[GDT] ‘Tis the Dog Days of Summer, Are we Thinging Before Training Camp?

[Ted Lasso]

5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I’m old enough to remember when Allvin was ripped for trading Lockwood for Kravtsov. 
 

Lockwood is currently a UFA and unsigned.  We still have the rights to Kravtsov. 

Didn’t he sign a two year deal with FLA?

[eeeeergh]

40 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So we are $2.5 million over the cap, which is the exact amount of the Poolman contract. Poolman 100% will be on LTIR. But Pearson may not be. So we will have to save his cap space until September when we know more about his situation. 
 

So it looks like we are done for now unless we make a trade. Myers or Garland need to be moved in order to bring in more players. 

Yup this is it for now

 

no more thinging unless someone gets shoved 

 

Buyout window is closed too 

 

I thought about it a lot and I REALLY hope they can find a way to bring back Bear, even if he joins the team 2 months into the season, he was perfectly fine with QH, and it would allow us to put Soucy on the third pair where he and Myers would bully and obliterate every living thing unfortunate enough to venture into our defensive zone 

 

Let’s say we move Garland with 1m retention, that gives us 1.5m for Bear, and 2.5m for someone like Pius Suter 

 

Kuz-Petey-Beau

mikheyev-miller-Boeser

Pearson-Suter-Joshua

Podkolzin-Blueger-Aman

 

Hughes-Bear

Cole-Hronek

Soucy-Myers 

 

YES PLEASE 

[Elias Pettersson]

37 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said:

Didn’t he sign a two year deal with FLA?

According to CapFriendly, Lockwood is unsigned. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

I think we're done to be honest, we could start the season with this lineup and probably be a fringe-playoff team carried by our stars. We have a bit of decent depth now and plugged the main holes. Not with top-end guys but decent depth guys from deep teams who had to shed their lower guys. We've done this before - moves for Poolman, Dickinson, Studnicka, Bear etc. who have been forced to play bigger minutes and never really succeeded, but I think Cole will be fine and Soucy may be alright, but may need to drop his minutes.

 

My concern is still LD. Hughes is going to be worked hard again. I think Cole will play RD with Hughes, leaving our 2nd LD as Soucy who was basically Seattle's bottom pairing guy last year and rarely played over 20 minutes. I think his average ice time was 16 minutes. Finally at 3LD we've got...Hirose or Rathbone, so you know their minutes will be low. We could throw Cole at 2LD, he's closer to 20 minutes a night, but then Soucy will have to play RD with Hughes. I think they might get swapped around a lot during the season. Whoever is at 2LD needs to play big shutdown minutes with Hronek and take some minutes off Hughes. Obviously both are great penalty killers so Hughes won't have to do much of that. My concern is that Tocchet might not play the 3LD very much - Rathbone or Hirose may only get 12-15 minutes a night. If that's the case, and our 2LD plays 20 minutes, Hughes is in for 25 minutes a night minimum.

 

A lot of how our next season plays out depends on how Soucy and Cole perform. They're improvements on OEL for sure, but are they enough to take away pressure from Hughes? I'd like to think so. Tocchet, Foote and Gonchar have a lot of options next year.

[Canadian]

Let's assume that Irwin is slotted for 3LD with Wolanin and Juulsen as 4LD and 4RD respectively.

 

Let's also assume the Canucks average about 5 PPs per game, while also needing 5 PK per game.

 

For PP, pretty straight forward:

PP1	Hughes	5 minutes
PP2	Hronek	5 minutes

 

For PK, let's assume everyone kills some amount, with Hughes getting scaled back, maybe as PK3 right at the end of the penalty for transition to offense:

PK1 Cole 4 minutes PK1 Soucy 4 minutes PK2 Myers 4 minutes PK2 Irwin 4 minutes PK3 Hughes 2 minutes PK3 Hronek 2 minutes

 

That leaves 40 minutes of ES time in the game, with 2 defensemen on the ice.

