Who here is actually happy with the Hronek trade?

[Odd.]

2 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

What? We needed a RHD that takes pressure of Hughes.

Can Marino do that? Isn’t he a more defensive  minded player? 
A defensive D is much easier and cheaper to get and especially fit in Tocchets system wich makes it easier for a lesser D to perform at a higher level.

I think that’s the only saving grace with this trade for me. We have actual coaches with defensive structure. Surely our defense can’t be as bad as last season.
 

much rather score 100 goals less than allow 100 goals more, if that makes sense.

[Warhippy]

15 hours ago, Baggins said:

We still have an 11th overall next month.

We have an 11th ovrerall so far

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

By the end of the year, woo was their best overall dman.........an impact player at both ends of the ice and played with toughness and grit.  He looked like an NHL player from January on

He's waiver eligible this year so they will need to make a decision on him.  If what you say is true then I'm sure scouts have seen the same thing and will pluck him off waivers.  So, he's either making the team as the 7/8 guy or he'll probably be gone...

[MeanSeanBean]

41 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I don't recall any rumours linking us to Marino other than our own media plus CDC speculating because he played for Pittsburgh.  What evidence is there that we "missed" out on him?

 

Not sure what you mean by being patient.  Allvin specifically said they "targeted" Hronek" and were following him for over a year.  He was their guy.  When they found out that he was available (Hronek wasn't on the trade market), they jumped at the chance to get him.  They paid market value for him based on all the comparables for RHD...

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canucks-have-interest-in-penguins-defenceman-john-marino/

 

https://insidepittsburghsports.com/story/penguins-receptive-to-canucks-strong-trade-interest-in-john-marino/

 

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/canucks-taking-trade-swing-for-john-marino-wasnt-worth-plausible-price

 

https://theathletic.com/3333669/2022/05/26/should-john-marino-be-a-canucks-trade-target-analyzing-fit-and-potential-cost/

 

Both Vancouver and Pittsburgh media linked us to Marino. Not really sure what other evidence you could be looking for since GMs who are the only ones that know for sure rarely ever mention trades that didn't happen.

 

Being patient refers receiving a paycheck and immediately spending it. There was zero need to make that trade when they did. It didn't help the team short term, and if anything could have hurt our draft position if he had played more games.

 

Why make that trade then, instead of being patient and waiting for the summer to see if a better deal shook loose, like Marino did. And yes, I agree. They likely paid market value for him, though I would also argue they paid a slight premium when you look at the value set by his closest comparable in recent memory, Marino.

 

But why is a team with so few assets and also bottom 10 in the league paying market value for anyone? This team should have been being patient and seeing if a player came one to the market at below value instead on just pointing up the second we acquired assets.

[MeanSeanBean]

16 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

What? We needed a RHD that takes pressure of Hughes.

Can Marino do that? Isn’t he a more defensive  minded player? 
A defensive D is much easier and cheaper to get and especially fit in Tocchets system wich makes it easier for a lesser D to perform at a higher level.

What do you mean take pressure off Hughes? We have multiple offensively gifted defensemen already. Isn't the player we needed more defensively orientated like Marino. 

 

 I don't have a ton of experience watching either player. But one of my best friends is a die hard Red Wing and had closely watched Hronek since he was drafted. I can tell you that in his opinion Hronek is a good player, but not a defensive ace by any means. I can also tell you he was over the moon with the return he received, and in his opinion he felt his value was likely closer to the 1st and 4th. 

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, MeanSeanBean said:

I liked Marino more for us. Do you think Smith's value was still a 17 overall? At the time of the trade it was seemingly agreed as a late first or 2nd from what I saw. Hroneks a good player, but we payed a premium instead of looking for a deal like Marino. Like the player, don't like the trade.

Hronik is a more physical and offensively inclined dman than Marino.  From what I've read, his defensive

game has improved quite a bit over the last year; which can't be easy playing on the Red Wings.  He is the best

RD on our team and could be a very good partner for Hughes; but if he can help OEL retrieve his game,

he would be of more value.

 

Also, he will fix the ridiculous toi for Hughes and has a great shot for the PP.  Unfortunately, his next contract

will be way beyond Marino's terrific contract.

