Elias Pettersson | #40 | C

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

14 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Because we're in absolutely no rush like at all man.

 

Sure skill wise he's ready now.  But physically and environmentally I'd say he's not ready until 2019/2020

...enviromentally.....are we going Green for Greener....?

 

....just watch....

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

Elias has just as much chance (probably more really) of getting injured in the AHL as he does in the NHL....that concern is just not based in reallity....

 

if freaking Yamamoto can survive so can Pettersson.

 

....get him and Gaudette on the team and let the Cups come rolling in for years to come....

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

We went through this with Bo....everybody thinking he is not ready....then with Brock....and now with Elias and Adam.....

 

Again why people think he should spend this year tearing up the SHL and then go to an inferior league in the AHL because he will be "safer"....seriously?.....

[Odd.]

7 hours ago, dank.sinatra said:

Have you seen him play? Swift decision making won't be a problem for him. He'll make the right play 9/10 times with 5 guys rapidly approaching him. The smaller ice surface shouldn't even affect his style of play since he is already so far ahead in his anticipation. Him and Boeser are the only prospects we've had since god knows when (the sedins?) who are skilled enough to jump straight into the top-six without learning "the grind". Personally, I see the AHL grind has something that could hurt is development. If he learns the AHL game of dump, chase, battle, shoot, and crash the net as the "correct-way" to play it could stifle his offensive creativity.

As much as it sounds counter-productive, he needs to learn the grind of the AHL. Half a season there wouldn't hurt. I think you're hellbent on the fact that he may or not produce in the AHL and as precaution you want him to play in the NHL because skillz.

 

And I think you're severely underestimating the talent level in the AHL. Yes many teams have their fair share of goons but as you said if Pettersson has good decision making and really good at losing defenders and creating offense, he should have no problem producing when there's goons and "plugs" in the AHL which, again, is a horrible assessment of the league. 

 

It's not like Trent Cull is going to shove Pettersson in a 4th line role and expect him to do the things he's not really supposed to do but dumping and chasing, especially if you're a fast player like Virtanen, is a really useful method of getting it deep, beating your defenders in a race and then start creating plays which a guy Pettersson is really good at doing. You see perennial players like Crosby, MacKinnon, and for the sake of discussion I'll list some smaller players ex Marner, Gaudreau, Marchand, Pastrnak, hell you see this with Baertschi etc. Very small guys and yet they do this a lot when they want to start something.

 

Dumping and chase, battling, shoot, crashing the net, the "correct way" as you said, holds a lot of truth. You NEED to be able to do all of those things to become a mainstay NHL'er. 

[JM_]

50 minutes ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said:

We went through this with Bo....everybody thinking he is not ready....then with Brock....and now with Elias and Adam.....

 

Again why people think he should spend this year tearing up the SHL and then go to an inferior league in the AHL because he will be "safer"....seriously?.....

by what measure is the AHL inferior to the SHL? just curious on that one. 

 

EP would not be hurt at all by learning to play on smaller ice in the AHL. The biggest difference is Utica a place without the giant magnifying glass that our market is that will allow EP to make some inevitable mistakes and not blow his confidence. That would be a huge waste of a kid with this potential if we rushed him and screwed up his confidence. It doesn't necessarily have to be for an entire year, just until he shows he's capable away from the puck which is what every other guy on the NHL bench had to do at some point. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Jimmy McGill

[TGT68]

And learn to play center, learn to take faceoffs, learn canucks systems, build relationships with other prospects, get better at English, adjust to different ice, different rules, different food and different expectations.  

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

1 hour ago, Odd. said:

As much as it sounds counter-productive, he needs to learn the grind of the AHL. Half a season there wouldn't hurt. I think you're hellbent on the fact that he may or not produce in the AHL and as precaution you want him to play in the NHL because skillz.

 

And I think you're severely underestimating the talent level in the AHL. Yes many teams have their fair share of goons but as you said if Pettersson has good decision making and really good at losing defenders and creating offense, he should have no problem producing when there's goons and "plugs" in the AHL which, again, is a horrible assessment of the league. 

