Nuck1991 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 12 hours ago, Honeydew said: Petey and Bo leading us To the promise land Never have I Been so confident in our team Our rebuild is nearly complete. We just need a righty dman That righty that can blast The puck into The Net. erik karlsson we need to go after him if becomes ufa. We have to re sign Eagle for atleast 2 more years, until juolevi is a regular. our defense would be like Edler Ek hughes Tanev Hutton Guddy Juolevi Pouliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 1 hour ago, MJDDawg said: Deck the Halls with bows of holly...Troll lol lol lol lol lo lol lol lol. Best post of the thread ... and most accurate too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 8 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said: My belief is that depth is key in the NHL. I became even more convinced of this last year when Vegas blitzed the NHL and made an unexpected run to the cup. The NHL isn’t necessarily about who has the best players. It’s about who has the best players at the best long term cap hits in the most important positions. Case in point: Crosby and Ovechkin have been the two best players in the NHL for 10+ years and yet Chicago and LA were the kinpins of the NHL from 2010-2015. Why? Because cap hits are key.......when you have great long term cap hits, you can have the budget to have depth on other lines. Chicago and LA only started to go south once Kane, Toews, and Kopitar received contracts north of 10 million. In many ways, I think Nathan Mackinnon, Victor Hedman, and Mark Schiefele are the most valuable players in the NHL right now (I would include Matthews here, but he will receive a huge contract after this year). So - a season it relates to the topic at hand: My answer is as follows: It really depends on what Pettersson’s cap hit will be after his ELC expires. Right now, I would easily rather have our guys. In the future however, if Pettersson gets over 10 million, perhaps I would lean more towards McDavid, but we still don’t know as to how good Pettersson will be. What we’re seeing from Pettersson right now might only be tip of the iceberg stuff. :D This is a good point. I think the key to building a Canucks team that can sustain success over long stretches of time will be depend on how much money we give to Boeser and EP. If Boeser comes at around 7.5 or less and EP around 9 or less, we should be good for years to come. Toronto will need to hand Matthews at least 11 (Tavares money) and Marner is worth at least 8 at this point. It will be interesting to see how Toronto handles their cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hindustan Smyl Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 26 minutes ago, khay said: This is a good point. I think the key to building a Canucks team that can sustain success over long stretches of time will be depend on how much money we give to Boeser and EP. If Boeser comes at around 7.5 or less and EP around 9 or less, we should be good for years to come. Toronto will need to hand Matthews at least 11 (Tavares money) and Marner is worth at least 8 at this point. It will be interesting to see how Toronto handles their cap. My guess is that Kadri will be traded for a pick, while the Leafs will also try and package Marleau with a 1st for cap relief. That’s the only way I see things working for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 13 hours ago, drummerboy said: Again, that’s stupid. Who is going to pick the one player? Would you rather have Teows and Kane, or Crosby? But what about Malkin? Its dumb. Obviously anyone one would rather have an elite player in EP combo with a great two way player in Bo. McDavid is super overrated. He is great, but there are a hundred two player combos out there I’d rather have. this is dumb. Think of it in these terms: McDavid: $12.5M Horvat: $5.5M Pettersson: $925 + $2.85M(max bonus) = $3.775M It's a no brainer this year. We're getting bang for our buck. When Petey comes off his ELC who knows what he'll get paid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks Curse Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Look at teams like CHI, LA, PIT and now buffalo, all needed multiple 1st OA or top 3 picks to get on track imo we need 3 things: a true no 1 d man one more top 3F onr of our goalies to pan out then we are a SC contender in 3-4 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpt Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 14 hours ago, WeneedLumme said: This question is a little like asking who got the better end of the Lindros trade. Two solid key components is way better than one. I’d disagree. If all things were the same age wise and I had a choice between Bo and Petey or Crosby? I’d take Crosby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucksfollower1983 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 2 hours ago, khay said: This is a good point. I think the key to building a Canucks team that can sustain success over long stretches of time will be depend on how much money we give to Boeser and EP. If Boeser comes at around 7.5 or less and EP around 9 or less, we should be good for years to come. Toronto will need to hand Matthews at least 11 (Tavares money) and Marner is worth at least 8 at this point. It will be interesting to see how Toronto handles their cap. Remember when Bobby Holik got 9 mil per season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bell Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 2 hours ago, khay said: This is a good point. I think the key to building a Canucks team that can sustain success over long stretches of time will be depend on how much money we give to Boeser and EP. If Boeser comes at around 7.5 or less and EP around 9 or less, we should be good