return for Bo this TDL!? 

 

On Bo, if you chose to move him...for the love of god let his agent have contract talks with teams so if a deal could be agreed upon for a contract extension the RETURN coming back to Vancouver would be better...Get the best return you can if you decide to trade your 28yr old Captain!

[aGENT]

On 1/13/2023 at 9:00 AM, Neutral said:

JT Miller, Rathbone to Columbus

 

To Vancouver

 

Kuraly, Peeke/Ceulmanns, 2024 2nd or could we get a 2024 lottery protected 1st??

As a team that has trouble actually retaining talent, they might actually highly value that he's got term. It is also close to his home town/family. Not sure he's a a huge need on their roster (they could use a legit C) or fits their timeline though (they're in a not dissimilar phase to us).

 

Certainly not a horrible idea though.

Edited January 16, 2023 by aGENT

[NHL97OneTimer]

On 1/12/2023 at 6:42 AM, canucklehead44 said:

I think management has done a solid job. When Benning took over it was clearly time to rebuild. The core was past prime and we had minimal good young players. But instead that era traded and downgraded more picks than acquired.

 

the team now is different. Management inherited a solid young core in EP, Hughes, Demko, Boeser, Horvat. With Horvat creeping toward the end of his prime - and EP/Hughes starting theirs competing now actually made sense especially after almost a decade of floundering. 
 

The moves they made have been great, and while re-signing Miller in hindsight hasn’t been great it sure made a lot more sense than trading a top 10 pick and a second rounder for two terrible contracts

The OEL trade was the biggest smear on JB's record......and yet I recall the excitement of Garland and people weren't concerned about that contract.  Hindsight is 20-20.  He missed on a couple of top picks (JV and OJ), but he did very well with EP and QH.  

 

JR and PA will be definitely be graded based on JTM's contract.  It only takes one terrible move to sink a team for a long time.  I like JTM, but that contract sucks.  They've made some decent moves, but to say they've done a solid job is a bit odd at this point when they're having such a horrible season.  The only thing I'll say to spare them a bit is that they've had challenges with the cap space league-wide......but then adding JTM's salary to that was just ridiculous.

[CanucksJay]

4 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

The OEL trade was the biggest smear on JB's record......and yet I recall the excitement of Garland and people weren't concerned about that contract.  Hindsight is 20-20.  He missed on a couple of top picks (JV and OJ), but he did very well with EP and QH.  

 

JR and PA will be definitely be graded based on JTM's contract.  It only takes one terrible move to sink a team for a long time.  I like JTM, but that contract sucks.  They've made some decent moves, but to say they've done a solid job is a bit odd at this point when they're having such a horrible season.  The only thing I'll say to spare them a bit is that they've had challenges with the cap space league-wide......but then adding JTM's salary to that was just ridiculous.

Ive been a critic of JT even last year when he put up 99...

However, his play has picked up as of late and he's playing like an 8m player

If he can keep up this play, it'll take losing Horvat more palatable. 

Lately I'm noticing other positive parts of his game. 

The guy wants to win. He is physical and one of the few forwards that can hold his own from a strength perspective. 

He's a good combination of skill and strength. Like a Pearson with silky mitts. 

He'll also do whatever it takes like block shots etc

Maybe he was trying to do too much to justify his contract. 

If he eliminates the blind cross ice passes and works harder on his back check, i would actually be ok keeping him

Itll be interesting to see who'll be the better player for the next 5 years. Horvat or Miller. 

 

[Wanless]

5 hours ago, aGENT said:

As a team that has trouble actually retaining talent, they might actually highly value that he's got term. It is also close to his home town/family. Not sure he's a a huge need on their roster (they could use a legit C) or fits their timeline though (they're in a not dissimilar phase to us).

 

Certainly not a horrible idea though.

I also think it would be a good landing spot for miller

 

they have johnny and need to build a team to win now and be competitive for 5-6 years

 

blockbuster trade

 

To columbus Miller and Boeser 

To van 2024 first 2023 second Vorachek and Nyquist

 

this trade could allow us to keep both Horvat and kuz by moving other smaller pieces

 

 

[N4ZZY]

9 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

The only thing I'll say to spare them a bit is that they've had challenges with the cap space league-wide......but then adding JTM's salary to that was just ridiculous.

I mean, to be fair, they already knew they were in cap hell. So why go and sign JTM to this monster deal and create even less cap room than they had before signing him? 

 

That doesn't make any sort of sense, and I'm no capologist or NHL executive. 

 

[RinkonRenfrew]

17 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I mean, to be fair, they already knew they were in cap hell. So why go and sign JTM to this monster deal and create even less cap room than they had before signing him? 

 

That doesn't make any sort of sense, and I'm no capologist or NHL executive. 

 

If you don’t trade JTM, you can’t lose the JTM trade. 

[N4ZZY]

1 minute ago, RinkonRenfrew said:

If you don’t trade JTM, you can’t lose the JTM trade. 

If management keeps JTM, we've lost. that contract is going to bury this franchise for the next decade. 