 

It's not like Trent Cull is going to shove Pettersson in a 4th line role and expect him to do the things he's not really supposed to do but dumping and chasing, especially if you're a fast player like Virtanen, is a really useful method of getting it deep, beating your defenders in a race and then start creating plays which a guy Pettersson is really good at doing. You see perennial players like Crosby, MacKinnon, and for the sake of discussion I'll list some smaller players ex Marner, Gaudreau, Marchand, Pastrnak, hell you see this with Baertschi etc. Very small guys and yet they do this a lot when they want to start something.

 

Dumping and chase, battling, shoot, crashing the net, the "correct way" as you said, holds a lot of truth. You NEED to be able to do all of those things to become a mainstay NHL'er. 

Tell that to Gretzky....et all....

 

...No way EP plays in the AHL...same as Brock and same as Bo (save for the injury/conditioning stint Bo had to do)....

 

...just watch....

[Odd.]

3 minutes ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said:

Tell that to Gretzky....et all....

 

...No way EP plays in the AHL...same as Brock and same as Bo (save for the injury/conditioning stint Bo had to do)....

 

...just watch....

If he has a real good camp and pre-season, then yeah, obviously. 

[HomeBrew]

3 hours ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said:

We went through this with Bo....everybody thinking he is not ready....then with Brock....and now with Elias and Adam.....

 

Again why people think he should spend this year tearing up the SHL and then go to an inferior league in the AHL because he will be "safer"....seriously?.....

In perspective, I like that most people are not trying to rush our prospects like previous years. I think it is much worse when everyone thinks that a high pick should be on the team immediately or else he's a bust. If he's ready, he's ready, but let's not throw him into the fire if he's not. I think this especially depends on whether they are planning on grooming him as a center - which I think they are because we heard "playmaking center" endlessly at the draft. If that is the case, then he should get some experience playing the position in a pro league before he makes the jump in my opinion. It's much easier to transition to the NHL as a winger, ala Nylander, but I doubt we want that, we need a center.

Edited November 5, 2017 by HomeBrew

[Warhippy]

4 hours ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said:

...enviromentally.....are we going Green for Greener....?

 

....just watch....

The environment in the SHL is not the same as the North American leagues and ice surfaces.  The league is littered, hell is buried in prospects and players who lit it up in the Euro leagues and minor leagues but could never translate it to the bigs.

 

Allowing him a full year to play against the best in the SHL again or a full year + in the AHL to acclimate to a harder and far more intense playing schedule would be nothing but beneficial.  We're in technical year 3 of a rebuild (really around year 4)  and we still have 2 years left before we've stockpiled the depth of prospects and cap space on the big club we need to start being playoff threats again.

 

If we have a mediocre or bad draft this season we'll be hanging the next decade or more on Lind, Gadjovich, Juolevi and Petterson/Boeser as our only real prospects that can be almost assured to be NHL players of any sort.

 

Markstrom and Nilsson as well as the play of our kids are actually blowing the early predictions of the canucks being a bottom 5 team out of the water in their first month of play and we could capably be a middle of the pack team.

 

My accounts for our timeline had us picking top 10 this and next year and competing for 2020-2021 after 2 more decent drafts in which we've accumulated extra picks for selling of expiring contracts or older vets.

 

Petterson is not needed now.  He is really not needed next year.  While we are exceeding expectations introducing him to early does little to nothing to help the club in the short term except sell a few tickets.

 

For the club and the long term success of it, ensuring Petterson/Juolevi and our upcoming prospects are properly developed is FAR more important than worrying about why a "potential 60 point player" is not in our line up yet

 

**Edit**

 

This isn't to say if he comes in to camp and wows everyone he doesn't deserve a spot on the team.  This is simply saying that there's a large amount of prospects that come over from Europe who do not have great first years in the NHL and when you factor in his size and the far more aggressive Pacific division over the SHL and the added schedule you risk stunting his development or possibly seeing him injured early on due to his not being used to a smaller size rink or far more aggressive playing styles

Edited November 5, 2017 by Warhippy

[PlanB]

4 hours ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said:

Elias has just as much chance (probably more really) of getting injured in the AHL as he does in the NHL....that concern is just not based in reallity....

 

if freaking Yamamoto can survive so can Pettersson.

 

Not the best example as Yamamoto's probably about to be sent back to Jr before his 9th gm.   In 8 gm's so far he's been virtually invisible. 