 

If he can be the player I think he can, then it's all good  If not...

 

 

[Timråfan]

8 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

What do you mean take pressure off Hughes? We have multiple offensively gifted defensemen already. Isn't the player we needed more defensively orientated like Marino. 

 

 I don't have a ton of experience watching either player. But one of my best friends is a die hard Red Wing and had closely watched Hronek since he was drafted. I can tell you that in his opinion Hronek is a good player, but not a defensive ace by any means. I can also tell you he was over the moon with the return he received, and in his opinion he felt his value was likely closer to the 1st and 4th. 

We can attack from both sides with Hronek on the team. As you probably seen with our attacks is that almost everything goes from the left side using Petey as a screen.

With Hronek our strategies evolve to multiple directions that will bring havoc.

 

Hronek means more time in offensive zone and less in defensive.

 

Wich of our Ds are offensive minded(and good at it also) on the right side? 

 

[Alflives]

11 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

What do you mean take pressure off Hughes? We have multiple offensively gifted defensemen already. Isn't the player we needed more defensively orientated like Marino. 

 

 I don't have a ton of experience watching either player. But one of my best friends is a die hard Red Wing and had closely watched Hronek since he was drafted. I can tell you that in his opinion Hronek is a good player, but not a defensive ace by any means. I can also tell you he was over the moon with the return he received, and in his opinion he felt his value was likely closer to the 1st and 4th. 

It’s not a surprise that when Hronek went out the Wings crumbled. He’s an amazing player. We needed a younger, right shot, top pairing guy. Now he can either play with Hughes, or (the option right now IMHAO) anchor our second pairing. We will have either Hughes or Hronek on the ice for 50 minutes/ game. 

[Phil_314]

On 5/16/2023 at 9:44 AM, -AJ- said:

Far too early to pass judgement IMO, but it really depends on if you think we can win with our current core or not. If you think we can't, the best choice is to trade Petey, Hughes, Demko, etc, and start over and get picks for this year. If you think our core guys can win, then it's probably more reasonable to get a guy like Hronek than an 18 year old that probably won't be in his prime for another 6 or 7 years.

Exactly, and with how Petey Hughes and Demko are emerging as the core, IMO it makes the most sense to bring in an asset that can likely fill our biggest need (strong RHD, and preferably a partner for OEL IMO, since Hughes can play with anyone so we should look at someone to stabilize the OEL pairing as no one will be coming to take him off our hands so we might as well max him out for what we can get from him).  Either you're blowing up the core or you're adding pieces to help strengthen it and I'm glad so far that we took steps to build it up.

Eight simple rules for building a Stanley Cup contender - The Hockey News - this article points out how contenders typically build around 7 core pieces, and so far we're 6/7 of the way there, with a question mark on who the 7th will be.  If Miller can remain the strong #2 C and Hronek becomes our #2 it really helps a lot with any future contention aspirations.

#1 C - Petey// #1 D - Hughes// #1 wing - Kuzmenko// #2 C - Miller*// another core forward - Boeser??* // #2 D - Hronek* // #1 G - Demko

Edited May 17, 2023 by Phil_314

[Elias Pettersson]

14 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canucks-have-interest-in-penguins-defenceman-john-marino/

 

https://insidepittsburghsports.com/story/penguins-receptive-to-canucks-strong-trade-interest-in-john-marino/

 

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/canucks-taking-trade-swing-for-john-marino-wasnt-worth-plausible-price

 

https://theathletic.com/3333669/2022/05/26/should-john-marino-be-a-canucks-trade-target-analyzing-fit-and-potential-cost/

 

Both Vancouver and Pittsburgh media linked us to Marino. Not really sure what other evidence you could be looking for since GMs who are the only ones that know for sure rarely ever mention trades that didn't happen.

 

Being patient refers receiving a paycheck and immediately spending it. There was zero need to make that trade when they did. It didn't help the team short term, and if anything could have hurt our draft position if he had played more games.

