Devil's Advocate for the Hronek trade

[iceman64]

2 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Craig Button said the same thing as you on Donny and Dhali, except not top 3 but top 10 I think.  

 

 

Well it's the same principle of not taking unnecessary risks (hoping) players will turn out to be something you need vs getting it now and then do it later for depth, which I believe is a much smarter thing to do especially in the place we're in. We're certainly no Tampa Bay here or any other elite team that has/had a lot of assets to play with.

Just the way it is but hopefully that will end soon and we keep our drafts for depth. 

 Everything seems to point to how well we do in the off-season to make some final moves but until then all we can do is wait... Not fun, no but that's what it's boils down to from here. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, DSVII said:

Will do! If this is truly his take, then this is my question...what player is Yzerman seeing that we aren't? If he values said player higher than Hronek for his team that he can also get with draft capital. It'll be interesting to see. Hoping it works out, when was the last time we've seen Yzerman make a losing or fair trade, I am always suspicious when he's willing to walk away from a coveted asset on any team aiming to rebuild/compete.

 

Larkin is basically their Bo Horvat, and it's pretty impressive he managed to navigate out of a cap squeeze and convince his foundational player to stay through this. For a core whose superstars, as you said, are 5 years apart. I think Seider will end up being more valuable than Raymond though. 

Yeah I never want to bet against Stevie-Y ! 

[Dixon Ward]

I think it is important to understand the value of a defenseman in the NHL.

 

Top line forwards average about 20 min/night, 2nd line 17min, 3rd line 14 min, and 4th line 10 min.  The minutes are divided amongst 12 forwards.  Adding a top forward has nowhere near the impact that a top dman has.

 

Top 2 dmen average around 23-24 min per game.  2nd pair 19-21 min.  3rd pair around 16. All of the minutes are divided among 6 guys Those top 2-4 also go against the toughest opponents.  When you add in a top 2 or 4 defenseman like Hronek you are having a huge impact on the defense.  If the Canucks can find a way to add 1 more solid top 4 defenseman with Hughes and Hronek, surely between Bear, OEL, Myers, Juulsen, Poolman, Johansson, Brisebois, and maybe an NCAA F, we can put together a sold d.

[kloubek]

I don't think the idea of acquiring him was a problem. Having a second scorer on the blueline seems like a solid idea. 

 

From my own perspective, I don't know enough about the guy nor know how good he truly is defensively. (I've heard mixed information on that). What I felt we REALLY needed was a reasonably quick, reasonably mobile, big shutdown defenseman who could compliment Hughes. If we somehow get that player, we're all good. Hard to do, considering the cap eaten up by OEL and especially Myers... being a RD. 

 

If Hronek is a solid top 4 defender and a cusp top 2 defenceman, it takes assets to acquire such a player. I think people's main issue is the timing. We've all seen the retool that didn't work out, and I think most fans believe a second retool is only going to prolong the hurt before we rebuild properly. But IF management is somehow successful this time around, I don't mind the acquisition. If not, it was an enormous waste of picks. Let's not forget in one year's time, Hronek has a 5.3m qualifying offer, but is more likely going to be looking for upwards of 6m. Granted, Myers will be off the books by then but that "wash" means we have no extra to allocate to the forward group, nor another solid RD.

[Ted Lasso]

2 hours ago, iceman64 said:

Well it's the same principle of not taking unnecessary risks (hoping) players will turn out to be something you need vs getting it now and then do it later for depth, which I believe is a much smarter thing to do especially in the place we're in. We're certainly no Tampa Bay here or any other elite team that has/had a lot of assets to play with.

Just the way it is but hopefully that will end soon and we keep our drafts for depth. 

 Everything seems to point to how well we do in the off-season to make some final moves but until then all we can do is wait... Not fun, no but that's what it's boils down to from here. 

agreed. Need to view this in the aggregate, with off-season moves.  Next test will be college/ euro free agents. An NHL-ready D or 3C on an ELC would go a long way…

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Dixon Ward said:

I think it is important to understand the value of a defenseman in the NHL.