 

Let's assume that Hughes pair (ie. with Cole?) and Hronek pair (with Soucy) average about 15 minutes of ES time each. With the third pairing of Irwin and Myers getting 10 minutes of ES time.

ES	Hughes	15 minutes
ES	Cole	15 minutes
ES	Hronek	15 minutes
ES	Soucy	15 minutes
ES	Irwin	10 minutes
ES	Myers	10 minutes

 

That puts the final ice times, on average, around the following:

Hughes	22 minutes
Hronek	22 minutes
Cole	18 minutes
Soucy	18 minutes
Myers	14 minutes
Irwin	14 minutes

 

I could live with that distribution. Myers maybe even a little higher some nights, getting 15-16.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Canadian

[DownUndaCanuck]

Not sure where Irwin will slot in, I see him as a Burroughs replacement. He did play bottom pairing minutes but 61 games with Washington last year, but is 35 and a year older. I think he's just some insurance in case Rathbone or Hirose aren't good enough, or a useful option if we want to play more physically, or of course if we get injuries to our LDs. Personally I would have just kept Burroughs but it looks like Allvin wants some tough veteran defencemen and Irwin has been around the block, so I like the transformation so far. I do worry a bit about pairing Irwin and Myers together - two old, slow guys might be trouble, whereas a slick Rathbone or ideally Hirose could really cover up a lot of mistakes and Myers' long reach could help close down gaps left by the kids. Honestly even Wolanin deserves a mention, last training camp he was our best player and he was the AHL's best defenceman, I think he deserves a look-in too. Nice to have insurance in Irwin though.

 

As for minutes, Soucy averaged 16 minutes last year. Cole averaged just over 19 minutes. Hronek was around 20 or so. Myers was around 20 for better or for worse. I do worry about how much we're going to strain Hughes, as bad as OEL was, he logged some big minutes, but hopefully our new UFAs can pick up that slack. The main thing is the PK and PP to be honest - Hughes has no need to play on the PK anymore. I know he'd probably want to, and if we're up to 6 penalties against maybe he'll get a turn, but we just signed a bunch of the best defensive PKers in the game in Cole, Soucy and even Irwin. On the right, Myers is probably our top PKer and Hronek second just to share the minutes around. Different defencemen for different moments in the game for sure, hopefully that'll get Quinn's minutes down, and in the end he may end up playing big minutes but they'll be easy PP minutes. Just as importantly, we could form a shutdown pairing of Soucy - Hronek to take top opposition away from Hughes and let him feast on 2nd and 3rd lines.

 

If we can keep Hughes around 22-23 minutes, he should be fresh for the playoffs. The last 2 years he's averaged over 25 minutes (25:40 last year!). We need to focus on getting that number down, and if it is high, at least it's easier minutes and not heavy defending/PK minutes. The same can almost be said a bit for Hronek, he'll end up on our 2nd unit PP and 2nd unit PK so will end up logging pretty big but versatile minutes. 

 

I trust Foote and Gonchar will know what to do with our new acquisitions but we have a nice blend now of physical, tough guys (Soucy, Cole, Myers to an extent, maybe Irwin) and puck-movers (Hughes, Hronek, maybe Hirose/Rathbone).

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

According to CapFriendly, Lockwood is unsigned. 

I just don't think it's official yet but everything is essentially done

 

 

[wai_lai416]

8 hours ago, 250Integra said:

Hughes-Cole

Soucy-Hronek

Irwin-Myers

Hirose, Rathbone, Juulsen, and Wolanin as and ready to step in if they don’t win a job. Johansson could be an option too. Looking pretty good!

