SingleThorn Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 It's looking like SG is the official target of the basement bully boy brigade on CDC for next season, so I'm a tad surprised that this tweet ( taken from the 'trades/ rumours thread ) hasn't gotten the 4B crowd howling in unison. Okay it's from HockeyBuzz, but that's never stopped a good CDCer before ! 14 hours ago, Hutton Wink said: 3 or 4 years is fine, but 6 puts us into that trouble alright, not to mention the blocking of younger dmen coming in. Would definitely expedite the exits of Edler and/or Tanev, but who would you rather have long-term? Don't think Chicago would be willing to give up enough to make the deal doable. But would be happy to help them fill out their roster with veterans in a Gagner and MDZ, for a reasonable return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, SingleThorn said: It's looking like SG is the official target of the basement bully boy brigade on CDC for next season, so I'm a tad surprised that this tweet ( taken from the 'trades/ rumours thread ) hasn't gotten the 4B crowd howling in unison. Okay it's from HockeyBuzz, but that's never stopped a good CDCer before ! I must be one of those you are referring to. Did not like the signing but saw the reasoning. My issue with Gagner is that he is a perimeter player and his puck possession is challenging. Weighing what he delivers versus how his TOI could be better spent I would not be sorry to see him move on. That decision is also impacted by the number of vets who will likely be on the roster on opening night. Currently there are too many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleThorn Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 6 hours ago, Boudrias said: I must be one of those you are referring to. Did not like the signing but saw the reasoning. My issue with Gagner is that he is a perimeter player and his puck possession is challenging. Weighing what he delivers versus how his TOI could be better spent I would not be sorry to see him move on. That decision is also impacted by the number of vets who will likely be on the roster on opening night. Currently there are too many. Not referring to anyone specific. Also, SG would be first on my 'trade, please' list. It is the overly negative and often harsh piling on that happens once a player becomes the official 'whipping boy du jour' that irks me. Players like Megna signed to be AHL/ depth players who end up playing 100% over their heads should be appreciated as an AHL player not as a 1st line plug. etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 JB doesn't want to lose face in having to move Gagner. So we'll probably be stuck with him the whole year. Eats up a spot for a young guy for another year. 10 goals for 3.2 million. blah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combover Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Hated it when he was signed, another easy to play against bottom 4 player that brings very little. Spends more time picking him self up off the ice than anything. Hawks want him two pucks not even a full bag and they can have him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 1 hour ago, SingleThorn said: Not referring to anyone specific. Also, SG would first on my 'trade, please' list. It is the overly negative and often harsh piling on that happens once a player becomes the official 'whipping boy du jour' that irks me. Players like Megna signed to be AHL/ depth players who end up playing 100% over their heads should be appreciated as an AHL player not as a 1st line plug. etc. etc. No way should my comments about Gagner be taken as negative to his accomplishments. Any player who makes the AHL and NHL should be recognized as superior hockey players. Obviously Gagner had a great season with Columbus the year before he came to Van. My take on the situation is all about development and the TOI required to bring prospects along. As a fan I have the latitude to make relatively uninformed judgments. Benning has to be far more pragmatic as he goes through a multi year rebuild. IMHO Van has to many vets so I identified Gagner as the player to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Hairy Kneel said: JB doesn't want to lose face in having to move Gagner. So we'll probably be stuck with him the whole year. Eats up a spot for a young guy for another year. 10 goals for 3.2 million. blah No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken. Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Why did I think Sam was in like his early-mid 30's... ? pleasantly surprised seeing this as he should still be young enough to whip it into high gear since he'll be getting pushed by the young guns.. his skill is no question it's just the compete level he needs to keep up. gotta love internal competition ! Regardless, happy late birthday SG 89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I know he is a popular whipping boy on CDC but of interest, I think that most know Gagner was drafted 6th overall but I am not sure many know he is is currently 8th overall in points in terms of his draft cohort. Players many would be surprised to know he is ahead of in points to date include Turris, Backlund,Van Riemsdyk, Shattenkirk and Subban and he is just behind (a few points) of Pacioretty, Perron and Couture. He sure hasn't caught the support