 

Top line forwards average about 20 min/night, 2nd line 17min, 3rd line 14 min, and 4th line 10 min.  The minutes are divided amongst 12 forwards.  Adding a top forward has nowhere near the impact that a top dman has.

 

Top 2 dmen average around 23-24 min per game.  2nd pair 19-21 min.  3rd pair around 16. All of the minutes are divided among 6 guys Those top 2-4 also go against the toughest opponents.  When you add in a top 2 or 4 defenseman like Hronek you are having a huge impact on the defense.  If the Canucks can find a way to add 1 more solid top 4 defenseman with Hughes and Hronek, surely between Bear, OEL, Myers, Juulsen, Poolman, Johansson, Brisebois, and maybe an NCAA F, we can put together a sold d.

Excellent point and post. Cheers

[alt kilgore]

Folks who haven't reset to the retool yet are just in for more self inflicted pain.

 

The tank dream is dead. At least for this season. I don't know if some are confusing our democratic election system with the NHL  And fans with voters. its not a democracy. And the world is not fair. We live in a capitalist society where money rules. And only the very wealthy get to own the sports teams, and decide on how they want to run it.  We are simply along for the ride.

 

Now maybe there is a tiny bit of influence in embarrassing an owner if enough fans b@#$# about some aspect of the team, and the media shows pick up on that, and eventually the grumbling gets all the way up to Francesco. But I really don't think we sway the Aquilini's much in how they spend their money.

 

For the most part, we have to go along with the owners vision.  We've had to for all of Bennings disastrous torturous years while he ran around trying to bandaid the team for Francesco every Summer.

 

We are still working with the same plan that Frank had for JB in 2014.  But there is a big difference.  Firstly we have competent experienced managers and coaches. We have bonified stars ready to break out, and actual good veteran signings lately. This retool has a real chance of getting us to the dance. We now have a legit top RHD.  Yes it probably will be a one and done team as we will have no futures to build from, but hopefully we can get near the top of the league with Petey and Hughes, and Miller and Demko, for a few years before it all comes crashing down.

 

A proper rebuild there would be more chance to build something sustainable, with a farm bursting at the seams. But with a well engineered retool, we can still get to contender status, even if its temporary.  But if it works it will be quicker. Whatever it yields, we have to cheer it on and hope it works don't we? Even if it means winning more games down the stretch than is good for us draft wise. What else can the Canucks proletariat do?

[Ted Lasso]

4 minutes ago, kilgore said:

Folks who haven't reset to the retool yet are just in for more self inflicted pain.

 

The tank dream is dead. At least for this season. I don't know if some are confusing our democratic election system with the NHL  And fans with voters. its not a democracy. And the world is not fair. We live in a capitalist society where money rules. And only the very wealthy get to own the sports teams, and decide on how they want to run it.  We are simply along for the ride.

 

Now maybe there is a tiny bit of influence in embarrassing an owner if enough fans b@#$# about some aspect of the team, and the media shows pick up on that, and eventually the grumbling gets all the way up to Francesco. But I really don't think we sway the Aquilini's much in how they spend their money.

 

For the most part, we have to go along with the owners vision.  We've had to for all of Bennings disastrous torturous years while he ran around trying to bandaid the team for Francesco every Summer.

 

We are still working with the same plan that Frank had for JB in 2014.  But there is a big difference.  Firstly we have competent experienced managers and coaches. We have bonified stars ready to break out, and actual good veteran signings lately. This retool has a real chance of getting us to the dance. We now have a legit top RHD.  Yes it probably will be a one and done team as we will have no futures to build from, but hopefully we can get near the top of the league with Petey and Hughes, and Miller and Demko, for a few years before it all comes crashing down.

 

A proper rebuild there would be more chance to build something sustainable, with a farm bursting at the seams. But with a well engineered retool, we can still get to contender status, even if its temporary.  But if it works it will be quicker. Whatever it yields, we have to cheer it on and hope it works don't we? Even if it means winning more games down the stretch than is good for us draft wise. What else can the Canucks proletariat do?