Lol 2 legit top 4 and then filled with 4 5/6/7 defenceman is looking pretty good? People just assume cole and soucy would just be elevated into a top 2 pair and fit in nicely when they are a 5/6 defenceman on other teams. Not even sure if Cole is even capable of playing 18-20 mins a night at the age of 34 playing with west coast travel 

[DrJockitch]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

Lol 2 legit top 4 and then filled with 4 5/6/7 defenceman is looking pretty good? People just assume cole and soucy would just be elevated into a top 2 pair and fit in nicely when they are a 5/6 defenceman on other teams. Not even sure if Cole is even capable of playing 18-20 mins a night at the age of 34 playing with west coast travel 

Worked for Poolman why would we assume it wouldn’t work for Soucy. 

[MaxVerstappen33]

Button is just mad about being clowned  by a Canucks fan 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by MaxVerstappen33

[wai_lai416]

43 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Worked for Poolman why would we assume it wouldn’t work for Soucy. 

Poolman was smart played half a season worth of games and put his leg up collecting 2.5mil x 4 years 

[DeNiro]

2 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

Lol 2 legit top 4 and then filled with 4 5/6/7 defenceman is looking pretty good? People just assume cole and soucy would just be elevated into a top 2 pair and fit in nicely when they are a 5/6 defenceman on other teams. Not even sure if Cole is even capable of playing 18-20 mins a night at the age of 34 playing with west coast travel 

Cole is a legit top 4.

[5nothincanucksohno]

3 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

Lol 2 legit top 4 and then filled with 4 5/6/7 defenceman is looking pretty good? People just assume cole and soucy would just be elevated into a top 2 pair and fit in nicely when they are a 5/6 defenceman on other teams. Not even sure if Cole is even capable of playing 18-20 mins a night at the age of 34 playing with west coast travel 

Cole has been playing top four mins for a long time and his performance on the defensive/PK side backs it up. Seems like the perfect one year pairing for Hughes or Hronek (likely Hronek in a shut down role).

 

Soucy is the wild card but he is elite on the PK and if partnered with Hughes can focus on playing a role similar to Schenn (steady at 5v5, give Hughes the puck, and be physical where needed).

[5nothincanucksohno]

1 hour ago, DrJockitch said:

Worked for Poolman why would we assume it wouldn’t work for Soucy. 

Poolman was a horrible signing but thankfully Soucy at least has the elite PK background to back up the signing - hopefully he can slot in beside Hughes and be steady 5v5

[Mando27]

Great day yesterday went for a nice hike and the Canucks didn't go wild spending on FA's.

[coryberg]

6 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I do worry a bit about pairing Irwin and Myers together - two old, slow guys might be trouble

Myers has a lot of holes in his game but speed isn't one of them. 

[wai_lai416]

10 minutes ago, 5nothincanucksohno said:

Cole has been playing top four mins for a long time and his performance on the defensive/PK side backs it up. Seems like the perfect one year pairing for Hughes or Hronek (likely Hronek in a shut down role).

 

Soucy is the wild card but he is elite on the PK and if partnered with Hughes can focus on playing a role similar to Schenn (steady at 5v5, give Hughes the puck, and be physical where needed).

Cole have been playing bottom pairing defenceman in all his time in Colorado Minnesota Carolina he’s the 5th or 6th lowest average toi out of defenceman on those teams so dunno where u get the he’s been playing top 4 for a long time from with the exception of last year in Tampa where he’s in a 2nd pairing role coz Tampa don’t have cap space or depth. We make too much assumptions people will be perfect playing above their role. He’s great playing against the 3rd and 4th liners we don’t know if he can handle playing against top players on a consistent basis. It’s a gamble. 

[5nothincanucksohno]

3 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

Cole have been playing bottom pairing defenceman in all his time in Colorado Minnesota Carolina he’s the 5th or 6th lowest average toi out of defenceman on those teams so dunno where u get the he’s been playing top 4 for a long time from with the exception of last year in Tampa where he’s in a 2nd pairing role coz Tampa don’t have cap space or depth. We make too much assumptions people will be perfect playing above their role. He’s great playing against the 3rd and 4th liners we don’t know if he can handle playing against top players on a consistent basis. It’s a gamble. 