 

[N4ZZY]

5 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

Itll be interesting to see who'll be the better player for the next 5 years. Horvat or Miller. 

Yeah, that's an interesting comment. 

 

I lean towards Bo, only because he was drafted by the team I love and cheer for. But I suspect that Bo's scoring rate this season isn't going to translate over the course of the next 5-7 years. He's never been this kind of player. My gut tells me Miller will be the better player offensively. JT's already better than Bo offensively before he signed his massive deal. I could be wrong of course, but that's just my guess. 

 

[RinkonRenfrew]

Just now, N4ZZY said:

If management keeps JTM, we've lost. that contract is going to bury this franchise for the next decade. 

 

That’s next decade’s problem. It certainly won’t be JR’s or Allvins.
 

 I wish Franco left Smyl in charge. Even if he had signed miller and done nothing more, you know the guys would have been battling and blocking hard from the start. And I dont doubt he’d change direction at the expense of himself looking bad if we were where we are now. 

[Elias Pettersson]

3 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

If management keeps JTM, we've lost. that contract is going to bury this franchise for the next decade. 

 

$8 million for a PPG player is certainly not going to bury this franchise.  People are focusing only on the last few months.  However, Miller has been with us for almost 4 years and during that time he has been a PPG player every year.  Even this year he is now trending to a PPG even with his terrible start to the year.  You can have Petey on the top line and Miller on the 2nd line for years to come.  We just need to surround Miller with some good talent on that 2nd line.  Maybe the hockey Gods will be with us and we give Miller Connor Bedard to play with.  I'd even take Adam Fantilli or Leo Carlsson...

[CanucksJay]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

$8 million for a PPG player is certainly not going to bury this franchise.  People are focusing only on the last few months.  However, Miller has been with us for almost 4 years and during that time he has been a PPG player every year.  Even this year he is now trending to a PPG even with his terrible start to the year.  You can have Petey on the top line and Miller on the 2nd line for years to come.  We just need to surround Miller with some good talent on that 2nd line.  Maybe the hockey Gods will be with us and we give Miller Connor Bedard to play with.  I'd even take Adam Fantilli or Leo Carlsson...

Yeah I'm starting to come around on Miller 

I was a dead set no last year when rumors were floating around 9.5m+. When he signed for 8m I was ok with that 

The canucks disappointing year had led me to join the pitchfork mob but I've put down the pitchfork. 

At 8m, a pt/gm power forward who is one of the few on the team that can play physical is ok. Especially knowing cap will rise throughout his term. The guy clearly cares about what's going on in the ice and I've seen him lay out and try blocking shots putting his body on the line. That's actually converted me. We need more guys with that win at all costs mentality. 

My only qualm is that he needs to play smarter. Avoid the low percentage cross ice passes and back check hard with short shifts. 

 

If he can produce at a pt/game pace for the next 5 years, it's a fine contract. 

 

 

 

[NorthWestNuck]

4 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Yeah, that's an interesting comment. 

 

I lean towards Bo, only because he was drafted by the team I love and cheer for. But I suspect that Bo's scoring rate this season isn't going to translate over the course of the next 5-7 years. He's never been this kind of player. My gut tells me Miller will be the better player offensively. JT's already better than Bo offensively before he signed his massive deal. I could be wrong of course, but that's just my guess. 

 

The interesting thing is I wonder how much of Horvat going to Adam Oates had on his current play? Supposedly Oates helped Horvat work on his shot amount other things, so this bump could be somewhat sustainable for a while? (Think 35-40 consistently?). I don’t know.

[Alflives]

30 minutes ago, NorthWestNuck said:

The interesting thing is I wonder how much of Horvat going to Adam Oates had on his current play? Supposedly Oates helped Horvat work on his shot amount other things, so this bump could be somewhat sustainable for a while? (Think 35-40 consistently?). I don’t know.

There will be a Bo extension with us before the TDL.  

[DownUndaCanuck]

If Miller could play decent defence and center, he's worth keeping. However he does neither. Lately he's scoring a bit more but he's still well under a PPG. If he was scoring at an 80-90 point pace I'd be happy too but he's closer to a 70 point pace one way poor defensive winger and despite his recent scoring, that's not good enough for 8M and our most expensive player.

 

I'm sure there's somewhat of a market out there for him, even if it means we take some short term cap back, but I have a feeling management won't because it would admit a mistake on their behalf.

[CanucksJay]

50 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

If Miller could play decent defence and center, he's worth keeping. However he does neither. Lately he's scoring a bit more but he's still well under a PPG. If he was scoring at an 80-90 point pace I'd be happy too but he's closer to a 70 point pace one way poor defensive winger and despite his recent scoring, that's not good enough for 8M and our most expensive player.

 

I'm sure there's somewhat of a market out there for him, even if it means we take some short term cap back, but I have a feeling management won't because it would admit a mistake on their behalf.

Looking at his game log, there's an interesting trend. 