Can you post this in the GDT for the next few games please?

[IBatch]

On 3/7/2023 at 5:11 PM, clutesi said:

A first AND a second? We're near the bottom of the league. This move might get us in the playoffs but there is no way this team competes for the cup. And that's what some of us have waited decades for. Long term we'll take a bigger cap hit and reduce our odds of being competitive. You never know, but the better odds are to play the long game and develop through the draft. 

 

Decades?  Didn't we compete for the cup with the Sedins?  Pretty sure we were the favourites.   A cup yes.  But ever competed for a cup about on par for the course with how many teams exist now.     Every 32 years - one cup one final loss on average.   Yuck.   And like flipping a coin, odds are still 50/50 even if it's heads a hundred times in a row etc.    Get we've been waiting for a cup forever.   Or half a century plus.   And that's a long time.    There is no perfect method.  

 

What I will say is QHs and EP look unique and special like Bure and Mogilny.   They don't want to go through a rebuild.   They want good players around them.   Funny.   COL.   How many of those guys did they actually draft?   Core guys - 4  McKinnon, Landsekog, Makar and Rantanen.  The rest were trades.   Should they instead waiting for a "new core" to emerge?   The majority of their roster was traded for (including Makar for sure )... Kadri, no cup without him, same with Toews,  Girard and Manson.     

 

A lot will have to go right for this to work ... but do think we have a solid base to work with.    Our "pool" sucks.   Absolutely.   Yet we are still now the 3rd youngest team in the league.   I for one, won't be at all "shocked" if we trade our pick this draft.   Nobody should really.    Unless we win the lotto. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by IBatch

[Fred65]

Kuzmenko is the counter argument about stick to the draft. An UFA from the KHL and unless I'm mistaken scored his 31st gola last night. Kuzmenko is the equivalent to a top 5 first round pick any day of the week. I suspect he's going to be better than Lkkermaki (sp ) Plus truth be told I didn't mind the Mikheyev signing, better IMO thanGarland I will mention however with the Cap being the determing factor you do need some quality players on ELC for a longrun in the play-offs

[KyGuy123]

Don’t look now but the pick traded as the main piece was the Islander pick and they are 10-3-3 since the Horvat trade with Barzal out of the lineup. They have the second most points in the NHL since January 27th. 
 

The trade is looking better by the day for a top 4 RHD who is improving every year and controlled as a RFA after his deal. 

[Hectic]

On 3/3/2023 at 10:31 PM, VancouverHabitant said:

I initially hated the fact that we traded away our 2nd and 3rd picks that we were going to have in the top 40 of the 2023 draft.  My big issue was the timing of the deal and why Allvin didn't just wait until the summer to make it.  Just wanted to present a couple of factors that I haven't seen many people mention.   

 

1. How much more perceived value do you think that Yzerman (and fans/media) have placed into the Islanders' 1st round pick now, as opposed to in the summer once the exact pick is settled?  We are still looking at potential of Islanders finishing in the bottom 12 and rolling the pick over to next year when it's unprotected.  

I feel that the allure of the 2024 unprotected pick is overshadowing the most likely outcome. 

2022-23 Islanders' odds to make the playoffs at the moment: 1/3 

If this happens, they're most likely going to be getting the 17th or 18th overall pick.  There is of course a small chance that they reach the Eastern Conference finals in which case they would get 29th or 30th pick overall, or 31st/32nd if they make the Stanley Cup finals. 

Now the most likely scenario (2/3) is that Islanders miss the playoffs and finish 13th to 16th from the bottom.  Just to illustrate what it would take for the Islanders to finish in the bottom 12, I have the point totals of the 12th worst team in the league in the last 5 years: 

2021-22    81 points (32 team league) 

2020-21    55 points in 56 games ---> 80.5 points prorated 

2019-20    78 points in 69 games ---> 92.4 points prorated 

2018-19    84 points in 82 games  

2017-18    84 points in 82 games 

 

Islanders are on a 90 point pace at the moment, but have made a couple of good additions in Horvat and Engvall.  

