[Buyout] Oliver Ekman-Larsson

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

If Hronek is as good as some here want to believe, he wouldn't have been traded.

 

Detroit can effectively be bad with him on the roster -- that's been the case during his entire time there.

This is the same mode of thought looking at Greens win record and thinking he must be a trash coach.   Or any other coach with a crappy roster or one going through such a transition year to year.     Is Seider also trash then?  Or Larkin?   Did NYI not just trade for Horvat ... he must be a bad player too. 

 

Won't pass any judgement until i've seen him play.   Am concerned about his injury.   That said, he's young, plays a ton of hard minutes and his WAR (not that i'm too into they model) is way better then OEL's was when JB made that trade and sold the fanbase on him being a first pairing D.    Management hasn't been doing that with Hronek.   To me a neutral view is much better to listen to anyways.   Media tried to smash this trade (the usual guys) and Button forceably jammed it right down Donny and Dawali's throats.    Maybe have a listen. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by IBatch

[Drakrami]

12 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

If Hronek is as good as some here want to believe, he wouldn't have been traded.

 

Detroit can effectively be bad with him on the roster -- that's been the case during his entire time there.

True. I can tell you the Detriot board was very happy with the Hronek trade. So if your 25 year old #1D just got traded for a 1st and 2nd, most people would probably be upset. 

 

Any way, what matters now is how well Hronek plays for us starting next season. 

[DrJockitch]

4 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

True. I can tell you the Detriot board was very happy with the Hronek trade. So if your 25 year old #1D just got traded for a 1st and 2nd, most people would probably be upset. 

 

Any way, what matters now is how well Hronek plays for us starting next season. 

Most of the complaints about the Hronek trade were the non-sensical timing of buying an injured player at the most expensive time.

It was a fair deal for a deadline deal as those are always overpays but why overpay at the deadline as a non-playoff team for an injured player?  If we had made the deal now it is a slight overpay compared to what similar D have gone for last 2 offseason.

Hronek was a fine player and should he be fully recovered I am sure will be a fine player again.

The fact that both sides generally seem happy is usually a hint that it was a fair trade, we just need to ignore the extremes of opinion here.

[Kurt Nirvanagut]

So, can someone explain what happened to this guy? I swear he was once one of the most highly regarded d-men in the league? His drop-off was so significant. I can't say that I'm thrilled with another buyout, but I also can't say that I'll be sad that he's gone. This was a terrible acquisition in every sense of the meaning. 

[Master Mind]

24 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Dude, Hronek was playing ahead of Seider in Detroit's depth chart.   Trading him (although he was injured his last game), helped with their tank as well, so improved their own pick.   That was the strategy.   IF say Zadina was like EP, no way would he have weakened his right side like that.   The trade made sense for both sides.   Also Button said, and agree with him 100% on this, had we not made the trade, given how bad our D is, might as well trade EP and QHs as well, and didn't bring up that they both don't want to stick around for a rebuild either.

 

Will absolutely take Buttons word over my own, or any CDCer I don't actually know credentials for.   Button is a scout.  And a good one.   His lists are regularly better than what we drafted lol.   Should have just gone with his BPA.   Listen to his comments about the trade.   He said it made zero sense for us to not make this trade, and that it was a great trade.   Also suggest maybe investing some time into the odds of the first round, and maybe later rounds working out.   Of course you can't get a gem without a lottery ticket.    If you're into a rip it all apart sort of thing, will you could be right.   But i for one, at least want to see what another GM can do to finish things up with this core.   Before throwing away a couple future HHOFers. 

You don't trade a core piece to help the tank. Hronek was considered expendable. No team would consider a 25 yr old 1D expendable. Hence why it's easy to deduce from that alone that he isn't that good. Then watching him play for years in Detroit, it's apparent he is not a 1D. Maybe he can be better with us than with DET, but still not a 1D. I think he's much closer to a #4D.

 

20 minutes ago, IBatch said:

This is the same mode of thought looking at Greens win record and thinking he must be a trash coach.   Or any other coach with a crappy roster or one going through such a transition year to year.     Is Seider also trash then?  Or Larkin?   Did NYI not just trade for Horvat ... he must be a bad player too. 

