[Signing] Islanders re-sign Bo Horvat

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, Trebreh said:

I just took a quick look at the Islanders forward group… Bo will be their best player, 8 points clear of second best Brock Nelson . No offensive to Horvat, but if he’s your go-to guy for offence, that’s not a good investment.

 

 

 

 

Well also how many of his goals are powerplay goals?

 

They better hope their powerplay clicks.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by DeNiro

[Curmudgeon]

50 minutes ago, Neutral said:

Congrats on the 64m payday to the contrat year play of Horvat, you are now the enemy though as you no longer play for the Canucks, best of luck enjoy your yearly snow storms haha!

Actually, 8 x 8.5 is $68 million total. Miller is at $56 million, so the Canucks, by betting on Miller instead of Bo, saved $12 million. I have nothing but respect and appreciation for what Bo provided the Canucks, but really, the team did nothing with him as captain. The kicker for me was in a recent game against Chicago when Max Domi cross checked Dakota Joshua after he scored and Bo stood right there and did nothing. Now I know that Bo and Domi have a long history together and Domi was best man at Bo's wedding, but that dirty hit demanded a response and our captain turned the other cheek. Bo is really good at APPEARING to be a captain by high-fiving his teammates as they leave the ice after every game, but I always had the feeling that being captain for him was like a role he was playing in a play. For me, a captain is one of two possibilities; the obvious best player on the team, or the guy who is in everybody's face and challenges even his own team to play better. Bo, in my opinion, did neither. That leaves either Petey or Miller as choices for captain. I'd go with Petey.

[CanucksJay]

6 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

The Canucks weren't exactly trending up with either of them. 

I believe captain embodies the culture and spirit of the team

Looking forward to a fresh start

[Mando27]

Probably controversial opinion but I think Miller's contract is going to age better.

[RWJC]

4 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Would be nice if more fans in this city got behind JT a little more ..   he really is a driving force,.  Almost a “throwback” that way,  and exactly what this team needs.

His consistency almost proves that in 3 or 4 years, JT is an asset to keep as a driver on our playoff runs,  or,  move him for perhaps something even better than what Horvat returned.

 

I honestly think , keeping JT is a win for the players/ team..  management,  and JT .

 

 

In terms of point production, JTM is the better, more dynamic player, regardless of what Bo’s shown this season.

 

in terms of over duration of their contracts, also believe JTM could perform at a stronger clip well into it.

For NYI, Bo will provide some stability but in maybe 3 years time may revert back to only being a 40-50pt guy and a responsible 3rd line C, but close to a buyout candidate soon after.

 

Different players who play different roles and style of games though so for me only comparable really is salary vs role. 
JTM should still be a 50-70pt guy at that time and our new leadership will have already been built up around him (partly why Bo was not extended here to begin with).

 

Bo will replace the likes of Josh Bailey as the veteran presence playing a consistent, but limited role, imho. 

[Devron]

9 minutes ago, riprypien said:

You're*

Than*

Thanks man, really appreciate the grammar lesson 

[DeNiro]

Just now, Jester13 said:

Bo is going to regret this decision. 

 

Thankfully, we are not.

Financially no.

 

But if the Isles start to slip down the standings and the team can’t move his contract it might get pretty miserable as a player there.

[Bounce000]

Just now, Devron said:

Thanks man, really appreciate the grammar lesson 

You have to end a sentence with a period.

[nuckin_futz]

Paying a guy 8 x $8.5 based off his career year is incredibly foolish.

 

This contract will eventually become an albatross.

 

Congrats to management for getting 3 useful assets for Bo.

 

I like the trade even more now.

[-DLC-]

12 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Pretty sure some guys in the locker room  are frustrated with his lack of back checking or defensive effort on the ice. 
 

 

Yeah well until those guys start putting up the points he does, they can deal with it.

 

Like the guys on d whose job it is to defend?

 

And I think this is a myth anyhow...I go to lots of games and see no sign of this. Schenn maybe showed some but, overall, this team was likely quite happy they had JT putting up points last year when they were hard to come by.

