Reasons for Canuck Slide

[canucklehead44]

37 minutes ago, timberz21 said:

Bottom line is, our weakness has and always will be our defense.  This hasn't changed.  Yes the addition of Hughes, Myers and Benn has improve, but it is still a below average defense.  Hughes and Myers increased our offensive production from the backend, but hasn't really improve our defensive side.  Benn has been a solid bottom pairing acquisition, but the facts remains, he's just a bottom pairing.   This slight improvement, helped us score more goals and give a little less, but overall we don't have a contending D core yet.

 

Hughes will gain more and more confidence and improve but he'll never be a Doughty, Weber, Carlson or Keith.  He could be a Karlsson or Burns, great offensive skill with limited shutdown abilities.

 

Edler and Tanev are kind of holding the fort right now, but they are trending downhill.  If they start unravelling faster than expected, this defense core will be in trouble in the next few year, unless Juolevi can turn it around and become the player we expected him to be.   Still we will need more than just him.  We have a lot of potential 4-5 guys in the pipeline, but not really a solid or guaranteed top 2-3 defenseman.  I wish Benning could pull a defenseman version of JT Miller via trade.  But that will require to give up another 1st rounder.

 

On a positive note, I think this D-core is much better equip to handle the 2nd half of the season, where we kind of unravelled every past few years.  If the Canucks can keep their head above water until the end of January, I think this team will play better in February and March than we have in the past.  Hopefully, that will be the difference for a potential playoff spot.  Despite, my comments above, I do believe the Canucks can make the playoffs with this team.  We hit a rough patch, but I expect them to get rolling sometime soon and get a streak going on.

I see what you are saying but the defense should be much improved. Benn and Hutton are more or less a wash but when you look at it as Hughes + Myers vs Pouliot + Gudbranson that is a very sizeable upgrade in terms of quality both offensively and defensively. 

[RowdyCanuck]

Why are the Canucks losing hmmmm. 

Their missing a straw to stir the drink.( Jim did try to get acouple domi and E Kane) 

lack a pack mentality and I think if they got a guy like reeves or Anderson in that would change...(if you listen to kes and juice then you would have heard burr mentioned that he liked how he could stir the pot and have juice to back him up, we don't have that guy. 

They are missing a nhl level coach. The Canucks have lost games thx to it early on, the way he throws his lines in the blender is starting to tick me off...I'll leave that there...

most people know I'm not Brock's biggest fan but his play isn't tailor to play a dump and chase game, Brock lacks the speed to do that, just like how petey lacks the size to play that way...so something has to change and it's easier and I think better if they switch coaches. 

The D need a better system hell the whole team does so I'll leave that there. 

Goalies have been a bright spot ha what ever you do Canucks don't fire the goalie coach too!!! 

Thats pretty much it.....

[Maginator]

Benning is not the problem.

 

99% of posters were smiling like butchers dogs this offseason. Our roster looked competitive for the first time in a long time.

 

I truly believe the system our team plays doesnt work. We are so bloody skilled, but the skill isn't being utilized properly. We are a square peg roster being forced into a round hole system.

 

I think an indicator of this seasons expectation was the conditional first in Miller trade. It indicated a clear possibility of the Canucks being in the 2020 draft lottery. So, the expectation is that if we miss the playoffs this year, Benning is still safe. Next year we 100% need to make the playoffs though or he is on the hot seat.

 

HOWEVER, this year the on ice product has been extremely lackluster. PP aside, we do not control anything. We are never driving a game. Puck possession and shots are always lead by the opposition. When we do score even strength - it comes in clusters against a team or goalie having an off night.

 

Keep Benning. Can Green. Hire new coach. Implement a new system. Win games.

[timberz21]

2 minutes ago, Maginator said:

Benning is not the problem.

 

99% of posters were smiling like butchers dogs this offseason. Our roster looked competitive for the first time in a long time.

 

I truly believe the system our team plays doesnt work. We are so bloody skilled, but the skill isn't being utilized properly. We are a square peg roster being forced into a round hole system.

 

I think an indicator of this seasons expectation was the conditional first in Miller trade. It indicated a clear possibility of the Canucks being in the 2020 draft lottery. So, the expectation is that if we miss the playoffs this year, Benning is still safe. Next year we 100% need to make the playoffs though or he is on the hot seat.