 

Won't pass any judgement until i've seen him play.   Am concerned about his injury.   That said, he's young, plays a ton of hard minutes and his WAR (not that i'm too into they model) is way better then OEL's was when JB made that trade and sold the fanbase on him being a first pairing D.    Management hasn't been doing that with Hronek.   To me a neutral view is much better to listen to anyways.   Media tried to smash this trade (the usual guys) and Button forceably jammed it right down Donny and Dawali's throats.    Maybe have a listen. 

I was meaning that Hronek could be kept and they can still tank. I've listened to Button's thoughts on this, and I don't agree. EP and QH wouldn't want out because we chose not to overpay for Hronek at the deadline in a lost season. We paid too high of a price, at the worst time.

[Master Mind]

22 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

True. I can tell you the Detriot board was very happy with the Hronek trade. So if your 25 year old #1D just got traded for a 1st and 2nd, most people would probably be upset. 

 

Any way, what matters now is how well Hronek plays for us starting next season. 

Yes, DET fans know they sold high on him.

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, Kurt Nirvanagut said:

So, can someone explain what happened to this guy? I swear he was once one of the most highly regarded d-men in the league? His drop-off was so significant. I can't say that I'm thrilled with another buyout, but I also can't say that I'll be sad that he's gone. This was a terrible acquisition in every sense of the meaning. 

OEL was falling off in play his last couple years in Arizona. His contract was considered the worst in the league when Benning made the deal. Then OEL did an interview after the trade and talked about how he always relied on his natural abilities and needed to train harder in the offseason. The guys who don't train hard to be their best are the ones who fall off the proverbial cliff when they get to 30. 

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, Kurt Nirvanagut said:

So, can someone explain what happened to this guy? I swear he was once one of the most highly regarded d-men in the league? His drop-off was so significant. I can't say that I'm thrilled with another buyout, but I also can't say that I'll be sad that he's gone. This was a terrible acquisition in every sense of the meaning. 

Injured his ankle last year at the world's. Didn't get a proper offseason, was behind all year and possibly caused cascading issues compensating for the injury that effected his mobility.

 

Possibility that there's no chance he ever regains form (which probably fueled logic for the buyout). 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

You don't trade a core piece to help the tank. Hronek was considered expendable. No team would consider a 25 yr old 1D expendable. Hence why it's easy to deduce from that alone that he isn't that good. Then watching him play for years in Detroit, it's apparent he is not a 1D. Maybe he can be better with us than with DET, but still not a 1D. I think he's much closer to a #4D.

 

I was meaning that Hronek could be kept and they can still tank. I've listened to Button's thoughts on this, and I don't agree. EP and QH wouldn't want out because we chose not to overpay for Hronek at the deadline in a lost season. We paid too high of a price, at the worst time.

Again, your analysis is completely wrong. Hronek was Detroit's top D, and is just now entering his prime. He's only 25. Yzerboy bet on Slo Mo and lost. He missed on Hughes and then traded us his best D man. We win the the Wings lose. And that's good. 

Hate is good. Hate the Wings. Hate Yzerboy! Hate them all. 

[BC_Hawk]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Again, your analysis is completely wrong. Hronek was Detroit's top D, and is just now entering his prime. He's only 25. Yzerboy bet on Slo Mo and lost. He missed on Hughes and then traded us his best D man. We win the the Wings lose. And that's good. 

Hate is good. Hate the Wings. Hate Yzerboy! Hate them all. 

The wings took what they perceived was the best deal for a player that didn't fit their longer term rebuild plan. We have to remember, that pick could have potentially been a lottery pick in 2024. All the other offers probably were not. In addition, one has to wonder if his injury affected their ability to trade him for max value to a 2023 PO team....ala Ekholm.

 

In the end, it was a fair trade; mid first rounder and a 2nd rounder for a young top4 RHD on a good contract with team control for 2 years. I love the trade, only wish it had occured last offseason.

[Baratheon]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Again, your analysis is completely wrong. Hronek was Detroit's top D, and is just now entering his prime. He's only 25. Yzerboy bet on Slo Mo and lost. He missed on Hughes and then traded us his best D man. We win the the Wings lose. And that's good. 

Hate is good. Hate the Wings. Hate Yzerboy! Hate them all. 