Over the past eight seasons he has played above 17 mins per game in seven seasons. With a number of seasons at or above 18/19 mins per game. Col and Min was the same season. He has played 3/4 D mins over his career and done well against solid competition. No reason he can't slot in beside Hronek and play a solid steady game.

[wildcam]

6 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Not sure where Irwin will slot in, I see him as a Burroughs replacement. He did play bottom pairing minutes but 61 games with Washington last year, but is 35 and a year older. I think he's just some insurance in case Rathbone or Hirose aren't good enough, or a useful option if we want to play more physically, or of course if we get injuries to our LDs. Personally I would have just kept Burroughs but it looks like Allvin wants some tough veteran defencemen and Irwin has been around the block, so I like the transformation so far. I do worry a bit about pairing Irwin and Myers together - two old, slow guys might be trouble, whereas a slick Rathbone or ideally Hirose could really cover up a lot of mistakes and Myers' long reach could help close down gaps left by the kids. Honestly even Wolanin deserves a mention, last training camp he was our best player and he was the AHL's best defenceman, I think he deserves a look-in too. Nice to have insurance in Irwin though.

 

As for minutes, Soucy averaged 16 minutes last year. Cole averaged just over 19 minutes. Hronek was around 20 or so. Myers was around 20 for better or for worse. I do worry about how much we're going to strain Hughes, as bad as OEL was, he logged some big minutes, but hopefully our new UFAs can pick up that slack. The main thing is the PK and PP to be honest - Hughes has no need to play on the PK anymore. I know he'd probably want to, and if we're up to 6 penalties against maybe he'll get a turn, but we just signed a bunch of the best defensive PKers in the game in Cole, Soucy and even Irwin. On the right, Myers is probably our top PKer and Hronek second just to share the minutes around. Different defencemen for different moments in the game for sure, hopefully that'll get Quinn's minutes down, and in the end he may end up playing big minutes but they'll be easy PP minutes. Just as importantly, we could form a shutdown pairing of Soucy - Hronek to take top opposition away from Hughes and let him feast on 2nd and 3rd lines.

 

If we can keep Hughes around 22-23 minutes, he should be fresh for the playoffs. The last 2 years he's averaged over 25 minutes (25:40 last year!). We need to focus on getting that number down, and if it is high, at least it's easier minutes and not heavy defending/PK minutes. The same can almost be said a bit for Hronek, he'll end up on our 2nd unit PP and 2nd unit PK so will end up logging pretty big but versatile minutes. 

 

I trust Foote and Gonchar will know what to do with our new acquisitions but we have a nice blend now of physical, tough guys (Soucy, Cole, Myers to an extent, maybe Irwin) and puck-movers (Hughes, Hronek, maybe Hirose/Rathbone).

I don't Irwin will be #6 or #7. -- Wolanin LD - Juulsen RD  -Briesbois LD - Johanssen RD-- Hirose LD - McWard RD - Woo RD

Rathbone LD might be moved if he isn't a regular - He has to clear waivers

[250Integra]

25 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

Cole have been playing bottom pairing defenceman in all his time in Colorado Minnesota Carolina he’s the 5th or 6th lowest average toi out of defenceman on those teams so dunno where u get the he’s been playing top 4 for a long time from with the exception of last year in Tampa where he’s in a 2nd pairing role coz Tampa don’t have cap space or depth. We make too much assumptions people will be perfect playing above their role. He’s great playing against the 3rd and 4th liners we don’t know if he can handle playing against top players on a consistent basis. It’s a gamble. 

You’re just making assumptions without any facts. Have you followed his career closely? I reckon he’s been a top 4 defenceman on most teams he has played on. His career average TOI is above 17 minutes. He averaged over 19 minutes per game with Tampa last season, and previous to that 17 minutes with Carolina. That’s 2nd pairing minutes.