 

EP is showing he can use his skill to exploit men with far more experience - what we don't know is if he can do the same to grown men with skills as good as his own in the NHL?  Some of these men have equal his skill, close to double his strength and playing weight,  and decades of combined experience on this kid.......patience.....patience.  JB's master plan has allowed the franchise to afford patience. 

[Derp...]

Personally when I watch Pettersson play the only things he needs to do to transition to North American hockey are move the puck quicker or move his feet more, and get stronger in board battles. 

The Pittsburgh game is a perfect example of how Baertschi has become a good NHL player, after being a bit small and needing strength. He uses his body and core strength to protect the puck and move it quickly. He never holds the puck for too long, and always knows what he is trying to do with it. This allows him to avoid the big hits, and be effective along the boards despite being at a physical disadvantage is board battles. He didn't have that ability at the start of his career.

In the same way Pettersson has the hockey sense that will allow him to move the puck quickly, but in order to get the puck he needs speed, core strength, and then the elusive skating ability we see Brock use to create time and space for him self.

Boeser is one of the best players we have had in a long time that can go from North South to East West effectively because people have to respect his ability to shoot from anywhere. The way he loads up, and freezes D men before cutting to the middle is so dynamic and unpredictable. Ideally Pettersson would learn how to do that as well. 

[RetroCanuck]

23 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

The environment in the SHL is not the same as the North American leagues and ice surfaces.  The league is littered, hell is buried in prospects and players who lit it up in the Euro leagues and minor leagues but could never translate it to the bigs.

 

Allowing him a full year to play against the best in the SHL again or a full year + in the AHL to acclimate to a harder and far more intense playing schedule would be nothing but beneficial.  We're in technical year 3 of a rebuild (really around year 4)  and we still have 2 years left before we've stockpiled the depth of prospects and cap space on the big club we need to start being playoff threats again.

 

If we have a mediocre or bad draft this season we'll be hanging the next decade or more on Lind, Gadjovich, Juolevi and Petterson/Boeser as our only real prospects that can be almost assured to be NHL players of any sort.

 

Markstrom and Nilsson as well as the play of our kids are actually blowing the early predictions of the canucks being a bottom 5 team out of the water in their first month of play and we could capably be a middle of the pack team.

 

My accounts for our timeline had us picking top 10 this and next year and competing for 2020-2021 after 2 more decent drafts in which we've accumulated extra picks for selling of expiring contracts or older vets.

 

Petterson is not needed now.  He is really not needed next year.  While we are exceeding expectations introducing him to early does little to nothing to help the club in the short term except sell a few tickets.

 

For the club and the long term success of it, ensuring Petterson/Juolevi and our upcoming prospects are properly developed is FAR more important than worrying about why a "potential 60 point player" is not in our line up yet

Totally agree, I hope we sell a lot of our players at this coming deadline so that we have at least one more year at the top of the draft. Many think tanking doesn't benefit but coming in bottom five of the league can give you the equivalent of two first rounders if you draft well in the early 2nd round. Benning has shown he's able to get really good players in those spots. Although I love the way we've been playing it doesn't help us in the future and many pieces we have can be replaced by guys in Utica or overseas. What Id like to see at this deadline is the trading of Edler or Del Zotto, preference of Edler but if he refuses to wave then trade Del Zotto. Replace them with either Wiercoch, a piece coming back in trade, or a guy like McEneny. Trade Vanek, replace with Goldobin, Boucher or Rodin. Trade Gudbranson for what you can get, hell Biega is playing better then him. Trade are worst starting goalie and replace with Bachman who's proven to be a good backup. Id also send Virtanen down to Utica now considering he's not playing big minutes, then when you make trades bring him back up.

 

Baer-Bo-Boeser

Goldy-Granlund-Eriksson

Sedins-Virtanen

Gaunce-Sutter-Dorsett

Gagner, Burmistrov

 

Del Zotto/Edler-Tanev

Hutton-Stetcher

Pouliot-Biega

Wiercoch-McEneny

 

Markstrom/Nilsson

Bachman

 

Will still be a fun high skilled team to watch but it will lose some games just due to inexperience. We get a high draft pick, the rebuild continues, we have a better team in the future.

 

Oh and resign the god of drafting  

[Fanuck]

8 minutes ago, PlanB said:

JB's master plan has allowed the franchise to afford patience. 

This should be pinned to every prospect thread. 