After taking all this into consideration, I would put the most likely outcome to be 16th overall in 2023.  This is of course far from a guarantee, and presents a big gamble by both Allvin and Yzerman but I think that the allure of the possibility of a 2024 unprotected must've been a motivator to make this deal now as opposed to waiting for the summer.   

 

 

2. The rarity of good right-handed defencemen...  

Why didn't the Canucks wait for this draft to come and go and just suck for a bit longer before pushing to get better?  

This was a very frustrating thought to a lot of fans/media yesterday.  I was really hoping that we would call this season a write off and then try and strike a balance between keeping Petey, Quinn, and Demko happy while accepting being bad next year.  

However real life is not a video game, and some players are simply just not available.  I don't care who you are or what you have, you are not prying Adam Fox, Cale Makar, or Charlie McAvoy from their teams.  They are just not available.  

Sucking for a long time and then acquiring all the players that we need in one season is not feasible/reasonable but it seems to be what everyone expects (including me).  

Sometimes you have to strike while the iron's hot, and Allvin has mentioned that Hronek was targeted by his pro scouting more then a year ago.  The encouraging part of this is that he had a breakout year for the Wings, which would indicate that our pro scouts know what they're talking about.  

25 RHD that is proven in the NHL is a near unicorn these days in trades.  

 

 

Last 24 hours have become a dunking contest between Vancouver media members on our management.  I don't deny the validity of the criticism but I do find the coverage and conversation really one-sided and extremely negative.  

 

I 100% agree with all of this. I'm a fan of the trade

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Kuzmenko is the counter argument about stick to the draft. An UFA from the KHL and unless I'm mistaken scored his 31st gola last night. Kuzmenko is the equivalent to a top 5 first round pick any day of the week. I suspect he's going to be better than Lkkermaki (sp ) Plus truth be told I didn't mind the Mikheyev signing, better IMO thanGarland I will mention however with the Cap being the determing factor you do need some quality players on ELC for a longrun in the play-offs

Yeah good call on Kuzmenko and also the fact that you do need some ELC players to fill out the roster. 

Avs had Byram and Newhook. 

Tampa had some cheap 3rd liners on their cup runs that cashed in after the fact. 

 

The most important part of both Boston and Tampa cap structure though is that their top players settle for 8 or 9 million instead of 10 or 11 (ignore the recent Pastrnak deal). So then the second fiddle players have to settle for a bit less and all down the lineup. 

 

Our best players are JT, Petey, Quinn, and Demko. They have all signed reasonable deals and if Hronek comes in and plays at a top pairing level like he's done this year, paying him 6 mil/year is not going to prevent us from icing a good lineup. 

[Dr. Crossbar]

On 3/8/2023 at 4:46 PM, kilgore said:

Folks who haven't reset to the retool yet are just in for more self inflicted pain.

 

The tank dream is dead. At least for this season. I don't know if some are confusing our democratic election system with the NHL  And fans with voters. its not a democracy. And the world is not fair. We live in a capitalist society where money rules. And only the very wealthy get to own the sports teams, and decide on how they want to run it.  We are simply along for the ride.

 

Now maybe there is a tiny bit of influence in embarrassing an owner if enough fans b@#$# about some aspect of the team, and the media shows pick up on that, and eventually the grumbling gets all the way up to Francesco. But I really don't think we sway the Aquilini's much in how they spend their money.

 

For the most part, we have to go along with the owners vision.  We've had to for all of Bennings disastrous torturous years while he ran around trying to bandaid the team for Francesco every Summer.

 

We are still working with the same plan that Frank had for JB in 2014.  But there is a big difference.  Firstly we have competent experienced managers and coaches. We have bonified stars ready to break out, and actual good veteran signings lately. This retool has a real chance of getting us to the dance. We now have a legit top RHD.  Yes it probably will be a one and done team as we will have no futures to build from, but hopefully we can get near the top of the league with Petey and Hughes, and Miller and Demko, for a few years before it all comes crashing down.