 

Why make that trade then, instead of being patient and waiting for the summer to see if a better deal shook loose, like Marino did. And yes, I agree. They likely paid market value for him, though I would also argue they paid a slight premium when you look at the value set by his closest comparable in recent memory, Marino.

 

But why is a team with so few assets and also bottom 10 in the league paying market value for anyone? This team should have been being patient and seeing if a player came one to the market at below value instead on just pointing up the second we acquired assets.

Those first two articles from Pittsburgh are from a one line quote from Elliotte Friedman.  The two articles from Vancouver don't even mention a source and are talking about Rathbone's value more than anything.

 

In any event, Marino went for a first (Ty Smith 17OA) and a 3rd.  Hronek and a 4th went for a 1st and a 2nd.  So the trade is identical.  Hronek is a more offensive Dman than Marino, plays the PP and also the PK and broke out this year with his best year ever so far at age 25.  Marino is basically a defensive Dman who doesn't play the PP at all.  They are quite different players.  The fact that Allvin admitted that he followed Hronek for over a year tells me he targeted that player and wanted that particular type of Dman to compliment Hughes on the right side.

 

Getting a defensive Dman will be easier to partner with Hughes.  Hronek is capable of carrying his own pairing on the 2nd unit and also adding offence to that pairing and on the 2nd unit PP...

[spook007]

19 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

What do you mean take pressure off Hughes? We have multiple offensively gifted defensemen already. Isn't the player we needed more defensively orientated like Marino. 

 

 I don't have a ton of experience watching either player. But one of my best friends is a die hard Red Wing and had closely watched Hronek since he was drafted. I can tell you that in his opinion Hronek is a good player, but not a defensive ace by any means. I can also tell you he was over the moon with the return he received, and in his opinion he felt his value was likely closer to the 1st and 4th. 

How big a difference is a 1st +2nd-4th v a 1st + a 4th... if you really like a player, I don't really think there is that big a difference. 

[PhillipBlunt]

4 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

We can attack from both sides with Hronek on the team. As you probably seen with our attacks is that almost everything goes from the left side using Petey as a screen.

With Hronek our strategies evolve to multiple directions that will bring havoc.

 

Hronek means more time in offensive zone and less in defensive.

 

Wich of our Ds are offensive minded(and good at it also) on the right side? 

 

I think loading up the first pair with two offensively gifted players might be a really attractive option, but it might be better to spread the offense over more than one pairing. The team needs more defensive minded blueliners with some size, who consistently use it. If Vancouver can find a way to move on from Myers, it would help to restructure the defense. 

These next couple of months should be interesting. Fingers crossed. 

[Honky Cat]

12 hours ago, MeanSeanBean said:

The last one that was traded was Marino, who I thinks a better player for us style wise, and went for less. Answer your question?

It doesn't mean that Marino was available to the Canucks in any way. Ty Smith is essentially a 1st round pick (17th OA). Who could we have traded, as a comparable on our roster ?

 

Its a pointless conversation if we never had the correct assets to acquire Marino.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Honky Cat

[Dr. Crossbar]

WE NEED A YOUNG RHD 

WE NEED A YOUNG RHD 

HRONEK 

HRONEK 

 

[Seannnp]

Owner of the Dallas Stars was asked on Donnie and Dhali if he thought the Canucks should enter a rebuild and he said no and I agree. 

 

You do not rebuild a team when you have players like Pettersson, Hughes, Demko, Kuzmenko and Miller. If you do want to rebuild, you move every single one of the core and draft players hoping they become who you traded. Makes no sense in my mind. What if the drafted players dont pan out? Another rebuild? Start over again in hopes of finally drafting a Huges, Petey and Demko? Sounds stupid doesnt it? 

 

If Hoglander and Podkolzin can take the next step and we can find another top 4 defenseman and 3C, there isnt much missing unless some feel Petey, Hughes and Demko are not good enough to lead us to the Finals. 

[stawns]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

Aman was a pleasant surprise, not as sold on Raty as you are but we'll see. He was a good acquisition, certainly, but I want more than one egg in the basket. 

 

I'm bullish on wanting a center who projects as a top six center. 

Even if Raty hits (and I think he will), they still need at least two possible top level C in the system, imo.