 

HOWEVER, this year the on ice product has been extremely lackluster. PP aside, we do not control anything. We are never driving a game. Puck possession and shots are always lead by the opposition. When we do score even strength - it comes in clusters against a team or goalie having an off night.

 

Keep Benning. Can Green. Hire new coach. Implement a new system. Win games.

Can't argue with that.

 

Green is a rookie coach, still coaching like it's the 90s or 2000s.

[Gurn]

2 minutes ago, timberz21 said:

Green is a rookie coach,

Nope, not a rookie.

[Provost]

Hard not to put this on Benning.  Trades are hard to make, but he did put us in this position with a ton of dead money that could be used on actual players, and it is on him to mitigate that.

It is entirely unforgiveable that Eriksson hasn't been demoted yet.  You can have conspiracy theories about secret gentlemen's agreements of him retiring after the season all you want... but they need to test his willingness to ride the busses for the next three years and see if he pulls the plug and retires.

He provides nothing on the ice, less than a call up option of MacEwan, or Rafferty who could be brought up and carry 8D like we normally have.

The opportunity of having several million dollars in cap space right now where we could actually take on some short term money has never been greater.  There are a ton of trades that could be made if we could take on more money than we ship out, basically every team with actual dollars to spend is at the cap and the entire trade market is paralyzed because of it.  We could also just be banking cap space so we don't have to push Petterson and Hughes' performance bonuses into next season which could destroy us.

The players have to be better, but we have Baertschi and Eriksson's millions of cap space doing nothing for us.

[timberz21]

10 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said:

I see what you are saying but the defense should be much improved. Benn and Hutton are more or less a wash but when you look at it as Hughes + Myers vs Pouliot + Gudbranson that is a very sizeable upgrade in terms of quality both offensively and defensively. 

I think their offensive/puckmoving abilities make they defensive shortcoming less obvious, especially for Myers.  From a purely defensive standpoint, I'm not sure Myers is that much an upgrade over Gudbranson.  But when considering puckmoving and offense, yes, it is a big upgrade.

 

I have to agree that they are a big improvement, but at the same time, it's like improving your 2/3 lines when you don't really have a true 1st line, you don't get all the bang for your buck IMO.  I think Myers is playing more than he should, if we had a dominant 1 pair, then Myers would be a perfect 2nd pairing guy.  Now we have 4 guys sharing duties, we don't really have that pillar who we count on day in day out.  They all have their off night once every other game (which is normal for these types of player, true 1st pairing don't have many off night).

[timberz21]

8 minutes ago, gurn said:

Nope, not a rookie.

well this is first NHL gig, might not be his rookie season, but in my book he's a rookie NHLer.

[MikeyD]

I really don't understand the JB hate out of nowhere. We were all thrilled with his off season signings. This team is actually pretty decent on paper it's just that hardly anybody is playing up to their potential. 

 

And I believe that's on coaching. This team should be a possession team. We have a lot of great forecheckers, some good hitters, some guys with great hands and yet you never see the team play with possession. Quinn Hughes who is a possession fiend is even doing stupid things like dropping the puck back when there's 2 guys behind him with 2 of his own players ahead of him. That's a 3 on 2, bud. 

 

In games we win, our defense activates and pinches along the wall, in games we lose, we back off the line and allow entry into the zone. We're ALWAYS sending pucks in deep with absolutely nobody or low support to go retrieve them. We are literally giving the puck to the other team over and over and over in a game. Positionally for the most part we play well, but that's at the cost of actually putting in the effort to grind the puck back. 

 

And don't even get me started on formations in the offensive zone. We always seem to have plays where 3 of our forwards are all in the same corner cycling in the worlds smallest cycle zone, we set up on the powerplay with no pass in the middle of the ice, so our only two options are down low away from the net and up at the point. Why? We always give the puck back to the point and then we never have a guy in position in time for the screen. Brock Boeser is afraid to bring the puck close to the circle on the powerplay. He refuses to go backdoor. There's absolutely no movement on the powerplay to pull guys out of position. 