Do you think we’ll sign him to a “team friendly” deal?  Or will he want top D type of money? Should be interesting to see what the cost of him and Petey will be.  It’s why I’m so against giving up any type of asset to move Myers’s or Beau.  We need to worry about the year after their contracts expire.  No urgency to move an expiring contract, especially now that OEL has been bought out.  They both likely have some value closer to TDL anyways.

[bh90]

9 hours ago, MeanSeanBean said:

I didn't say Brisebois was our number 4 in your scenario, I said you penciled him for top 4 minutes. If you're penciling him in with "elite" defensemen Hronek you're expecting him to play top 4 minutes. This seems pretty straightforward. No Mayfield isn't our number 2, but you're definitely expecting him to be playing top pairing minutes, at least 5on5 if he's playing with Hughes.

 

Doesn't matter though. If the defensive lineup you posted is even close to what we enter the season with, that will be absolutely terrible.

Fair point. But in my opinion I think briesbois and Mayfield would be great compliments to Hughes and Hronek. Hughes and Hronek drive play and are most effective when controlling the play. They just need a defensive minded partner who can skate and hang back and play the PK

 

 

[ilduce39]

48 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

True. I can tell you the Detriot board was very happy with the Hronek trade. So if your 25 year old #1D just got traded for a 1st and 2nd, most people would probably be upset. 

 

Any way, what matters now is how well Hronek plays for us starting next season. 

At the time of the trade, that NYI 1st looked like it was a good bet to slide into unprotected waters next season - with little hope for NY to improve.

 

 

The 17 is still nice - and I’m sure a lot of fans are still happy with it - but a lot of pundits were buzzing about the chance of it being a top 10 selection next year.

 

I don’t think Hronek is a “#1” but he was playing at a first pair level last year.  To me, a #1 has no weakness and/or is playing at such an elite level you can look past a smaller frame.  Hronek was close but not quite at that level yet, even breaking out last year. 

[steviewonder20]

9 hours ago, copperlynx said:

That means, the GM believes that in 2025, we can get a better D for ~3.5M of the actual cap hit + 4.7M of dead cap, than OEL at his 8.25M cap hit. A close call, but I tend to agree.

OEL is likely to get less than 3 million and can easily be replaced for 3 million or less.

[Kurt Nirvanagut]

2 minutes ago, steviewonder20 said:

OEL is likely to get less than 3 million and can easily be replaced for 3 million or less.

Watch him go to Vegas and have a 60 point season and redeem himself and piss all of us off. 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

2 hours ago, Master Mind said:

Legitimate 1D? 

 

There are very few of those in the NHL, and Hronek is definitely not one of them.

If you're basing it off his time in Detroit he was the number 1D playing in all situations and produced very well. 

[iinatcc]

I'm disappointed this thread hasn't reached the monster 111 page Tucker Poolman signing thread 

Edited June 20, 2023 by iinatcc

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Master Mind said:

You don't trade a core piece to help the tank. Hronek was considered expendable. No team would consider a 25 yr old 1D expendable. Hence why it's easy to deduce from that alone that he isn't that good. Then watching him play for years in Detroit, it's apparent he is not a 1D. Maybe he can be better with us than with DET, but still not a 1D. I think he's much closer to a #4D.

 

I was meaning that Hronek could be kept and they can still tank. I've listened to Button's thoughts on this, and I don't agree. EP and QH wouldn't want out because we chose not to overpay for Hronek at the deadline in a lost season. We paid too high of a price, at the worst time.

Again, what is your definition of a 1d?  

 

Haven't heard that yet.

 

Can't say i've watched Hronek play.   But do know he played on a very bad team his entire career.   Edler.   Well he never became a 1d either,  not in my opinion anyways, and led the league in minus during part of our down cycle.   Yet still got a 6 x 3 deal, his last contract which for sure suggests management viewed him given the cap at the time, as a top pairing LHD.    Are you expecting Hedman and Weber and Josi types only get the handle as a 1d? 

 

To me, just so my opinion is clear, I expect a 1d to be able to do a bit of everything.   Kill penalties.   Play on the power play.  Score goals, and do well against the best competition in the world.  TOI shows what a coach thinks of a player.    The only guy, all-time, that comes close to fitting  my definition is Jovonoski, or maybe Lumme.    But Lumme didn't hit much or drop the gloves.     Weber stopped dropping the gloves after he got clocked after winning a fight, pulling the sweater over his opponents face, and feeding him uppercuts, but he hit him right in the chin with a fluke punch. 

