[Report] Cam Talbot to hit free agency

[mll]

50 minutes ago, Devron said:

Also Seattle didn’t take Gustavsson in the expansion draft if I remember correctly. Took some other plug goalie 

Gustavsson's numbers in Ottawa were ugly:  18 games  3.55 gaa  0.892 sv%

 

Minnesota is a very strong defensive team - easier situation than on a poor defensive team.  The Wild had also lost scoring so they got even tighter defensively + Guerin wanted them to play playoff style hockey from the get go with accent on grit and defence and playing to win those low scoring games.  

[KoreanHockeyFan]

4 hours ago, King Heffy said:

The Canucks already have a better defence than the Leafs and Oilers, neither of which is a good example of how to build a franchise.

Oof, that's a bad take imo. Going to have to disagree with you there. 

 

Oilers and Leafs defence aren't the best by a long shot, but no way the Canucks are better. And to be clear, I'm talking about team defence, not just defensemen. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by KoreanHockeyFan

[King Heffy]

Just now, KoreanHockeyFan said:

Oof, that's a bad take imo. Going to have to disagree with you there. 

 

Oilers and Leafs defence aren't the best by a long shot, but no way the Canucks are better. And to be clear, I'm no talking about team defence, not just defensemen. 

I'm talking about both.  Edmonton has 2 NHL defencemen in Nurse and Ekholm, while Toronto has 4 in Schenn, Brodie, and Giordano, and McCabe, but is handicapped with AHL trash in Rielly and Liljigren.  Both teams have key forwards who outright refuse to backcheck in McDiver and Double Flamingo, and neither team seems to be in a hurry to get rid of their defensive liabilities. 

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I'm talking about both.  Edmonton has 2 NHL defencemen in Nurse and Ekholm, while Toronto has 4 in Schenn, Brodie, and Giordano, and McCabe, but is handicapped with AHL trash in Rielly and Liljigren.  Both teams have key forwards who outright refuse to backcheck in McDiver and Double Flamingo, and neither team seems to be in a hurry to get rid of their defensive liabilities. 

Leafs’ top forwards will play defensively. Do when these two teams meet in the Final the Leafs will win.

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Leafs’ top forwards will play defensively. Do when these two teams meet in the Final the Leafs will win.

So you consider Nylander floating constantly to be acceptable?  You can't win when you play lazy prima-donnas like that floater.  You also can't make up for defencemen who can't play defence in Rielly and Liligren.  Leads will be golfing early until they find a way to get rid of these useless bums.

[wai_lai416]

10 hours ago, DeNiro said:

No way we go with Martin again.

 

The point is to have a backup that can take over if Demko goes down. Martin proved he could not handle that role. We need a cheaper NHL vet there until Silovs or someone else is ready.

 

 

not really.. demko's numbers was just as bad if not worse than martin prior to coaching change and him coming back from injury.. both of their play could just be a result of the "structure"

 

delia was awful too until the coaching change. so doesn't hurt to give martin another chance as he's been fine in abbotsford.

[5nothincanucksohno]

On 4/17/2023 at 12:01 PM, AngryElf said:

Man that Gus for Talbot deal sucked. What a fleecing

No kidding, another reminder of the "good organizations versus bad organizations" reality. How do teams develop/support players and put them in the best position to succeed (proper structures, systems and accountability).

 

I want the Canucks to improve long-term so I would be comfortable with Mgmt taking next year to reset - allow certain contracts to expire and remove as much dead weight at the TDL. If they can make solid moves this summer great but the most important piece is establishing a new level of accountability across the organization.

 

 

[Citizen Erased]

On 4/17/2023 at 12:17 PM, DeNiro said:

We have to be able to.

 

A reliable backup is going to be just as important as any move they make this offseason IMO. If they can’t win with their backup it’s season over again. Demko will be overworked and get injured.

 

If they can afford to re-sign Bear they should prioritize a quality backup first.

I would rather they give Johansson(spelling?) a roster spot. He’s cheaper, at least for now and has more upside. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

Don't think we can afford him, we've got bigger fish to fry like 3C and ideally a defenceman, and Talbot will probably be too costly. I don't really like Delia or Martin as backups, would much prefer seeing Silovs getting some games here and there, but I think Talbot will be asking too much. He had a decent-ish year with the Sens but is only one year removed from a massive couple of seasons with Minny.

[spook007]

On 4/17/2023 at 7:19 PM, Bob.Loblaw said:

Do we even have money for a decent backup?  I'd reckon we'd have to pay him or anyone something around 1.2-1.5 million.  And we can't afford that.

Well we have to have a B/U.... Delia is probably off the books, so there is part of the money....

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

26 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Well we have to have a B/U.... Delia is probably off the books, so there is part of the money....

Colin Delia is a on a minimum contract.  It is financially impossible to save money by replacing him.  Doesn't matter who you put in net - you can't pay him less than what Delia earns.

[spook007]

Just now, Bob.Loblaw said:

Colin Delia is a on a minimum contract.  It is financially impossible to save money by replacing him.  Doesn't matter who you put in net - you can't pay him less than what Delia earns.

I know. But we need to improve on our B/U. 
letting in an average of 4 goals or close to, is not the recipe for success, so yes they may need to find 0,5M somewhere to improve on that position. Or they may run with a mix of Delia/Silovs for back up games. 
But if they want play offs hockey Delias numbers has to be better, or it won't cut the mustard. 

[Gawdzukes]

On 4/17/2023 at 1:05 PM, HorvatToBaertschi said:

And nobody there knows how to play defense. In a division with Tampa, Toronto, Florida, Boston, buffalo and Detroit… the playoffs are year after year a fallacy.

