OEL - do we really need him?

[FaninMex]

Just now, Alflives said:

I think the Miller situation was our owner meddling in hockey ops. A couple weeks before the 2022 TDL Friedman reported the Canucks had pulled Miller from the market and were going to sign him in the summer. That is not what JR wanted (imhao). He wanted to trade Miller for futures (TDL trades are almost always about futures) like he did this year with Bo. But last year the club was winning and our owner thought the team was better than it really was. So our owner nixed any Miller trades. Then JR wanted to move on from Bruce this summer.  But our owner nixed that too. (reported by Seravalli) The season went sour. Finally our owner accepted he's not the hockey expert he thought he was and his meddling was doing a lot of harm.  So he FINALLY listened to what the experts wanted to do. Bruce was replaced by Tocchet. Bo was traded for futures. The club is taking a much needed step back to build for a better tomorrow.  That's a direction our owner hasn't agreed to since he bought the club. 

So, actually JR is the first POHO to get our owner to build properly. 

You have been spewing that garbage without evidence for how long now? Prove it!

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, FaninMex said:

You have been spewing that garbage without evidence for how long now? Prove it!

Go back and read the threads with the quotes from Freidman from around the 2022 TDL and the recent ones from Seravelli. The support has been posted several times before. 

It's there for you to read. 

Nonis recently did a 650 interview and talked out why he was fired.

Gillis did an interview (on local sports' radio) just before he was fired.

 

It's all been posted on CDC before. 

So go back and read it.

 

Now bow to Alf. 

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

You have been spewing that garbage without evidence for how long now? Prove it!

The OEL deal was our owner pushing Benning to improve the club quickly, and again at the expense of the future. This one is my opinion, but I doubt I'm the only one thinking that way. 

[Hairy Kneel]

I think he looks terribly slow. I would do a full physical. I would compare his bicycle 02 test before covid and after. 

I'm sure there's lingering effects from covid. The boy doesn't look right. When he skates it's like the rusty tin man. 

He has no gas or giddy up out there. 

I would scan his entire health package. 

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Buying his contract out is so shortsighted that it wouldn't even be shooting ourselves in the foot; it would be completely discharging our firearm into our crotch.

 

Sure, it gives you some relief next year, and possible relief in subsequent years, but then you're extending the hurt by carrying dead cap for twice the length of the remaining contract duration, and paying the guy for services not rendered.  

 

 

Doesn't make business or roster construction sense at all.

Would our owner cut the cheque needed to buyout OEL anyway? He should but IMHAO he won't.

[eeeeergh]

14 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

Anyone can sign a UFA, you could do that. 

Bear is not that good. Management let the guy that made him redundant on the Canes walk for nothing. Do you not see how often Hughes has to save him? How about that tape to tape pass to a Blues player in OT. 

They traded Bo because it had to be done. The pick can be anything not at worse a top 15 pick. Washington seems to have thrown in the towel so NYI could still get a wildcard spot.

Everyone parrots the other when they say they are saddled with a disaster but if they had traded Miller and Rathbone our D would have been much much better. 

 

Hughes - Marino

OEL - Lundquist

Schenn - Myers

 

And Fhilip Chytil as 3c. 

 

Great job management. Now, teams are making trades and they have Boesers agent looking because they decided to extend him instead of trade him. 

1. They convinced Kuzmenko to come here, when every team wanted him, how can you not give them credit for that? 

2. A lot of GMs choose the wrong UFAs - we were all screaming to sign UFA defenseman - they could have gone and signed Klingberg, and what kind of a disaster would that have been? Instead they picked the best UFA.

3. Sure you can cherry pick bad plays (every player makes bad plays) but Hughes most definitely does NOT save Bear. Consider that Bear is a +5 on a tire fire of a team. 

4. How do you know that "deal" from NY was even on the table? And even so - Lundkvist was absolutely not what we needed - your proposed 2nd pairing would be an even bigger disaster than Stillman-Poolman. 

5. NY lost Barzal, theyre not doing better than 15th lol

6. Again - how do you know there were takers for Boeser at the time? And they went and got 2 better wingers for FREE so if we trade Boeser for anything its a net-win. 

 

Idk, this management team has done an objectively good job to me, considering the hand they were dealt. You cant be mad at them for not immediately fixing the giant mess of Benning's creation. It will take at least a couple more years and several buyouts before theyve even had a chance to put together the team they want.