 

No one on this team (except Petey) has a right to point fingers at anyone else. The entire team should be frustrated with their own performances and look inward before looking for excuses. JT is doing his part...his job is to put points up.  I mean, seriously...our d is awful so a forward's defensive flaws are secondary to that.

[Conscience]

Kind of was hoping Bo would sign with a better team for a chance to win but I guess some extra money was more important to him. 

[ilduce39]

1 minute ago, DeNiro said:

This is the kind of team building that Benning was responsible for.

 

Just acquiring the top player that happens to be available and giving them what they want.

 

Lou has ways liked Bo sure, but you can’t tell me this is part of a long term plan to build a contender.

 

His impatience is showing. Makes me wonder if we should look to do another deal with the Isles. Schenn to NY for Samuel Bolduc?

I kind of see the logic.  He’s traded away his last 4 1sts.  
 

At a certain point you’re going eventually to start a rebuild but it’s going to be a long haul no one on the roster will be around to see it through.

Delaying it a year is a drop in the bucket long term. Let their group with an elite goaltender try and go on a miracle run, unlikely as it is.
 

If they start selling at least Bo is a steady guy to have in the room during a rebuild. Or maybe his face off chops get you a return if you retain salary.
 

I dunno.  In short, they were already all in and screwed in the mid/long term. 

[Jack Fig]

Just now, SilentSam said:

That’s the problem with the culture here Jack ,

 

”our boy”..     we have literally adopted characters and created identities for them.

 

”favorites”.  A lot of times has nothing to do with working performance.

 

a player like Garland or Motte gives everything , every night ..   but they’re more expendable than someone not performing or playing well.

 

im not trying to point you out with this ,.  But trying to explain the landscape mentality of some of our fan base.

 

Its our culture as fans,  as well as our players in the dressing room ,  that is changing..  and I appreciate that.

I meant that in general ... you would get that outlook anywhere. 

In Seattle, Ken Griffey Jr. was the Kid, the face, the smile, the leader, the promotion, the big talent, the brand new stadium, the everything. Loved like an icon. In Cincinnati, it became "you better hit 50HR and 120RBI or else!" 

He wasn't their boy. And he should never have left Seattle. And he knows that. 

 

[RWJC]

5 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

Many here have become so fixated on what he does wrong, they overlook what he does right. He also makes it easy for them to do so at times...but it's snowballed. People are just programmed to slam JT at this point at every opportunity.

 

The one thing about JT, for me, is he IS surly and grouchy and, on ice, you need some of that. He was the first one to jump in after Tanner fought...he was fired up and ready to go. He plays a strong game out there and, yes, he sometimes floats off the ice but it's not a sustained deal. He's often worked hard and is sometimes gassed as he leaves the ice. Sure, other times, it's a matter of giving up on a play that he's blown and is a bit "pouty"...but he usually comes back the next shift with a vengeance. 

 

We need more guys who are "all in" and he really is. Even IF those momentarily lapses that are shown (over and over) don't support that...they're the exception, not the rule. He's high risk, high reward and has to work on the "risk" part and make better decisions. Those no look passes can be brutal. 

 

But I hate guys who show indifference out there. Whatever deals. Accept losing ... JT hates losing and shows it outwardly.

 

If he reels in some of the stuff that people are so focused on, they'll start noticing what he does bring. We need more of that...especially if/when we hit the playoffs. I don't care what anyone says, he's a leader on this team. He's often seen pre face off directing traffic and talking to the guys. He's a communicator. 

 

The stick and gate slams are ridiculously overblown. He's passionate and that's what we're seeing. The other stuff...yes. That needs work but it doesn't discount his production or that he is often the one guy who'll drag us out of a funk. Like last year.