He started slow and picked it up in Nov where he scored 17 pts in 14 games  which is a 99 PT pace 

He was however getting a lot of heat for his defensive play. 

Dec then was a brutal month where he only put up 6 points in 13 games. 

His +- also took a dive but that's to be expected when he's putting up that few points. 

He was then talking about the lack of points due to him working on the defensive side of his game. 

 

Now in January, he's 8 pts in 7 games (94 PT pace) and an even +- while our team has played its toughest schedule. 

Maybe he is turning the corner? 

 

If he can be a solid 2 way player while putting up 80-90 pts, I'm a happy camper

 

I'm officially off the crucify Miller crowd. 

Im ok whether he stays or goes as long as the decision is in line with the overall team strategy and we don't see conflicting/contradictory actions by management. 

 

Im off the Boeser hate train as well. 

He is getting overpaid but he's still a worthy NHLer. 

He should be getting Garland money but that's more on management. 

I hope we trade him but that's only for cap purposes. 

If he stays, I would hope he'd do the team a solid and sign a long term 5m deal... 

 

[stawns]

16 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

The OEL trade was the biggest smear on JB's record......and yet I recall the excitement of Garland and people weren't concerned about that contract.  Hindsight is 20-20.  He missed on a couple of top picks (JV and OJ), but he did very well with EP and QH.  

 

JR and PA will be definitely be graded based on JTM's contract.  It only takes one terrible move to sink a team for a long time.  I like JTM, but that contract sucks.  They've made some decent moves, but to say they've done a solid job is a bit odd at this point when they're having such a horrible season.  The only thing I'll say to spare them a bit is that they've had challenges with the cap space league-wide......but then adding JTM's salary to that was just ridiculous.

I'm not concerned about that contract at all.  He's a top 2-3 dman and that's how much they cost.  If it's not OEL, they're paying someone else tye same amount, with longer term most likely 

[stawns]

10 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Looking at his game log, there's an interesting trend. 

He started slow and picked it up in Nov where he scored 17 pts in 14 games  which is a 99 PT pace 

He was however getting a lot of heat for his defensive play. 

Dec then was a brutal month where he only put up 6 points in 13 games. 

His +- also took a dive but that's to be expected when he's putting up that few points. 

He was then talking about the lack of points due to him working on the defensive side of his game. 

 

Now in January, he's 8 pts in 7 games (94 PT pace) and an even +- while our team has played its toughest schedule. 

Maybe he is turning the corner? 

 

If he can be a solid 2 way player while putting up 80-90 pts, I'm a happy camper

 

I'm officially off the crucify Miller crowd. 

Im ok whether he stays or goes as long as the decision is in line with the overall team strategy and we don't see conflicting/contradictory actions by management. 

 

Im off the Boeser hate train as well. 

He is getting overpaid but he's still a worthy NHLer. 

He should be getting Garland money but that's more on management. 

I hope we trade him but that's only for cap purposes. 

If he stays, I would hope he'd do the team a solid and sign a long term 5m deal... 

 

No, he's still horrible in his own rnd

[Harold Drunken]

12 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

Ive been a critic of JT even last year when he put up 99...

However, his play has picked up as of late and he's playing like an 8m player

If he can keep up this play, it'll take losing Horvat more palatable. 

Lately I'm noticing other positive parts of his game. 

The guy wants to win. He is physical and one of the few forwards that can hold his own from a strength perspective. 

He's a good combination of skill and strength. Like a Pearson with silky mitts. 

He'll also do whatever it takes like block shots etc

Maybe he was trying to do too much to justify his contract. 

If he eliminates the blind cross ice passes and works harder on his back check, i would actually be ok keeping him

Itll be interesting to see who'll be the better player for the next 5 years. Horvat or Miller. 

 

That's the thing about Miller, nobody has a problem with his contract if he's putting up 90-100 points....problem is using a career best year to project a players production almost never works out favorably.  Especially at that term, to think JT will be putting up those numbers into his mid to late 30's is statistically very improbable and it will likely fall off...it already has. Giving out massive contracts after a career best year is slippery slope based on hope. If JT's production slips to 60-70 points a year the contract looks even worse....I didn't have a problem with the number, I had a problem with the term. This will be the next anchor contract for us similar to OEL if his production declines over the next few years....chances are it will. I can't see how moving guys like Bo, Boeser and possibly Kuzy will help to do nothing but stagnate that. I'm pro moving those guys if the return is worth it...... but then you might as well move Miller too.

 

One argument might be well keep Miller for the leadership....my argument to that is you could sign a veteran player or players who are leaders for less $8m per if all you want is a mentor. If you move Bo, Kuzy, Boeser and possibly other players, then move Miller and call it what you will. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Harold Drunken

[Gurn]

Miller's new deal hasn't even started, and he is already producing less than his peak.

Does not bode well.

 

Imo- just getting relieved of his cap hit- is enough return for me.

I'd like more, but am content with just having that deal gone.

Bet they actually would have got more than just 'rid' of a player if they had traded him last season.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Gurn