They are getting closer. TB, and Toronto are heading for a world of hurt in short order. Florida is simply a middling team now, and Buffalo and Detroit, are in the same boat. I like what Ottawa is doing and they will be in the playoffs the year after if not next.

 

You make it sound like a lost cause or they're doing something wrong. They have a great young team in the best league in the world. Like you said. A strong defender or two and this team is going to be hard to beat for a long time.

[Gawdzukes]

On 4/18/2023 at 12:22 AM, wai_lai416 said:

not really.. demko's numbers was just as bad if not worse than martin prior to coaching change and him coming back from injury.. both of their play could just be a result of the "structure"

 

delia was awful too until the coaching change. so doesn't hurt to give martin another chance as he's been fine in abbotsford.

Nah, Martin sucks. I would sign any of 10 or more available goalies. He's proven he can't play at an NHL level.

[AnthonyG]

On 4/17/2023 at 1:27 PM, KoreanHockeyFan said:

I think the lesson of losing Demko is to get a better defence. 

 

I don't think a team is well-constructed if its season hinges on the performance of its starting goalie. 

 

If teams like the Leafs and Oilers can run on mid-tier goaltending, the Canucks should at least be able to make some kind of an impact with much better goaltending in Demko and a mid-tier backup. 

If your goalies have a combined -50GSAA mid way through the season, thats not a defence issue, that is purely a goaltending problem

[The Lock]

On 4/19/2023 at 3:13 AM, spook007 said:

I know. But we need to improve on our B/U. 
letting in an average of 4 goals or close to, is not the recipe for success, so yes they may need to find 0,5M somewhere to improve on that position. Or they may run with a mix of Delia/Silovs for back up games. 
But if they want play offs hockey Delias numbers has to be better, or it won't cut the mustard. 

I guess it depends on price in the end. If a better backup that Delia is out there for effectively the same price, I'd obviously be all for that. We do have to remember though that we're still in a bit of a cap crunch with our situation. Most good teams either have a base level contract for a backup or something at like 2mil tops in cap and it seems like the better the main goalie, the less likely that extra cap hit exists on that team.

[Ghostsof1915]

On 4/17/2023 at 7:24 PM, King Heffy said:

I'm talking about both.  Edmonton has 2 NHL defencemen in Nurse and Ekholm, while Toronto has 4 in Schenn, Brodie, and Giordano, and McCabe, but is handicapped with AHL trash in Rielly and Liljigren.  Both teams have key forwards who outright refuse to backcheck in McDiver and Double Flamingo, and neither team seems to be in a hurry to get rid of their defensive liabilities. 

Liljegren is not trash. 67 games, 18 points and +24

Is he a world class defenceman? No. But he's improving and he's 23.

Would I take him over Hronek? No. He's a decent depth D-man.

Rielly on the other hand, he gets points, but is an adventure in his own end.

Both over-rated? No argument there.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Ghostsof1915

[Alflives]

33 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

If your goalies have a combined -50GSAA mid way through the season, thats not a defence issue, that is purely a goaltending problem

It was both. When we had BB coaching and Bo playing the defensive structure (and commitment) was terrible. Bear talked about how bad it was on a recent 650 interview. Our goalies were facing a lot of high danger, cross-ice chances against. We definitely tightened up defensively and reduced those types of chances. Goalies struggle stopping pucks when they have to move cross crease. And it makes it hard on them to trust their teammates to protect far post so they tend to allow short side goals too. Having Tocchet and his staff changing the style of play and the structure we play with has greatly influenced the kinds of shots our goalies face. 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

They are getting closer. TB, and Toronto are heading for a world of hurt in short order. Florida is simply a middling team now, and Buffalo and Detroit, are in the same boat. I like what Ottawa is doing and they will be in the playoffs the year after if not next.

 

You make it sound like a lost cause or they're doing something wrong. They have a great young team in the best league in the world. Like you said. A strong defender or two and this team is going to be hard to beat for a long time.

So everything will go right for Ottawa, even though they have one of the worst d corps and systems, no NHL goalies, and forwards who don't help on defense, and miraculously Florida, Tampa Bay and Toronto will all drop in the next 2 years, even though they are each stronger at every single fundamental position? Hell, Buffalo and Detroit are more promising, albeit more boring teams. 

 

The things people complain about here in Vancouver; no backchecking, poor defensive corps, goaltending (when Demko was injured or playing injured), no system... This is the current Ottawa model. They finished a whopping 3 points ahead of us this year, and we were pitiful, injured, had the worst PK in league history, the most 2 goal leads blown in NHL history.... Our rock bottom is 3 points away from their promising team that you seem to like. It just doesn't really add up and there are absolutely no signs of the Sens being a bubble playoff team anytime soon, no matter how drunk Tkachuk gets screaming in the market that they're making it next year. 

[spook007]

21 minutes ago, The Lock said:

I guess it depends on price in the end. If a better backup that Delia is out there for effectively the same price, I'd obviously be all for that. We do have to remember though that we're still in a bit of a cap crunch with our situation. Most good teams either have a base level contract for a backup or something at like 2mil tops in cap and it seems like the better the main goalie, the less likely that extra cap hit exists on that team.

Absolutely correct... its all about value for dollars in the end. If B/U keeper can get you additional 6-8 point, an extra 1M is probably worth it, but ofcourse we need the money to be available. Its a numbers gane, and without going into long talks about finding money, they is little doubt, that getting rid of a winger could free up much need space for inprovement.