for years to come. Toronto will need to hand Matthews at least 11 (Tavares money) and Marner is worth at least 8 at this point. It will be interesting to see how Toronto handles their cap. I hope the canucks management group dont fk around Brock and Pettersson like they did Bure. They are two special players, hopefully we treat them as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 16 hours ago, Honeydew said: Petey and Bo leading us To the promise land Never have I Been so confident in our team Our rebuild is nearly complete. We just need a righty dman That righty that can blast The puck into The Net. Combined with declining teams that is just enough to make the playoffs. Is just making the playoffs the goal? The team should have 3 scoring lines and added size for playoff success. This season and next season for high draft picks and THEN polishing the team for playoff success. I will not let the team diminish what should be Canuck fan expectations, merely making the playoffs might happen without any more improvement if three teams go into the expected decline. Look at teams that have had playoff success over the last 10 years. And look at TO's model right now in their 5th year of rebuild. Not counting imaginary players that haven't played any NHL games, this means fantasy expectations of prospects not here, players we can see in a Canuck uniform today. Mathews >= Pettersson Taveras > Boeser/???? - no one in system Nylander >< ???/Boeser - no others in system Kadri <> Horvat - possible Gaudette but not enough offence shown Marner - ??? - definitely no one in system Kapenen - ??? - Jake or maybe McEwen? Rielly - ???? no one on the team now. - maybe Hughes Gardiner > Edler? - no one in system - not OJ 4 years and two major surgeries, maybe Tryamkin Andersen > Markstrom = maybe Demko and DiPietro ( one for trade bait for a top winger) Love em or hate em TO is close to a cup run with players ON THE TEAM. The team needs 2 more top ten picks on offence and some heavy lifting with some trades, trades that will be lopsided not necessarily in the Canucks favour in quantity vs quality, 3 for 1 type of deals. With two of the top 3 center spots already tied up for 10 years and no clear prospective top 2 offensive centers yet playing and needing another top 6 winger, two more drafts or/and big trades are necessary. TO rebuilt their team within 4 years from 2014, this is the Canucks year one, so 3 more is about right, 2020/2021 should see the end of the rebuild. Stanley Cup, not merely the playoffs and out, one and done. Last playoff run was full of optimism but one player ran the team off the ice, that should show that making the playoffs is not enough. The last three playoff runs this team has a whopping 3 wins and 12 losses. This fan base has lost the "well they got lucky and drafted Mathews", this team got lucky and got Pettersson when other GM's let him go by their draft positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cory40 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 14 hours ago, Toews said: You cannot survive in this league without depth down the middle. This is a no brainer, definitely a no. The more interesting conversation is Horvat + Boeser for McDavid. I think I would strongly consider doing that. It would potentially give us two top 5 centers in their prime for the next decade or so. The Canucks are looking pretty good in the middle! Would you give Boeser who is a solid ppg player when healthy, Might even be 1.2 ish. And Horvat is close to 1 ppg player. McDavid is good but struggles to put up top best player in the world points. So far Matthews looks better in that regards. But I am betting Elias with weight on and a little more stable base will be the closest to 2 ppg since the Gretzky era! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cory40 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 15 hours ago, ruilin96 said: You win Stanley Cups with Pettersson and Horvat as your 1 and 2 punch down the middle. Pettersson and Horvat has the potential to be one of the best 1 and 2 punch in the league when they are both in their prime. IMO, it is the best we have ever had, even better than Henrik + Kesler. McDavid will no doubt be the best player/center in the league, but if there isn't a strong 2nd line center to support, the team will go nowhere. Leon-can't-score-without-Connor-Draisaitl is not your most ideal support. The 2nd line center has to be one that be able to produce on his own with his set of linemates and not just riding shot-gun as a winger on the #1's wing. Very good post needs more recognition! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10pavelbure96 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 16 hours ago, Honeydew said: Petey and Bo leading us To the promise land Never have I Been so confident in our team Our rebuild is nearly complete. We just need a righty dman That righty that can blast The puck into The Net. We had him (Tryamkin) Hopefully he comes back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 20 hours ago, drummerboy said: Again, that’s stupid. Who is going to pick the one player? Would you rather have Teows and Kane, or Crosby? But what about Malkin? Its dumb. Obviously anyone one would rather have an elite player in EP combo with a great two way player in Bo. McDavid is super overrated. He is great, but there are a hundred two player combos out there I’d rather have. this is dumb. You can show yourself out over there ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 10 hours ago, Nucksfollower1983 said: Remember when Bobby Holik got 9 mil per season? GMMG OUTGMMING GMs as an agent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 13 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: Combined with declining teams that is just enough to make the playoffs. Is just making the playoffs the goal? The team should have 3 scoring lines and added size for playoff success. This season and next season for high draft picks and THEN polishing the team for playoff success. I will not let the team diminish what should be Canuck fan expectations, merely making the playoffs might happen without any more improvement if three teams go into the expected decline. Look at teams that have had playoff success over the last 10 years. And look at TO's model right now in their 5th year of rebuild. Not counting imaginary players that haven't played any NHL games, this means fantasy expectations of prospects not here, players we can see in a Canuck uniform today. Mathews >= Pettersson Taveras > Boeser/???? - no one in system Nylander >< ???