[Elias Pettersson]

18 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I think loading up the first pair with two offensively gifted players might be a really attractive option, but it might be better to spread the offense over more than one pairing. The team needs more defensive minded blueliners with some size, who consistently use it. If Vancouver can find a way to move on from Myers, it would help to restructure the defense. 

These next couple of months should be interesting. Fingers crossed. 

Hughes and Hronek can both carry their pairings, so best to split them up and use them together only when needed (one goal down, PP using 2 Dmen, etc.).  Marino would have been nice to play directly with Hughes, but most likely Tocchet is looking for a Schenn type of player to play with Hughes.  And we need another Schenn type to play with Hronek.  

 

After watching the playoffs and watching how the Vegas D dominated the Oilers and how Carolina's D is dominating the eastern teams, it is pretty clear that we need those big defensive Dmen to compliment our offensive guys...

[Seannnp]

26 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

Exactly, and with how Petey Hughes and Demko are emerging as the core, IMO it makes the most sense to bring in an asset that can likely fill our biggest need (strong RHD, and preferably a partner for OEL IMO, since Hughes can play with anyone so we should look at someone to stabilize the OEL pairing as no one will be coming to take him off our hands so we might as well max him out for what we can get from him).  Either you're blowing up the core or you're adding pieces to help strengthen it and I'm glad so far that we took steps to build it up.

Eight simple rules for building a Stanley Cup contender - The Hockey News - this article points out how contenders typically build around 7 core pieces, and so far we're 6/7 of the way there, with a question mark on who the 7th will be.  If Miller can remain the strong #2 C and Hronek becomes our #2 it really helps a lot with any future contention aspirations.

#1 C - Petey// #1 D - Hughes// #1 wing - Kuzmenko// #2 C - Miller*// another core forward - Boeser??* // #2 D - Hronek* // #1 G - Demko

Lets hope and pray Hronek can get OEL playing better. All OEL has to do is concentrate on the defensive side of the game and leave the zone exits and offensive rushes to Hronek. The less OEL has to do the more effective I think he can be. 

 

IF OEL can get back to form, I wouldnt mind running something like this: 

 

Hughes  ????

OEL    Hronek 

Hirose Burroughs 

[Seannnp]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

Hughes and Hronek can both carry their pairings, so best to split them up and use them together only when needed (one goal down, PP using 2 Dmen, etc.).  Marino would have been nice to play directly with Hughes, but most likely Tocchet is looking for a Schenn type of player to play with Hughes.  And we need another Schenn type to play with Hronek.  

 

After watching the playoffs and watching how the Vegas D dominated the Oilers and how Carolina's D is dominating the eastern teams, it is pretty clear that we need those big defensive Dmen to compliment our offensive guys...

Sign Graves now that Gavrikov seems to be close to signing an extension with the Kings. Really like Graves and how hes played this year with the Devils. I think he would be perfect. He's a right shot defenseman, no? 

 

Hughes and Graves

OEL and Hronek 

Hirose and Burroughs 

[Elias Pettersson]

6 minutes ago, Seannnp said:

Owner of the Dallas Stars was asked on Donnie and Dhali if he thought the Canucks should enter a rebuild and he said no and I agree. 

 

You do not rebuild a team when you have players like Pettersson, Hughes, Demko, Kuzmenko and Miller. If you do want to rebuild, you move every single one of the core and draft players hoping they become who you traded. Makes no sense in my mind. What if the drafted players dont pan out? Another rebuild? Start over again in hopes of finally drafting a Huges, Petey and Demko? Sounds stupid doesnt it? 

 

If Hoglander and Podkolzin can take the next step and we can find another top 4 defenseman and 3C, there isnt much missing unless some feel Petey, Hughes and Demko are not good enough to lead us to the Finals. 

I agree.  Gagliardi said he didn't believe in a rebuild and basically said there is no guarantee you will ever be good and you may end up like Buffalo, constantly changing your core players for a decade or more.

 

Dallas is a great example of a team rertooling on the fly.  If they win the cup then that should silence the rebuild crowd once and for all, which is why I am cheering for Dallas to win the cup...