[joe-max]

15 hours ago, clam linguine said:

No sarcasm. Can you name a couple forwards who spent two years in the minors after their draft year and are as good as you hope EP turns out? Maybe there are some. Who do you suggest.

Just to name a few:

- Luc Robitaille, drafted 1984, didn't play in the NHL before the 1986/1987 season (scoring 84 points in 79 games)

- Teemu Selänne, drafted in 1988, didn't play in the NHL before the 1992/1993 season after spending 4 years in Finland (scoring 76 goals and 132 points)

- Peter Forsberg (here you have him), drafted in 1991, didn't play in the NHL before the 1994/1995 season after playing three more years in Sweden (partially in juniors)

- Brett Hull, drafted 1984, played in the NHL for the first time in the 1986/1987 season, but only in 5 games.

- Jamie Benn, drafted 2007, played in the NHL for the first time in 2009/2010

- Ryan Getzlaf, drafted in 2003, didn't play in the NHL before the 2005/2006 season

- Pavel Datsyuk, drafted in 1998, played first for Detroit in 2001/2002 (scoring only 35 points)

- Henrik Zetterberg, drafted in 1999, didn't play in the NHL before the 2002/2003 season

 

The company is decent enough for my taste.

Edited November 5, 2017 by joe-max

[HomeBrew]

13 minutes ago, RetroCanuck said:

Totally agree, I hope we sell a lot of our players at this coming deadline so that we have at least one more year at the top of the draft. Many think tanking doesn't benefit but coming in bottom five of the league can give you the equivalent of two first rounders if you draft well in the early 2nd round. Benning has shown he's able to get really good players in those spots. Although I love the way we've been playing it doesn't help us in the future and many pieces we have can be replaced by guys in Utica or overseas. What Id like to see at this deadline is the trading of Edler or Del Zotto, preference of Edler but if he refuses to wave then trade Del Zotto. Replace them with either Wiercoch, a piece coming back in trade, or a guy like McEneny. Trade Vanek, replace with Goldobin, Boucher or Rodin. Trade Gudbranson for what you can get, hell Biega is playing better then him. Trade are worst starting goalie and replace with Bachman who's proven to be a good backup. Id also send Virtanen down to Utica now considering he's not playing big minutes, then when you make trades bring him back up.

 

Baer-Bo-Boeser

Goldy-Granlund-Eriksson

Sedins-Virtanen

Gaunce-Sutter-Dorsett

Gagner, Burmistrov

 

Del Zotto/Edler-Tanev

Hutton-Stetcher

Pouliot-Biega

Wiercoch-McEneny

 

Markstrom/Nilsson

Bachman

 

Will still be a fun high skilled team to watch but it will lose some games just due to inexperience. We get a high draft pick, the rebuild continues, we have a better team in the future.

 

Oh and resign the god of drafting  

Thankfully you are not in charge - your proposal sounds atrocious. You would trade away two of our top 4 d-men in a proposed "tank" to get higher picks? If we need anything right now in terms of a rebuild it is defensemen - we don't have enough in our prospect pool at the moment and getting rid of two guys on our roster will just amplify that fact. If the draft forced us to learn anything last year, you don't need to tank to get a good player with the lottery and depth of some of these drafts. It is also surprising to see the hate on Gudbranson. You are a rare person hating on him these days - which begs the question if you have even been watching the games? 

 

However, given that this is the Elias Pettersson thread and your post has nothing to do with Pettersson, I would suggest taking this to the proposals area of CDC. GM JB's plan is to keep adding and stockpiling talent without burning it down or selling for the immediate. If you want to re-sign the guy, then why are you proposing an entirely different game plan than his? Or, did you actually mean "resign", as in fire?

 

Pettersson will slot in just fine and the next few drafts we will see the same with our top end guys. Hopefully, we will add another high skill defensemen or center in the next draft to continue our progression. People have in the past given GM JB a lot of grief for his 1st round picks, but I think we will all be surprised when these guys reach their maturity. 

