[Report] Maple Leafs part ways with GM Kyle Dubas

[nuckin_futz]

How about round 2?

 

[Ghostsof1915]

Just now, VegasCanuck said:

Possibly, but a GM is responsible for what players are on the team. If there's a problem with the mix, it's his job to fix that.

 

Benning wasn't doing enough to fix the mix here, which is why he's not here anymore.

That and Benning painted himself in a corner cap wise. Benning needed an proper capologist who had the duty to tell Jim. No, we can't afford that. It's going to lead to problems.

[Ghostsof1915]

1 minute ago, nuckin_futz said:

How about round 2?

 

Sonic the Hedgehog: The Saga Continues ?

[DrJockitch]

They aren't hiring Benning.  

To answer why do people think he did a good job this year, he saw the issues and addressed them and well.  He addressed the D, added depth toughness at forward and RO'R.  

The problem is the heartless leaders of the team in AM and double flamingo.  Gotta be willing to pay the price in the playoffs.

Biggest problem is he probably did too much.  

Could be an interesting summer, Leafs, Rangers probably Calgary looking for big shakeups, Chicago probably starting to look to add players, SJ still looking to move out contracts to start rebuild. Cap tight across the league.  Will be fun summer.

[VegasCanuck]

Any way you look at it, with the assets that Toronto has, they should have been able to win more than one playoff series in the last few years. They need a change in perspective. It's not always about whether or not the outgoing guy did a bad job, its sometimes just about needing that refresh and someone to look at the team with fresh eyes and evaluate what they need to be successful.

 

I really don't think Benning did a bad job here, but he was left without a team President looking over his shoulder and evaluating moves that he was making or wanting to make. The fact that there was no one in that position is on Aqualini, not Benning. Owner hires the team President.

 

Yes, Benning made mistakes, but ALL GM's do, which is why team Presidents are there to help define overall needs and directions.

[rekker]

14 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

This is what happens when you hire an unqualified analytics dweeb with zero understanding of the sport to do the job of hockey people.  Dubas might get a job running the fryer in the concessions with proper adult supervision.

He was terrible, has no idea how to build a winning team. I take that back. He has built a world class shinny team

 

[Nucker 67]

What about that coach? He couldn't get his team going. Maybe he's gone next.

 

 

[Kootenay Gold]

24 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

This isn't good.  Toronto replacing him with a competent GM makes it more difficult for the other teams.  Hopefully someone else hires that idiot.

Not sure that any competent GM would want to take on that hot mess. I also have my doubts that he would have free reign to revamp the roster without interference from Shanny and senior management  / ownership.

 

[VegasCanuck]

5 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

That and Benning painted himself in a corner cap wise. Benning needed an proper capologist who had the duty to tell Jim. No, we can't afford that. It's going to lead to problems.

Definitely needed a capologist, but he also got blindsided by Covid. When he made the moves to trade for Tofolli etc, at the deadline, he had just been told 3 weeks earlier, that he would have 4 - 4.5 million more to play with on July 1st. All GM's made plans based on that. Suddenly Covid wiped that out and everyone was scrambling.

 

They all make decisions on a rising cap, and it could easily be said that Dubas is a victim of that as well. He made contract decisions with Matthews, Marner and Tavares, based on the idea that the cap would continue to rise. Without Covid, the cap is realistically about 92 million this summer, possibly higher with the addition of Seattle. As did Benning with Myers etc, he made a decision to sign based on future cap space and projected increases.

 

GM's make mistakes. LE was coming off a 40 goal season in Boston and there was a lot of GM's who would have given him 6 million, but he wanted to be here and had shown chemistry with the Sedins on the international stage. It was a logical assumption that he'd be able to continue that chemistry if he was with them on a full time basis.

 

[JoshuaGuy]

5 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

What about that coach? He couldn't get his team going. Maybe he's gone next.

 

 

It's Dubas' fault for repeatedly trying with a top heavy team. Way too much cap % given to the big 4 and couldn't flush out a well rounded team because of it. Big changes coming in Toronto.

[Coconuts]

Wouldn't be surprised if he opted to not return 

 

There will be plenty of interest whenever he decides he wants to take another go at GM'ing

[Kevin Biestra]

5 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Any way you look at it, with the assets that Toronto has, they should have been able to win more than one playoff series in the last few years. They need a change in perspective. It's not always about whether or not the outgoing guy did a bad job, its sometimes just about needing that refresh and someone to look at the team with fresh eyes and evaluate what they need to be successful.

 

I really don't think Benning did a bad job here, but he was left without a team President looking over his shoulder and evaluating moves that he was making or wanting to make. The fact that there was no one in that position is on Aqualini, not Benning. Owner hires the team President.