 

A proper rebuild there would be more chance to build something sustainable, with a farm bursting at the seams. But with a well engineered retool, we can still get to contender status, even if its temporary.  But if it works it will be quicker. Whatever it yields, we have to cheer it on and hope it works don't we? Even if it means winning more games down the stretch than is good for us draft wise. What else can the Canucks proletariat do?

The way I see, we have to go for it now so we don't waste Pettersson, Demko, and Hughes. This is where Hronek comes in from a competitive standpoint. We need build with young guys top guys like him to get there. The fact that Silovs is emerging is a hell of a bonus for us. Also, I'm really impressed with Allvin's ability to lure the college stars along with continuing to stock and invest in Abby. 

 

Next season is pivotal. It has to be success and Hronek needs to have a great season. 

[alt kilgore]

17 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

The way I see, we have to go for it now so we don't waste Pettersson, Demko, and Hughes. This is where Hronek comes in from a competitive standpoint. We need build with young guys top guys like him to get there. The fact that Silovs is emerging is a hell of a bonus for us. Also, I'm really impressed with Allvin's ability to lure the college stars along with continuing to stock and invest in Abby. 

 

Next season is pivotal. It has to be success and Hronek needs to have a great season. 

Yup.  I said from the start of the JR hiring.  I'd give him 3 years based on the amount of garbage he had to clean up.  Its only fair if Benning had 8 years.  That would actually take him to the beginning  of Dec. of 2024.  See if the work he does this off season and during next season and TD and next off season will all pan out in the first couple of months of 2024.  

If it all comes together even sooner, all the better,  I don't even want to think about the possibility that we could be in the same stagnant position after three years. I have a lot more faith in this management team

[The Lock]

18 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

The way I see, we have to go for it now so we don't waste Pettersson, Demko, and Hughes. This is where Hronek comes in from a competitive standpoint. We need build with young guys top guys like him to get there. The fact that Silovs is emerging is a hell of a bonus for us. Also, I'm really impressed with Allvin's ability to lure the college stars along with continuing to stock and invest in Abby. 

 

Next season is pivotal. It has to be success and Hronek needs to have a great season. 

Definately agree on next season being extremely important for us. I would argue that, if we don't make the playoffs next season again, the question of whether we need a full rebuild will be real. Unfortunately, even if it proved to be the sound course of action, I don't have a lot of faith that it would happen due to the "narrow-mindedness" that the Acquilinis seem to possess in constantly wanting a "retool" instead. Like imagine if the ownership has given the actual nod on rebuilding. Even from a business standpoint, imagine how much more money they probably would have made by now with what would likely be a better team.

Edited June 1, 2023 by The Lock

[NewbieCanuckFan]

On 3/3/2023 at 10:31 PM, VancouverHabitant said:

I initially hated the fact that we traded away our 2nd and 3rd picks that we were going to have in the top 40 of the 2023 draft.  My big issue was the timing of the deal and why Allvin didn't just wait until the summer to make it.  Just wanted to present a couple of factors that I haven't seen many people mention.   

 

1. How much more perceived value do you think that Yzerman (and fans/media) have placed into the Islanders' 1st round pick now, as opposed to in the summer once the exact pick is settled?  We are still looking at potential of Islanders finishing in the bottom 12 and rolling the pick over to next year when it's unprotected.  

I feel that the allure of the 2024 unprotected pick is overshadowing the most likely outcome. 

2022-23 Islanders' odds to make the playoffs at the moment: 1/3 

If this happens, they're most likely going to be getting the 17th or 18th overall pick.  There is of course a small chance that they reach the Eastern Conference finals in which case they would get 29th or 30th pick overall, or 31st/32nd if they make the Stanley Cup finals. 