of many on CDC yet. I know that like all veterans, Benning will likely cut him loose if a younger player outplays him but I also think he could surprise a few this year if he returns to even his average year as that would be a decent contribution from a guy who can move up and down the lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlastPast Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I think part of the issue with Sam was that he was used in a more prominent role than maybe he should have been. He played 13 mins/night at ES which puts him in the #6 forward range for ES TOI . I think if he a bit less responsibility he would have been more successful possibly. He also had a 96.9 PDO and a 5.1 5v5 Sh% which is pretty low. If they were closer to average he likely would have had a few more points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Gagner is a solid bottom 6er that can bring 30-35 points. I agree to being hard on him, but with the way the team is being built. Defensively and tough bottom 6 opening things up for the top 6 to be youthful and offensively charged. Gagner doesn't really fit the model that Benning is trying to build here. At least in my opinion. Not a bad thing having him with a defensively responsible center/wingers on the 4th line though. Let him man the 2nd unit PP. He'll get 30ish points. I think the idea most of us are believing is that he is blocking the youth from making the team. So we are unreasonably hard on him. He was never a defensive liability from what I seen. He wasn't shutdown or anything but he wasn't getting torched while on the ice. I wouldn't mind seeing him getting closer to 60% ozone starts with 12-13 minutes of ice time. Opposed to the 50% ozone starts with 15 minutes a game he got last year. Controversial idea, but maybe him and Pettersson could feed off each other pretty nicely. They can both get favorable zone starts, they are both hybrid center/wingers, different handed players so they can take more favorable faceoffs, Gagner is good offensively. Virtanen Pettersson Gagner might be a pretty good all around line. Gagner and Virtanen had solid chemistry last preseason. Although I kinda wonder if Green wants to keep Jake's zone deployments being more 50/50. Whereas Pettersson and Gagner should be getting closer to 60% ozone starts. This is one of the more interesting preseasons/seasons coming up in my time. Lots of questions and lots of options of what can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 3 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: I know he is a popular whipping boy on CDC but of interest, I think that most know Gagner was drafted 6th overall but I am not sure many know he is is currently 8th overall in points in terms of his draft cohort. Players many would be surprised to know he is ahead of in points to date include Turris, Backlund,Van Riemsdyk, Shattenkirk and Subban and he is just behind (a few points) of Pacioretty, Perron and Couture. I have to ask, what value does Gagner career point totals have to do with what he brings to the team today? Does it some how make him more valuable to our roster? Does is mean he's worth more than Subban, Shattenkirk and Turris? Obviously the answer is no, so again I ask, what is this purpose of this statement? People aren't whipping on him for what he's accomplished from 07-2017, they are whipping on him for the lack of value he brings to our team in 2018. Did you know that he has more career points than Sutter who was also drafted in 07? You want to know another stat sam leads his draft year in........his terrible -109. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saved_by_Jesus Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 3 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: I have to ask, what value does Gagner career point totals have to do with what he brings to the team today? Does it some how make him more valuable to our roster? Does is mean he's worth more than Subban, Shattenkirk and Turris? Obviously the answer is no, so again I ask, what is this purpose of this statement? People aren't whipping on him for what he's accomplished from 07-2017, they are whipping on him for the lack of value he brings to our team in 2018. Did you know that he has more career points than Sutter who was also drafted in 07? You want to know another stat sam leads his draft year in........his terrible -109. He said that the stat might be "of interest". I found it interesting, and surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 3 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: I have to ask, what value does Gagner career point totals have to do with what he brings to the team today? Does it some how make him more valuable to our roster? Does is mean he's worth more than Subban, Shattenkirk and Turris? Obviously the answer is no, so again I ask, what is this purpose of this statement? People aren't whipping on him for what he's accomplished from 07-2017, they are whipping on him for the lack of value he brings to our team in 2018. Did you know that he has more career points than Sutter who was also drafted in 07? You want to know another stat sam leads his draft year in........his terrible -109. Reason for that -109... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 9 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: I have to ask, what value does Gagner career point totals have to do with what he brings to the team today? Does it some how make him more valuable to our roster? Does is mean he's worth more than Subban, Shattenkirk and Turris? Obviously the answer is no, so again I ask, what is this purpose of this statement? People aren't whipping on him for what he's accomplished from 07-2017, they are whipping on him for the lack of value he brings to our team in 2018. Did you know that he has more career points than Sutter who was also drafted in 07? You want to know another stat sam leads his draft year in........his terrible -109. IMHO is value is relative to the development timeline. TOI for young players and prospects is paramount. The vets have to compliment that process. For example if it is Gagner or Erickson that is moved I move Gagner. Ericksson can move up and down the lineup and can play special teams at both ends of the ice. Fundamentally I suggest Gagner is weak on the puck and this hurts especially in ozone entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Boudrias said: IMHO is value is relative to the development timeline. TOI for young players and prospects is paramount. The vets have to compliment that process. For example if it is Gagner or Erickson that is moved I move Gagner. Ericksson can move up and down the lineup and can play special teams at both ends of the ice. Fundamentally I suggest Gagner is weak on the puck and this hurts especially in ozone entry. Eriksson is at least passable defensively, can’t say the same about Gagner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 11 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: I have to ask, what value does Gagner career point totals have to do with what he brings to the team today? Does it some how make him more valuable to our roster? Does is mean he's worth more than Subban, Shattenkirk and Turris? Obviously the answer is no, so again I ask, what is this purpose of this statement? People aren't whipping on him for what he's accomplished from 07-2017, they are whipping on him for the lack of value he brings to our team in 2018. Did you know that he has more career points than Sutter who was also drafted in 07? You want to know another stat sam leads his draft year in........his terrible -109. No more value than any other player's career totals. Point is, dude is still under 30 and has never played on a good team in his career. I don't view him as a long term solution for the Vancouver Canucks but as a bridge player to allow the youth to develop, I don't see why he gets all the hate. Guy is a legit NHL player who has seemingly harmed some people's sense of being to the degree he gets massive amounts of hate (name manipulation etc.) on CDC. Just seems to outweigh reality. Yes I did know that about Sutter. He also has more than Luongo or Price too. Point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: No more value than any other player's career totals. Point is, dude is still under 30 and has never played on a good team in his career. I don't view him as a long term solution for the Vancouver Canucks but as a bridge player to allow the youth to develop, I don't see why he gets all the hate. Guy is a legit NHL player who has seemingly harmed some people's sense of being to the degree he gets massive amounts of hate (name manipulation etc.) on CDC. Just seems to outweigh reality. Yes I did know that about Sutter. He also has more than Luongo or Price too. Point? not to nitpick, but the 2016-17 blue jackets compiled 108 points. that would constitute a good team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleThorn Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, tas said: not to nitpick, but the 2016-17 blue jackets compiled 108 points. that would constitute a good team. Yes, 108 points is probably top 8ish ( the way I define a 'top' team ). Coincidentally, that was SG's best year, statistically speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Gagner doesn't just get hate by Canucks fans, he gets hate from all hockey fans for years now. The reason for that is that he is largely the same player he has always been, a one dimensional scorer who has little to no impact away from the puck. He is also poor at the FO dot and has always been so. The guy came into the league as a talented scorer and he has never added another dimension to his game despite being in the league for over a decade. It's the same reason why Dwight Howard in basketball gets as much hate as he does. Relied on his natural abilities and never learned or added anything to his game. People look at their careers and they just see the wasted talent rather than whatever accomplishments these players have achieved. Blame for Gagner's poor development should also be placed on the team that drafted him. Being a part of that dysfunctional group did him no favours but he has been out of that organization long enough that there has to be some personal accountability as well. Justin Schultz was in a similar situation but he managed to turn the narrative around his career when he went to a competently run team. Maybe this was what Gagner was always going to be but it's hard for me to accept that considering the electric sort of talent he was in his days in London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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