Obviously mgmt has determined we’ll get more value per dollar from JTM than Bo. Personality wise, they’ve also decided we needed to change the prevailing mentality. Both good decisions.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Devron said:

Thanks man, really appreciate the grammar lesson 

[coolboarder]

Petterson is more of sustainable with point producer than Horvat ever will be.  Horvat relied on tipping goals and has Miller, Hughes, and Petterson to feed him on PP on bumper spot.  Isles do not have enough playmakers on the team to sustain his production.  Logic tells me that Vancouver has enough firepower to score goals but with a defensive upgrades, we'll fill those holes enough to win more games than lose games if they are able to sustain the offensive output.   Horvat will revert back to 50-70 points with the Isles without the offensive players like Petterson, Miller, Hughes, etc.  We have enough finishers and Isles do not have a finishing hands to collect more apples.  That is the reason why Horvat will flop hard with his contract.  

[Jaimito]

Good for Bo. He's earned that big contract he wanted. 

 

PA was right to move on. That sort of contract doesn't fit well with what they are trying to do.  We can argue neither was JTs.  But you can't make the same mistake twice. 

Re-signing a player on their career yr, only to see them decline the following yr. We saw that with EP, QH, BB, JT.   They all played worse after signing big contracts.  EP bounced back this yr, and QH the second half, thank goodness.   

 

Money is a big motivator.  Don't kid yourself. It's called professional sports. 

[Devron]

2 minutes ago, Bounce000 said:

You have to end a sentence with a period.

Alright now that is funny haha 

[Nuckin Kingsly]

5 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

Many here have become so fixated on what he does wrong, they overlook what he does right. He also makes it easy for them to do so at times...but it's snowballed. People are just programmed to slam JT at this point at every opportunity.

 

The one thing about JT, for me, is he IS surly and grouchy and, on ice, you need some of that. He was the first one to jump in after Tanner fought...he was fired up and ready to go. He plays a strong game out there and, yes, he sometimes floats off the ice but it's not a sustained deal. He's often worked hard and is sometimes gassed as he leaves the ice. Sure, other times, it's a matter of giving up on a play that he's blown and is a bit "pouty"...but he usually comes back the next shift with a vengeance. 

 

We need more guys who are "all in" and he really is. Even IF those momentarily lapses that are shown (over and over) don't support that...they're the exception, not the rule. He's high risk, high reward and has to work on the "risk" part and make better decisions. Those no look passes can be brutal. 

 

But I hate guys who show indifference out there. Whatever deals. Accept losing ... JT hates losing and shows it outwardly.

 

If he reels in some of the stuff that people are so focused on, they'll start noticing what he does bring. We need more of that...especially if/when we hit the playoffs. I don't care what anyone says, he's a leader on this team. He's often seen pre face off directing traffic and talking to the guys. He's a communicator. 

One of the most insightful posts I have read on this board in 20 years.. Nailed it right on the head Deb, us nucks love a good scape goat. But I’d love to have a couple more millers on this team. That fire is what gets you going through funks and rough patches. Tocchet will get him in line more, hold him more accountable for too many outbursts from this year. But his outbursts before the year were a welcomed sight. 

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, DeNiro said:

This is the kind of team building that Benning was responsible for.

 

Just acquiring the top player that happens to be available and giving them what they want.

 

Lou has ways liked Bo sure, but you can’t tell me this is part of a long term plan to build a contender.

 

His impatience is showing. Makes me wonder if we should look to do another deal with the Isles. Schenn to NY for Samuel Bolduc?

I doubt it, if anything they'll look to restructure their forward group a bit over the next season or two. Their D is solid and Sorokin looks like a keeper.

 

I'd expect a Bailey buyout in the offseason, it'll look like this. https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/josh-bailey

 

The season after it'll probably be Palmeiri if his production falls off. https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/kyle-palmieri

 

Combine that with a rising cap and they'll probably be looking to replace two of their top six forwards over the next year or two. 

 

Could see Nelson re-signed if his production continues, they'll probably ride out Lee (although I could see his production continuing at it's current level til his deal is up). 

 

I'll be surprised if the next two or three seasons doesn't see a restructuring of their forward group. https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/islanders