 

Yes, Benning made mistakes, but ALL GM's do, which is why team Presidents are there to help define overall needs and directions.

 

Sorry I gotta say Benning sucked.  His defense here is that he didn't have a boss vetoing his stupid decisions?  I honestly think a substantially above average knowledgeable hockey fan could have done an equal job to Benning.  Wouldn't have gone off book with Juolevi and could have just stuck to central scouting draft rankings.  Virtanen was a bad pick but that first round was full of all kinds of junk.  Random guy doing the drafting would have probably equaled that pick.  McCann was a good pick...doesn't matter, Benning traded him immediately.  All anyone had to do was not sign Loui and not trade for OEL and they're ahead of Benning right there.  Whatever good Benning did in both those areas doesn't balance those out and he was still in the red in both trades and signings not counting those two moves.

 

He shouldn't have needed a president to help him figure out how to use this thing.

 

[Kevin Biestra]

4 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Definitely needed a capologist, but he also got blindsided by Covid. When he made the moves to trade for Tofolli etc, at the deadline, he had just been told 3 weeks earlier, that he would have 4 - 4.5 million more to play with on July 1st. All GM's made plans based on that. Suddenly Covid wiped that out and everyone was scrambling.

 

They all make decisions on a rising cap, and it could easily be said that Dubas is a victim of that as well. He made contract decisions with Matthews, Marner and Tavares, based on the idea that the cap would continue to rise. Without Covid, the cap is realistically about 92 million this summer, possibly higher with the addition of Seattle. As did Benning with Myers etc, he made a decision to sign based on future cap space and projected increases.

 

GM's make mistakes. LE was coming off a 40 goal season in Boston and there was a lot of GM's who would have given him 6 million, but he wanted to be here and had shown chemistry with the Sedins on the international stage. It was a logical assumption that he'd be able to continue that chemistry if he was with them on a full time basis.

 

Benning did get screwed by COVID, and he did get screwed by the Seattle expansion draft because it happened when he had the best #2 goalie in the NHL and the Canucks were disproportionately hurt there (though he would have probably signed Markstrom until he was 45 without the draft).  Those are his two valid defenses.  But everyone did have to deal with COVID and the expansion drafts as well.

[Coconuts]

I wonder if Shanahan gets the axe too, he probably should. He's been top of the pile for a while. 

[24K PureCool]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

I wonder if Shanahan gets the axe too, he probably should. He's been top of the pile for a while. 

Think this is more of Shanahan winning the power struggle between him and Dubas. 

Shanahan ain't going anywhere. 

[Ghostsof1915]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I wonder if Shanahan gets the axe too, he probably should. He's been top of the pile for a while. 

It's been 9 years. You wonder if the board will give him any additional leeway?

[Highstickin]

26 minutes ago, Bounce000 said:

I agree. The way he did gymnastics around the salary cap and always brought in the right complimentary players to support the core will have teams wanting to pick him up. Too bad the core players get jelly knees when the playoff roll around.

He wouldn't have had to do Gymnastics if he would have signed players to contracts they had actually earned rather than contracts he hoped they would earn. 

 

I also don't think he brought the right complementary pieces at all. He did not fix the defensive issues with the team and the leader he brought in and paid $11M per season only had 1 more playoff series win in his career than the leafs. There was talk about the canucks having a country club atmosphere prior to the Bo trade, well your looking at another team whose culture is very much a country club and that falls on the GM.

[grumpyone]

watch Edmonton and Toronto swap coaches and gm's.

then wonder why they can't make it past the 2nd round for the next 5 years

[Coconuts]

4 minutes ago, 24K PureCool said:

Think this is more of Shanahan winning the power struggle between him and Dubas. 

Shanahan ain't going anywhere. 

Maybe, but he's been on the job since April 11th, 2014. Decorated player or not, he's been on the job for almost a decade with nothing but regular season success to show for it. Sooner or later he's going to get the axe if that doesn't change.

 

4 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

It's been 9 years. You wonder if the board will give him any additional leeway?

Dunno, I wouldn't be surprised to see him go too. 

[Fanuck]

39 minutes ago, Bounce000 said:

I agree. The way he did gymnastics around the salary cap and always brought in the right complimentary players to support the core will have teams wanting to pick him up. Too bad the core players get jelly knees when the playoff roll around.

I think in hindsight, most people would argue that he didn't in fact have the right players - especially the 'core'.  They didn't get the job done after multiple attempts - he should've realized this group would never win in the playoffs but he kept believing they would so he never made the 'major surgery' he should have.  I think their group could've accomplished a lot more if he had changed the make-up of the 'core four'.  If he had the guts to trade Nylander for a player like O'Rielly was in his prime (not the guy he is now), imagine the impact of that on the entire team?