OEL - do we really need him?

[dougieL]

Even though the last three games in which we've gone 2-0-1 haven't been against very good teams (Flyers, Preds, Blues), it is still pretty clear from watching these games that we are no worse off without OEL than we are with him. I recall earlier in the season some arguing that our defense would be in tatters without him. Well, it turns out that you can replace OEL with a replacement-level player and at the very least not look measurably worse. Yes, some of his minutes are being eaten by Hughes, but can anyone really argue that Wolanin looks any worse or contributes less than OEL?

 

Will we get perforated by Boston next game? Probably. But we've been perforated multiple times with OEL in the lineup (and on the ice for many of those perforations). Again, not measurably worse. I'm hoping we can kind of end the debate as to how much OEL is actually worth - no, he's not a low-end first pair, not a high-end second pair, not worth in the vicinity of $5m.

 

Look - I'm sure OEL is a good guy. By all accounts, he takes pride in his performance, and takes it personally when he doesn't perform well. There must be a reason he wore a 'C' in Arizona and an 'A' here. He had some good years, no doubt. But there is no way he is coming even close to playing up to his contract, UFA-aged or not. And there is no way to deem the OEL trade anything but an enormous setback for the future (and present) of this franchise.

Edited February 24, 2023 by dougieL

[iinatcc]

Does this site have ad revenue?

 

Discussing OEL seems to bring a lot of negative traffic here.

 

If this site does get ad revenue then yes.

[Alflives]

OEL. Did we ever need him? 

[48MPHSlapShot]

We'd better hope he can regain something resembling top 4 form, because we're stuck with him.

[iinatcc]

55 minutes ago, Alflives said:

OEL. Did we ever need him? 

"He's a Defenseman the Canucks deserves, but not the one it needs right now ever"

Edited February 24, 2023 by iinatcc

[timberz21]

This thread, do we really need it?

 

Not defending OEL, but 3 games is not a good sample size.  A replacement can take his minutes in a short span, but for a full season?  I believe we went 2-1-1 when QH was injured early in the season, doesn't mean squat.

[Ghostsof1915]

The issue is how would the team move him?

[dougieL]

24 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

The issue is how would the team move him?

I'm really curious to see if they buy him out this summer. Our cap savings would be almost $7m next season; we could presumably use that space to take on bad money for a first round pick (dream scenario of course).

[Putgolzin]

2 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

We'd better hope he can regain something resembling top 4 form, because we're stuck with him.

I think so.

I guess there is the buyout possibility, but it feels far-fetched to think our ownership would do that (maybe I'm wrong).

 

I also recall that within the last couple of months BB said he was probably our best Dman. Now I don't think that's a real argument, but it's also true that he's probably not quite as bad as the torch and pitchfork mobs are squawking about.

 

So I guess I wonder if he could regain some form if he could have a solid run with a solid Dman on the right side. If he didn't have to be second-guessing whatever Myers was going to do, could he become a decent D with some offensive upside again?

[48MPHSlapShot]

7 minutes ago, Putgolzin said:

I think so.

I guess there is the buyout possibility, but it feels far-fetched to think our ownership would do that (maybe I'm wrong).

 

I also recall that within the last couple of months BB said he was probably our best Dman. Now I don't think that's a real argument, but it's also true that he's probably not quite as bad as the torch and pitchfork mobs are squawking about.

 

So I guess I wonder if he could regain some form if he could have a solid run with a solid Dman on the right side. If he didn't have to be second-guessing whatever Myers was going to do, could he become a decent D with some offensive upside again?

It is important to remember that he took a pretty significant injury in the offseason which I'm sure affected his fitness coming into camp. They should just shut him down for the rest of the year and give him as much time as he needs to get into the best possible shape he can be in for next year.

[fanfor42]

Having watched OEL a number of times live, and following him around the rink I have drawn a number of conclusions.  You can see his talent.  He is smooth and experienced and often makes smart plays and doesn't panic.

The issue with him is he is slowing down and sometimes now is getting beat wide to the outside when he pivots and a faster opponent goes around him.

 

Because of this he is certainly not capable of playing as a number 1 and maybe not even a number 3.  That makes him a number 5 playing on the 3rd pairing - so as to avoid playing the opponents top lines and losing foot battles.

 

That's where the problem lies.  You can't pay 7.3M to a 3rd pairing D and if you play him further up the lineup he will get beat more often than you want. 

 

 

[FaninMex]

5 hours ago, dougieL said:

Even though the last three games in which we've gone 2-0-1 haven't been against very good teams (Flyers, Preds, Blues), it is still pretty clear from watching these games that we are no worse off without OEL than we are with him. I recall earlier in the season some arguing that our defense would be in tatters without him. Well, it turns out that you can replace OEL with a replacement-level player and at the very least not look measurably worse. Yes, some of his minutes are being eaten by Hughes, but can anyone really argue that Wolanin looks any worse or contributes less than OEL?

 

Will we get perforated by Boston next game? Probably. But we've been perforated multiple times with OEL in the lineup (and on the ice for many of those perforations). Again, not measurably worse. I'm hoping we can kind of end the debate as to how much OEL is actually worth - no, he's not a low-end first pair, not a high-end second pair, not worth in the vicinity of $5m.

 

Look - I'm sure OEL is a good guy. By all accounts, he takes pride in his performance, and takes it personally when he doesn't perform well. There must be a reason he wore a 'C' in Arizona and an 'A' here. He had some good years, no doubt. But there is no way he is coming even close to playing up to his contract, UFA-aged or not. And there is no way to deem the OEL trade anything but an enormous setback for the future (and present) of this franchise.