Now the most likely scenario (2/3) is that Islanders miss the playoffs and finish 13th to 16th from the bottom.  Just to illustrate what it would take for the Islanders to finish in the bottom 12, I have the point totals of the 12th worst team in the league in the last 5 years: 

2021-22    81 points (32 team league) 

2020-21    55 points in 56 games ---> 80.5 points prorated 

2019-20    78 points in 69 games ---> 92.4 points prorated 

2018-19    84 points in 82 games  

2017-18    84 points in 82 games 

 

Islanders are on a 90 point pace at the moment, but have made a couple of good additions in Horvat and Engvall.  

After taking all this into consideration, I would put the most likely outcome to be 16th overall in 2023.  This is of course far from a guarantee, and presents a big gamble by both Allvin and Yzerman but I think that the allure of the possibility of a 2024 unprotected must've been a motivator to make this deal now as opposed to waiting for the summer.   

 

 

2. The rarity of good right-handed defencemen...  

Why didn't the Canucks wait for this draft to come and go and just suck for a bit longer before pushing to get better?  

This was a very frustrating thought to a lot of fans/media yesterday.  I was really hoping that we would call this season a write off and then try and strike a balance between keeping Petey, Quinn, and Demko happy while accepting being bad next year.  

However real life is not a video game, and some players are simply just not available.  I don't care who you are or what you have, you are not prying Adam Fox, Cale Makar, or Charlie McAvoy from their teams.  They are just not available.  

Sucking for a long time and then acquiring all the players that we need in one season is not feasible/reasonable but it seems to be what everyone expects (including me).  

Sometimes you have to strike while the iron's hot, and Allvin has mentioned that Hronek was targeted by his pro scouting more then a year ago.  The encouraging part of this is that he had a breakout year for the Wings, which would indicate that our pro scouts know what they're talking about.  

25 RHD that is proven in the NHL is a near unicorn these days in trades.  

 

 

Last 24 hours have become a dunking contest between Vancouver media members on our management.  I don't deny the validity of the criticism but I do find the coverage and conversation really one-sided and extremely negative.  

 

Rarity of good right side D?  Could wait for a dofus like Benning to let a Tanev walk away for nothing.  A solid stopgap solution until you can draft one 

[Dr. Crossbar]

54 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Definately agree on next season being extremely important for us. I would argue that, if we don't make the playoffs next season again, the question of whether we need a full rebuild will be real. Unfortunately, even if it proved to be the sound course of action, I don't have a lot of faith that it would happen due to the "narrow-mindedness" that the Acquilinis seem to possess in constantly wanting a "retool" instead. Like imagine if the ownership has given the actual nod on rebuilding. Even from a business standpoint, imagine how much more money they probably would have made by now with what would likely be a better team.

I get what you're saying but I don't think we're rebuilding any time soon. Not until we give this core a legit shot.

 

It makes no sense to give up on Pettersson, Hughes, Demko for question marks. It makes more sense to build around them now and give them a legit shot.

 

The changes we've made in management and coaching, the changes they're making, the investment in Abby, look to be lining is up for a better season next year. I'd say odds are better we have a successful season than not. Especially with our goaltending, which was abysmal last season.

 

I also don't see not rebuilding as "narrow-mindedness" since there's no guarantee that a rebuild will pan out. I get the hesitation to rebuild. Just look at how many top picks we've had that didn't pan out - it's astounding really - so it's not such a given that the team would likely be better in rebuild. We could easily get caught in an ongoing cycle of never getting better.

 

And I'm not saying we shouldn't rebuild at some point but now is not the time. The time was when Benning took over, and those 8 years. Asking fans to endure another 8 years isn't realistic imo. Not right now.

 

This is just me, my opinion, but I really believe fans of this team deserve a cup winning team sooner than later ... and shouldn't have to wait through a rebuild that potentially could be another 10 years or more. We went through 8 years of Benning ... it's time to go for it now and win with the pieces that we waited on. 

 

 

 

 

[Dr. Crossbar]

2 hours ago, kilgore said:

Yup.  I said from the start of the JR hiring.  I'd give him 3 years based on the amount of garbage he had to clean up.  Its only fair if Benning had 8 years.  That would actually take him to the beginning  of Dec. of 2024.  See if the work he does this off season and during next season and TD and next off season will all pan out in the first couple of months of 2024.  