 

Maybe it's ok, to say there is 16 number one LHDs and RHDs at any time in the league.    Hronek fits that.   Or if you prefer, call him a number two.  

 

After watching hockey for almost half a century, can say that things have changed.   And don't expect Hronek to be Chris Chelios, - but do hope he can be our Brian Rafalski or Brian Campbell.   Both guys fit the number one definition of the time.   Small guys.   Rafalksi is second behind Lidstrom for the most points in the 2000's.   Campbell, was CHI best D their first cup and went on to Florida and kept it up with a different team.   

 

Top four is fine too.   We needed another top four D.    

 

Not sure what Button meant.   But pretty sure he was calling Hronek a number one RHD in this league.    Maybe a top pairing guy (number two) is a better way to think about it. 

 

I don't even consider QHs a number one D in the traditional sense of the word, so maybe you and I our closer in definitions then we think.     But if Button calls him a top pairing RHD in the league, and given how much things have changed, can live with that too.    Pretty sure what he was trying to say was that he is in the upper echelon of RHDs playing as of right now.    Haven't we been bitching and moaning about this for awhile now?   Heck just pointed out,  Miller is 7th for centers in scoring, and 4th almost 3rd for LW's.   Since he came at 26.    Don't mind waiting to see what we've got before passing judgement.   And nope i'm not expecting any PP points from him either.   But am expecting he plugs a major hole. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by IBatch

[Alflives]

48 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Again, what is your definition of a 1d?  

 

Haven't heard that yet.

 

Can't say i've watched Hronek play.   But do know he played on a very bad team his entire career.   Edler.   Well he never became a 1d either,  not in my opinion anyways, and led the league in minus during part of our down cycle.   Yet still got a 6 x 3 deal, his last contract which for sure suggests management viewed him given the cap at the time, as a top pairing LHD.    Are you expecting Hedman and Weber and Josi types only get the handle as a 1d? 

 

To me, just so my opinion is clear, I expect a 1d to be able to do a bit of everything.   Kill penalties.   Play on the power play.  Score goals, and do well against the best competition in the world.  TOI shows what a coach thinks of a player.    The only guy, all-time, that comes close to fitting  my definition is Jovonoski, or maybe Lumme.    But Lumme didn't hit much or drop the gloves.     Weber stopped dropping the gloves after he got clocked after winning a fight, pulling the sweater over his opponents face, and feeding him uppercuts, but he hit him right in the chin with a fluke punch. 

 

Maybe it's ok, to say there is 16 number one LHDs and RHDs at any time in the league.    Hronek fits that.   Or if you prefer, call him a number two.  

 

After watching hockey for almost half a century, can say that things have changed.   And don't expect Hronek to be Chris Chelios, - but do hope he can be our Brian Rafalski or Brian Campbell.   Both guys fit the number one definition of the time.   Small guys.   Rafalksi is second behind Lidstrom for the most points in the 2000's.   Campbell, was CHI best D their first cup and went on to Florida and kept it up with a different team.   

 

Top four is fine too.   We needed another top four D.    

 

Not sure what Button meant.   But pretty sure he was calling Hronek a number one RHD in this league.    Maybe a top pairing guy (number two) is a better way to think about it. 

 

I don't even consider QHs a number one D in the traditional sense of the word, so maybe you and I our closer in definitions then we think.     But if Button calls him a top pairing RHD in the league, and given how much things have changed, can live with that too.    Pretty sure what he was trying to say was that he is in the upper echelon of RHDs playing as of right now.    Haven't we been bitching and moaning about this for awhile now?   Heck just pointed out,  Miller is 7th for centers in scoring, and 4th almost 3rd for LW's.   Since he came at 26.    Don't mind waiting to see what we've got before passing judgement.   And nope i'm not expecting any PP points from him either.   But am expecting he plugs a major hole. 

Yup. Hughes is amazing and Hronek is great. Now we need one more guy who can play a top four role at a good level.  Those three guys will carry the D. Buying out OEL cleared the cap space for our club to move forward while removing a guy who was (is) replaceable by a league minimum cost player. 

[rekker]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Miller is 7th for centers in scoring, and 4th almost 3rd for LW's.   Since he came at 26

Shhh, all some folks want to talk about is how JT will be ready for the old folks home in a couple years.