Except that we are not with Martin who has a mandatory 5 gaa in his contract. But, yes, OEL is the reason the team is losing. Quick! Get the pitchforks! Typical reactionary, comment. 

[dougieL]

5 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

Except that we are not with Martin who has a mandatory 5 gaa in his contract. But, yes, OEL is the reason the team is losing. Quick! Get the pitchforks! Typical reactionary, comment. 

All I said was that Wolanin appears to look no worse and appears to contribute no less than OEL. Do you disagree? But since you mentioned it, yes, if OEL actually played up to his $7.26m cap hit, the Canucks would probably be higher up in the standings.

[DSVII]

I'll always be baffled that we lost Tanev over him in 2020.

 

 

 

 

[FaninMex]

Just now, dougieL said:

All I said was that Wolanin appears to look no worse and appears to contribute no less than OEL. Do you disagree? But since you mentioned it, yes, if OEL actually played up to his $7.26m cap hit, the Canucks would probably be higher up in the standings.

No, you would still complain. Also, with Martin leaking goals the way he has, deflated the team. OEL playing like he did at 25 would not have saved us. Look at many of the goals, they were mostly on Myers side or because Myers went chasing the puck or it was a terrible goal against. OEL has been on the ice but rarely was the cause. Wolain has been good since training camp and should have been with the team instead of getting Stillman. It goes back to management not being able to make trades and trying to rob other teams. Only good thing they have done is trading Bo.

[eeeeergh]

My brother in Stillman how do you expect us to complete the prophecy and draft Bedard without him?!

[eeeeergh]

1 minute ago, FaninMex said:

No, you would still complain. Also, with Martin leaking goals the way he has, deflated the team. OEL playing like he did at 25 would not have saved us. Look at many of the goals, they were mostly on Myers side or because Myers went chasing the puck or it was a terrible goal against. OEL has been on the ice but rarely was the cause. Wolain has been good since training camp and should have been with the team instead of getting Stillman. It goes back to management not being able to make trades and trying to rob other teams. Only good thing they have done is trading Bo.

Theyve done a lot of good things

- got kuzmenko for free - 38 goal scorer

- got mikheyev in UFA at better value than his contract

- got filip johansson for free

- got Bear for pennies on the dollar in trade

- got a haul for Bo including what is at worst a top 15 pick in the 2023 draft, and at best, a lottery 1st for 2024. 

 

Not their fault they were saddled with an absolute disaster and other teams were willing to way overpay for the players they acquired

 

My expectations are exceeded. 

[PhillipBlunt]

No. Not at all. 

[FaninMex]

1 minute ago, eeeeergh said:

Theyve done a lot of good things

- got kuzmenko for free - 38 goal scorer

- got mikheyev in UFA at better value than his contract

- got filip johansson for free

- got Bear for pennies on the dollar in trade

- got a haul for Bo including what is at worst a top 15 pick in the 2023 draft, and at best, a lottery 1st for 2024. 

 

Not their fault they were saddled with an absolute disaster and other teams were willing to way overpay for the players they acquired

 

My expectations are exceeded. 

Anyone can sign a UFA, you could do that. 

Bear is not that good. Management let the guy that made him redundant on the Canes walk for nothing. Do you not see how often Hughes has to save him? How about that tape to tape pass to a Blues player in OT. 

They traded Bo because it had to be done. The pick can be anything not at worse a top 15 pick. Washington seems to have thrown in the towel so NYI could still get a wildcard spot.

Everyone parrots the other when they say they are saddled with a disaster but if they had traded Miller and Rathbone our D would have been much much better. 

 

Hughes - Marino

OEL - Lundquist

Schenn - Myers

 

And Fhilip Chytil as 3c. 

 

Great job management. Now, teams are making trades and they have Boesers agent looking because they decided to extend him instead of trade him. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, FaninMex said:

Anyone can sign a UFA, you could do that. 

Bear is not that good. Management let the guy that made him redundant on the Canes walk for nothing. Do you not see how often Hughes has to save him? How about that tape to tape pass to a Blues player in OT. 

They traded Bo because it had to be done. The pick can be anything not at worse a top 15 pick. Washington seems to have thrown in the towel so NYI could still get a wildcard spot.

Everyone parrots the other when they say they are saddled with a disaster but if they had traded Miller and Rathbone our D would have been much much better. 

 

Hughes - Marino

OEL - Lundquist

Schenn - Myers

 

And Fhilip Chytil as 3c. 

 

Great job management. Now, teams are making trades and they have Boesers agent looking because they decided to extend him instead of trade him. 

I think the Miller situation was our owner meddling in hockey ops. A couple weeks before the 2022 TDL Friedman reported the Canucks had pulled Miller from the market and were going to sign him in the summer. That is not what JR wanted (imhao). He wanted to trade Miller for futures (TDL trades are almost always about futures) like he did this year with Bo. But last year the club was winning and our owner thought the team was better than it really was. So our owner nixed any Miller trades. Then JR wanted to move on from Bruce this summer.  But our owner nixed that too. (reported by Seravalli) The season went sour. Finally our owner accepted he's not the hockey expert he thought he was and his meddling was doing a lot of harm.  So he FINALLY listened to what the experts wanted to do. Bruce was replaced by Tocchet. Bo was traded for futures. The club is taking a much needed step back to build for a better tomorrow.  That's a direction our owner hasn't agreed to since he bought the club. 

So, actually JR is the first POHO to get our owner to build properly.