 

Im just grateful theyre only making deals that give the Canucks outsized value, and are very stingy in their asset management approach. If Benning had taken that approach we wouldnt be in such a mess. 

[MeanSeanBean]

Nope, never did. It was a bad trade, but we just gotta live with it and make the best of a bad situation.

[Drakrami]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The OEL deal was our owner pushing Benning to improve the club quickly, and again at the expense of the future. This one is my opinion, but I doubt I'm the only one thinking that way. 

I think the owner always nag about making the playoffs to his GMs. But he does let them make their own decisions and probably need to ask for approval to make a big trade/signing. So I think OEL was Benning's own choice. 

[ilduce39]

16 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Buying his contract out is so shortsighted that it wouldn't even be shooting ourselves in the foot; it would be completely discharging our firearm into our crotch.

 

Sure, it gives you some relief next year, and possible relief in subsequent years, but then you're extending the hurt by carrying dead cap for twice the length of the remaining contract duration, and paying the guy for services not rendered.  

 

 

Doesn't make business or roster construction sense at all.

Even if you get a 1st, that doesn’t offset like 8 years of various dead cap implications.  It would cost far more than a 1st to have a team eat that much dead cap.

[GB5]

OEL at 1.5 million per year or less for another year or two = OK, I'd accept that

 

OEL at 7 million per year for 5 years = No, we don't need him

[lmm]

3 hours ago, timberz21 said:

This thread, do we really need it?

 

Not defending OEL, but 3 games is not a good sample size.  A replacement can take his minutes in a short span, but for a full season?  I believe we went 2-1-1 when QH was injured early in the season, doesn't mean squat.

I think there is a weird Superstitious Hope that by starting a "Do We Really Need Him" thread that the player will magically turn into the next Alex Burrows

Its been tried before

so far there is only one Alex Burrows

[FaninMex]

32 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Go back and read the threads with the quotes from Freidman from around the 2022 TDL and the recent ones from Seravelli. The support has been posted several times before. 

It's there for you to read. 

Nonis recently did a 650 interview and talked out why he was fired.

Gillis did an interview (on local sports' radio) just before he was fired.

 

It's all been posted on CDC before. 

So go back and read it.

 

Now bow to Alf. 

I have been on the board for a little while. I have not seen most of that. I have seen some speculation which you now repeat as if it is 100% truth in most of your posts. Again, I have seen posts from you saying that JR is standing up to JA and other posts that JA is dictating every action. So, you are all talk and hot air.

[The Lock]

Even if we don't need him, what do you propose we do to fix that? His contract is likely unmovable without paying an arm and a leg for another team to eat his money for the next 4 to 5 years. We'd also likely have to retain some of that money even while paying an arm and a leg.

 

I think right now, the only thing I can think of doing with him is hoping he rebounds. Even if it's not to his contract level, he could still make it so we need him to an extent.

 

 

[FaninMex]

32 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

1. They convinced Kuzmenko to come here, when every team wanted him, how can you not give them credit for that? 

2. A lot of GMs choose the wrong UFAs - we were all screaming to sign UFA defenseman - they could have gone and signed Klingberg, and what kind of a disaster would that have been? Instead they picked the best UFA.

3. Sure you can cherry pick bad plays (every player makes bad plays) but Hughes most definitely does NOT save Bear. Consider that Bear is a +5 on a tire fire of a team. 

4. How do you know that "deal" from NY was even on the table? And even so - Lundkvist was absolutely not what we needed - your proposed 2nd pairing would be an even bigger disaster than Stillman-Poolman. 

5. NY lost Barzal, theyre not doing better than 15th lol

6. Again - how do you know there were takers for Boeser at the time? And they went and got 2 better wingers for FREE so if we trade Boeser for anything its a net-win. 

 

Idk, this management team has done an objectively good job to me, considering the hand they were dealt. You cant be mad at them for not immediately fixing the giant mess of Benning's creation. It will take at least a couple more years and several buyouts before theyve even had a chance to put together the team they want.

 

Im just grateful theyre only making deals that give the Canucks outsized value, and are very stingy in their asset management approach. If Benning had taken that approach we wouldnt be in such a mess. 