/Boeser - no others in system Kadri <> Horvat - possible Gaudette but not enough offence shown Marner - ??? - definitely no one in system Kapenen - ??? - Jake or maybe McEwen? Rielly - ???? no one on the team now. - maybe Hughes Gardiner > Edler? - no one in system - not OJ 4 years and two major surgeries, maybe Tryamkin Andersen > Markstrom = maybe Demko and DiPietro ( one for trade bait for a top winger) Love em or hate em TO is close to a cup run with players ON THE TEAM. The team needs 2 more top ten picks on offence and some heavy lifting with some trades, trades that will be lopsided not necessarily in the Canucks favour in quantity vs quality, 3 for 1 type of deals. With two of the top 3 center spots already tied up for 10 years and no clear prospective top 2 offensive centers yet playing and needing another top 6 winger, two more drafts or/and big trades are necessary. TO rebuilt their team within 4 years from 2014, this is the Canucks year one, so 3 more is about right, 2020/2021 should see the end of the rebuild. Stanley Cup, not merely the playoffs and out, one and done. Last playoff run was full of optimism but one player ran the team off the ice, that should show that making the playoffs is not enough. The last three playoff runs this team has a whopping 3 wins and 12 losses. This fan base has lost the "well they got lucky and drafted Mathews", this team got lucky and got Pettersson when other GM's let him go by their draft positions. 5th year of rebuild? While I don't think anyone denies that TO is at least 2 years ahead of us, I still find it funny that people can say a team that has been drifting in obscurity, suddenly only has been rebuilding for 5 years... you may make a case if you say 5 years of rebuilding after the previous rebuilds failed. Alternatively, does this mean, If Canucks got rid of most of our players and held on to only Horvat, BB and EP our rebuild would have started 16 month ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 19 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: Combined with declining teams that is just enough to make the playoffs. Is just making the playoffs the goal? The team should have 3 scoring lines and added size for playoff success. This season and next season for high draft picks and THEN polishing the team for playoff success. I will not let the team diminish what should be Canuck fan expectations, merely making the playoffs might happen without any more improvement if three teams go into the expected decline. Look at teams that have had playoff success over the last 10 years. And look at TO's model right now in their 5th year of rebuild. Not counting imaginary players that haven't played any NHL games, this means fantasy expectations of prospects not here, players we can see in a Canuck uniform today. Mathews >= Pettersson Taveras > Boeser/???? - no one in system Nylander >< ???/Boeser - no others in system Kadri <> Horvat - possible Gaudette but not enough offence shown Marner - ??? - definitely no one in system Kapenen - ??? - Jake or maybe McEwen? Rielly - ???? no one on the team now. - maybe Hughes Gardiner > Edler? - no one in system - not OJ 4 years and two major surgeries, maybe Tryamkin Andersen > Markstrom = maybe Demko and DiPietro ( one for trade bait for a top winger) Love em or hate em TO is close to a cup run with players ON THE TEAM. The team needs 2 more top ten picks on offence and some heavy lifting with some trades, trades that will be lopsided not necessarily in the Canucks favour in quantity vs quality, 3 for 1 type of deals. With two of the top 3 center spots already tied up for 10 years and no clear prospective top 2 offensive centers yet playing and needing another top 6 winger, two more drafts or/and big trades are necessary. TO rebuilt their team within 4 years from 2014, this is the Canucks year one, so 3 more is about right, 2020/2021 should see the end of the rebuild. Stanley Cup, not merely the playoffs and out, one and done. Last playoff run was full of optimism but one player ran the team off the ice, that should show that making the playoffs is not enough. The last three playoff runs this team has a whopping 3 wins and 12 losses. This fan base has lost the "well they got lucky and drafted Mathews", this team got lucky and got Pettersson when other GM's let him go by their draft positions. You started but you’ve left out Hyman and Johnsson, two other drafted players playing meaningful minutes. Not sure if that fits into what your getting at given what year they were picked up...the biggest difference between the two teams is when TO started their rebuild is a point of debate. Some can say when Burke started his five year plan which would put them in Oiler territory for length of rebuild. I like to think they started when the Gilmour team dissolved...just because it’s funnier and the Sundin teams never did much either (although they did like to play spoiler to OTT who actually had a very good team) and since then we’ve had two teams that