If it all comes together even sooner, all the better,  I don't even want to think about the possibility that we could be in the same stagnant position after three years. I have a lot more faith in this management team

On the same page. I think odds are pretty good for next season. I mean, JR and Allvin came in and gave 2-3 years as an estimate ... next year is year three. They essentially wasted the first year not making changes after the Bruce run but Allvin has been the busiest GM in the past year.

 

There are massive expectations and raised standards this coming season, and rightfully so, plus the offseason, the draft, new changes ... I think next season will be the start of good things and our new window. Gotta be in the playoffs imo. 

[The Lock]

40 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

I get what you're saying but I don't think we're rebuilding any time soon. Not until we give this core a legit shot.

 

It makes no sense to give up on Pettersson, Hughes, Demko for question marks. It makes more sense to build around them now and give them a legit shot.

 

The changes we've made in management and coaching, the changes they're making, the investment in Abby, look to be lining is up for a better season next year. I'd say odds are better we have a successful season than not. Especially with our goaltending, which was abysmal last season.

 

I also don't see not rebuilding as "narrow-mindedness" since there's no guarantee that a rebuild will pan out. I get the hesitation to rebuild. Just look at how many top picks we've had that didn't pan out - it's astounding really - so it's not such a given that the team would likely be better in rebuild. We could easily get caught in an ongoing cycle of never getting better.

 

And I'm not saying we shouldn't rebuild at some point but now is not the time. The time was when Benning took over, and those 8 years. Asking fans to endure another 8 years isn't realistic imo. Not right now.

 

This is just me, my opinion, but I really believe fans of this team deserve a cup winning team sooner than later ... and shouldn't have to wait through a rebuild that potentially could be another 10 years or more. We went through 8 years of Benning ... it's time to go for it now and win with the pieces that we waited on. 

 

I agree that it makes not sense to give up on the core at the moment. It's just if more of this continues to the point where it looks less and less like we have a good team, it's going to get harder and harder to be able to have faith in the core as a fan. While it makes no sense now, it might make sense at some point. Truth is, we don't know what this team will be like even a year from now. We can hope that it's a good team, but we really don't know as of yet. I'm not going to dispute the odds that you're mentioning, but we also need to consider the fact that we are talking about odds.

 

The blanket statement here is that there "no guarantee"; however, what does that really mean in the end? There's no guarantee a rebuild will work. There's no guarantee our core will be good enough right now. You could literally put "there's no guarantee" on almost any statement and it would be true. And believe me when I say I've used that very statement before myself, but the problem with that way of thinking is it really doesn't amount to much of a point if it could be used on anything.

 

As far as narrowmindedness goes, you have to consider even from a business standpoint what makes sense. A rebuild, historically, can lead to a higher chance of making the playoffs later on. Again, no guarantee, but you just have to look at the odds to really see that there's a better chance of things had we done a rebuild and not just a retool last decade. Again, no guarantee, but we're not looking for a guarantee. We're looking for a better chance, or a better odds, of it happening.

 

Obviously though, the past is here and gone and we can yell at clouds all we want about what didn't happen to no avail. My main concern I guess is that we end up with the longest drought of not having a good team we've ever had. I'm hoping I'm wrong and I'm hoping you're right.

Edited June 1, 2023 by The Lock

[DrJockitch]

My problem was that there was A LOT to fix on this club and this fills one hole but just one.
The timing was not right did not need to buy an injured player at the deadline which is the most expensive time for buying. 

We will see what shakes out leading up to the draft and July 1 but feel like with an extra first and second rounder we would have been in a better position to fix multiple issues. 
Hronek is a fine player, or at least was before his injury, and we may have been able to get him closer to the draft for less but will never know. 
I hope the cap goes up a bit and gives the flexibility for some moves. We need a big shake still and our D is getting smaller every year.