Point 3 bolded: Bear plays on Hughes line and is a +5, yet you say Hughes does not help him. Could you explain how he isn't? I do not cherry-pick bad plays. I stated the most recent. Bear is bad but nowhere near as bad as Stillman. Bear is a 6-7 NHL d-man. 

As to point 1. Kuzmenko meet Pettersson. You will play with him if you sign. 

Point 2. Are you saying that we should not have signed a D-man? Not sure what to say there. 

Point 4. That was what most "insiders" were saying was on the table. For Miller, it would have looked something like that. 

Point 5. Washington lost again with OVI in the line-up

Point 6. They got more wingers without getting rid of any which is why we could not sign a D man. By not making trades last year, they helped create the problem we are in now. JR stated that we needed some work and that he would start 6 months after. This is his mess now. Also, there is always a trade. Teams are making trades this year, Boeser could have been traded last year. 

When a management team takes over with statements that we know the team needs RHD and some tweaks and then gets more players at positions that there was no need, the team is now on them. It is no longer Benning's mess. I would not be surprised if nothing happens with Schenn and Boeser. 

 

Back on topic. OEL is not the problem with the team. Mismanagement, AHL goalies, Bad coaching, Bad team culture are the problems. It is a team game this is not the NBA

[Devron]

Does it matter? Not to me because I’m not down to move him with assets or buy him out.

[Gawdzukes]

[ktcy2]

1 hour ago, eeeeergh said:

Theyve done a lot of good things

- got kuzmenko for free - 38 goal scorer

- got mikheyev in UFA at better value than his contract

- got filip johansson for free

- got Bear for pennies on the dollar in trade

- got a haul for Bo including what is at worst a top 15 pick in the 2023 draft, and at best, a lottery 1st for 2024. 

 

Not their fault they were saddled with an absolute disaster and other teams were willing to way overpay for the players they acquired

 

My expectations are exceeded. 

Signing Boeser to 3 years when they could’ve just signed him to one was the thing that made this management group look silly as heck 

 

 

 

 

[The Lock]

40 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

Point 3 bolded: Bear plays on Hughes line and is a +5, yet you say Hughes does not help him. Could you explain how he isn't? I do not cherry-pick bad plays. I stated the most recent. Bear is bad but nowhere near as bad as Stillman. Bear is a 6-7 NHL d-man. 

As to point 1. Kuzmenko meet Pettersson. You will play with him if you sign. 

Point 2. Are you saying that we should not have signed a D-man? Not sure what to say there. 

Point 4. That was what most "insiders" were saying was on the table. For Miller, it would have looked something like that. 

Point 5. Washington lost again with OVI in the line-up

Point 6. They got more wingers without getting rid of any which is why we could not sign a D man. By not making trades last year, they helped create the problem we are in now. JR stated that we needed some work and that he would start 6 months after. This is his mess now. Also, there is always a trade. Teams are making trades this year, Boeser could have been traded last year. 

When a management team takes over with statements that we know the team needs RHD and some tweaks and then gets more players at positions that there was no need, the team is now on them. It is no longer Benning's mess. I would not be surprised if nothing happens with Schenn and Boeser. 

 

Back on topic. OEL is not the problem with the team. Mismanagement, AHL goalies, Bad coaching, Bad team culture are the problems. It is a team game this is not the NBA

I think though you have to realise management has done more than just sign Horvat. That's really the point that's being presented by the person you're quoting. It might not be to the extent that person is posting, but it's still better than what you've stated.

 

Don't get me wrong. I still don't trust management I agree with you on some things, I just think though you're one extreme while the other person's the other extreme. You're both right on some things and wrong on other things. The truth's in the middle somewhere and going to highly depend on opinion as well.

Edited February 24, 2023 by The Lock

[24K PureCool]

We definitely need him for the tank this year. 

[alt kilgore]

You don't start a "Do we really need him" thread if its a rhetorical question.

 

You have to go out on a limb a little. With Burrows, he hadn't made it yet onto the Sedin's line. He was still a scrappy little french Canadian pest.  But it was obvious to enough of us that Burrows was very valuable to the team, even if he just kept doing what he was doing.  But as he moved up the lines, and increased ice time, it became more and more of a joke.

 

It has to be someone on the team that is not talked about much.  Or questionable as to if they are in the long time plans of the team.  A player who some think is underappreciated for what he brings. Goes under the radar.

 

Someone like............Burroughs.