were considered contenders (ok I’m been gracious with the WCE team, only two years media talked about them as a team that could win a cup, the Sedin was a contending team). To me what this post shows is that we need more high end players to compete as a contender. That’s more than obvious if you take WNP and TB and compare rosters too. Hopefully we can come in like WNP has the last two years after a few more solid drafts. Have to admit TOs two best moves were winning the draft and Mathews, and signing Tavares though. Their team would look a lot different with Puljajarvi (4th was their highest odds that year, just like what happened to COL) and no Tavares if he stayed in NYI. Still not bad, but not doing so good either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 9 minutes ago, IBatch said: You started but you’ve left out Hyman and Johnsson, two other drafted players playing meaningful minutes. Not sure if that fits into what your getting at given what year they were picked up...the biggest difference between the two teams is when TO started their rebuild is a point of debate. Some can say when Burke started his five year plan which would put them in Oiler territory for length of rebuild. I like to think they started when the Gilmour team dissolved...just because it’s funnier and the Sundin teams never did much either (although they did like to play spoiler to OTT who actually had a very good team) and since then we’ve had two teams that were considered contenders (ok I’m been gracious with the WCE team, only two years media talked about them as a team that could win a cup, the Sedin was a contending team). To me what this post shows is that we need more high end players to compete as a contender. That’s more than obvious if you take WNP and TB and compare rosters too. Hopefully we can come in like WNP has the last two years after a few more solid drafts. Have to admit TOs two best moves were winning the draft and Mathews, and signing Tavares though. Their team would look a lot different with Puljajarvi (4th was their highest odds that year, just like what happened to COL) and no Tavares if he stayed in NYI. Still not bad, but not doing so good either. The way the Leafs play defensively, the Most important player on the Leafs might be their goalie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 6 hours ago, spook007 said: 5th year of rebuild? While I don't think anyone denies that TO is at least 2 years ahead of us, I still find it funny that people can say a team that has been drifting in obscurity, suddenly only has been rebuilding for 5 years... you may make a case if you say 5 years of rebuilding after the previous rebuilds failed. Alternatively, does this mean, If Canucks got rid of most of our players and held on to only Horvat, BB and EP our rebuild would have started 16 month ago? Ha ha good post, see you’ve already covered it before I made my above reply. TO got lucky the year they tanked, odds were best they’d pick fourth (as I mentioned), Puljajarvi was a coveted prize and I doubt they would have passed on him the same way CLB did to pick PLD. WNPs rise to ascension is a more realistic achievement, and they did a great job of their picks too with some luck being the cherry on top which is Laine. I’d rather we do that then TO, as once you take Mathews and Tavares out of the picture and replace Puljajarvi and nobody they don’t look close to done. WNP has being trying to build a contender since they started in ATL, the same way as NSH has too, both teams took about the same amount of time following two very different paths. And both teams have players from previous cores that are needed to balance vets and youth out too, same with TB (Stamkos, Kucherov, Point three different ages but all in various stages of their prime). Byfuglien and Wheeler. TO bought theirs in Tavares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 On 12/25/2018 at 3:34 AM, Hindustan Smyl said: I would have chosen Toews and Kane over Crosby before Kane and Toews got their new 10 million+ contracts. Curious thing when Crosby got his deal percentage wise to overall cap it was just as expensive as McDavids...jump forward some years and they won two more cups (with Malkins being just as rich) and Kane’s contracts are expensive no doubt...but not as much as they once were yet they seem to be done. As as long as the cap keeps going up which there is no indication it won’t keep doing, they’ve even proven to be recession proof (2008-9 global and especially in the US financial crisis didn’t slow them down one bit) signing stars to these contracts doesn’t necessarily mean it closes windows, unless Crosby-Malkin was a one off as it’s yet to be done again (CHI or LA would have to win another cup, which looks ridiculously low odds at this point). Maybe it does push things forward a few years and make it hard to compete during that period (and PIT did have their struggles before winning two in a row) but one can argue they still can win later on with five or six guys eating up a lot of cap once they reach their their contracts. The worse thing that could happen is teams no longer getting star performers on team friendly contracts for their best years (second contracts), like Tavares, Stamkos etc, not superstars like Crosby, Ovechkin and McDavid, those guys should and will always be paid top dollar on their second contracts, but guys like Marner, Boeser (Pettersson yet to be determined, see if he’s healthy and how he does as a sophomore first), Nylander etc. now making 7-9 seems scary, not sure how it lines up with Tavares 5 million dollar contract when he signed it. Taking the bridge is usually the best way to go as a player if they are that good, see Price and Subban...which also becomes a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.