[canuckpuckluck1]

24 minutes ago, RetroCanuck said:

Totally agree, I hope we sell a lot of our players at this coming deadline so that we have at least one more year at the top of the draft. Many think tanking doesn't benefit but coming in bottom five of the league can give you the equivalent of two first rounders if you draft well in the early 2nd round. Benning has shown he's able to get really good players in those spots. Although I love the way we've been playing it doesn't help us in the future and many pieces we have can be replaced by guys in Utica or overseas. What Id like to see at this deadline is the trading of Edler or Del Zotto, preference of Edler but if he refuses to wave then trade Del Zotto. Replace them with either Wiercoch, a piece coming back in trade, or a guy like McEneny. Trade Vanek, replace with Goldobin, Boucher or Rodin. Trade Gudbranson for what you can get, hell Biega is playing better then him. Trade are worst starting goalie and replace with Bachman who's proven to be a good backup. Id also send Virtanen down to Utica now considering he's not playing big minutes, then when you make trades bring him back up.

 

Baer-Bo-Boeser

Goldy-Granlund-Eriksson

Sedins-Virtanen

Gaunce-Sutter-Dorsett

Gagner, Burmistrov

 

Del Zotto/Edler-Tanev

Hutton-Stetcher

Pouliot-Biega

Wiercoch-McEneny

 

Markstrom/Nilsson

Bachman

 

Will still be a fun high skilled team to watch but it will lose some games just due to inexperience. We get a high draft pick, the rebuild continues, we have a better team in the future.

 

Oh and resign the god of drafting  

Are we watching the same games???? Gudbranson is so solid at the back end. He is monstering the opposition forwards. Without his wieght the Canucks could possibly be pushed around and find themselves struggling this year. He is playing a totally different game than Biega. In saying that I personally have been delighted with Biegas game its so full of energy, but to not have Gudbranson back there would be a horrible mistake for the Canucks

[Where'd Luongo?]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Allowing him a full year to play against the best in the SHL again or a full year + in the AHL to acclimate to a harder and far more intense playing schedule would be nothing but beneficial.  We're in technical year 3 of a rebuild (really around year 4)  and we still have 2 years left before we've stockpiled the depth of prospects and cap space on the big club we need to start being playoff threats again.

It would be nothing but a waste of time for the Canucks and Pettersson. The guy is proving himself now, he doesn't need to play meaningless games in Utica when he can come to the Canucks next year and perform on the big squad. This guy is legit.

[J-23]

54 minutes ago, RetroCanuck said:

Totally agree, I hope we sell a lot of our players at this coming deadline so that we have at least one more year at the top of the draft. Many think tanking doesn't benefit but coming in bottom five of the league can give you the equivalent of two first rounders if you draft well in the early 2nd round. Benning has shown he's able to get really good players in those spots. Although I love the way we've been playing it doesn't help us in the future and many pieces we have can be replaced by guys in Utica or overseas. What Id like to see at this deadline is the trading of Edler or Del Zotto, preference of Edler but if he refuses to wave then trade Del Zotto. Replace them with either Wiercoch, a piece coming back in trade, or a guy like McEneny. Trade Vanek, replace with Goldobin, Boucher or Rodin. Trade Gudbranson for what you can get, hell Biega is playing better then him. Trade are worst starting goalie and replace with Bachman who's proven to be a good backup. Id also send Virtanen down to Utica now considering he's not playing big minutes, then when you make trades bring him back up.

 

Baer-Bo-Boeser

Goldy-Granlund-Eriksson

Sedins-Virtanen

Gaunce-Sutter-Dorsett

Gagner, Burmistrov

 

Del Zotto/Edler-Tanev

Hutton-Stetcher

Pouliot-Biega

Wiercoch-McEneny

 

Markstrom/Nilsson

Bachman

 

Will still be a fun high skilled team to watch but it will lose some games just due to inexperience. We get a high draft pick, the rebuild continues, we have a better team in the future.

 

Oh and resign the god of drafting  

Do you even watch the games?

[Gaudette Celly]

5 hours ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said:

We went through this with Bo....everybody thinking he is not ready....then with Brock....and now with Elias and Adam.....

 

Again why people think he should spend this year tearing up the SHL and then go to an inferior league in the AHL because he will be "safer"....seriously?.....

Seems that Virtanen and McCann have some folks terrified that the team has no idea how to properly develop prospects.  Unfortunately they are also myopic in believing that it's a cookie-cutter process, where every prospect needs to go to Utica before the NHL.  It's been shown to be false, and likely will again with Gaudette in just a few months.