 

All of the fundamentals of hockey are being thrown out the window. Movement, adding shape to rushes, playing east-west, forcing the puck on the forecheck into clustered areas, etc. are all absent with this team. If I'm a coach I'm getting angry if I'm seeing this on a constant basis. It seriously looks as if they're intentionally told not to hit because it'll get you out of position and to always support along the walls just in case somebody is run out of options. The only coaching aspect that I've actually thought has been good this year is the back checking from the forwards. That's it. 

[Petey Castiglione]

Don't think Benning is the problem.  Not sure if you guys remember the prospect pool before him.  Jensen, Corrado, Grenier, Polasek, Freisen, McNally, Schroeder etc.  Not exactly guys who turned heads during "development".  Every year the depth and talent of the prospect pool ticks higher and we're only now starting to see that trickle onto the team.  This is how we're going to stay competitive once the core matures.

 

Yes the cap could be managed better but we're not the only team to have dead cap space. It's not a huge issue with the team in its current phase and most of it will be off the books when the core needs raises.  

 

I agree with @aGENT in that this is a young team.  The core players we're relying on to win games are all on the early side of their 20's and they need to learn how to win games consistently.  Boeser is in his 3rd year, Petey 2nd year and Hughes is a ROOKIE.  Horvat is the oldest core player and he's 24.

 

Cup winning teams the past decade.

Blues core - late 20's

Capitals core - late 20's early 30's

Penguins core - late 20's early 30's

Blackhawks core - late 20's early 30's

Kings core - mid/late 20's.

 

Do I hate losing? You know it.

Do I want to smash my tv everytime I see the drop pass or a dump in?  You're damn straight I do!

Does Baumer and Brown suck? You bet your ass!!

 

But for the first time in over a decade we have a young core to be excited about in their EARLY 20's.  As much as I Ioved the Sedins, they had a small window as contenders.

 

Losing sucks and we all hate it but this is part of the "process".  The kids need to learn how to win consistently.  They've already turned the outlook of this team around in what seems like a blink of an eye.  We have the pieces in place, it's not time to panic yet.

 

 

 

 

[mll]

1 minute ago, MikeyD said:

I really don't understand the JB hate out of nowhere. We were all thrilled with his off season signings. This team is actually pretty decent on paper it's just that hardly anybody is playing up to their potential. 

 

And I believe that's on coaching. This team should be a possession team. We have a lot of great forecheckers, some good hitters, some guys with great hands and yet you never see the team play with possession. Quinn Hughes who is a possession fiend is even doing stupid things like dropping the puck back when there's 2 guys behind him with 2 of his own players ahead of him. That's a 3 on 2, bud. 

 

In games we win, our defense activates and pinches along the wall, in games we lose, we back off the line and allow entry into the zone. We're ALWAYS sending pucks in deep with absolutely nobody or low support to go retrieve them. We are literally giving the puck to the other team over and over and over in a game. Positionally for the most part we play well, but that's at the cost of actually putting in the effort to grind the puck back. 

 

And don't even get me started on formations in the offensive zone. We always seem to have plays where 3 of our forwards are all in the same corner cycling in the worlds smallest cycle zone, we set up on the powerplay with no pass in the middle of the ice, so our only two options are down low away from the net and up at the point. Why? We always give the puck back to the point and then we never have a guy in position in time for the screen. Brock Boeser is afraid to bring the puck close to the circle on the powerplay. He refuses to go backdoor. There's absolutely no movement on the powerplay to pull guys out of position. 

 

All of the fundamentals of hockey are being thrown out the window. Movement, adding shape to rushes, playing east-west, forcing the puck on the forecheck into clustered areas, etc. are all absent with this team. If I'm a coach I'm getting angry if I'm seeing this on a constant basis. It seriously looks as if they're intentionally told not to hit because it'll get you out of position and to always support along the walls just in case somebody is run out of options. The only coaching aspect that I've actually thought has been good this year is the back checking from the forwards. That's it. 

 

Benning was again talking of getting the puck behind the D and going on the forecheck this week.  Benning and Green are in agreement on playing style.  

 

They've built the roster together. Even Aquilini was talking of moving forward under the guidance of Benning and Green.   Benning this summer:  "The way (coach) Travis (Green) wants to play, he wants to play fast and he wants to get pucks behind the other team’s defencemen and get in on the forecheck, recover pucks and get to the net."

[MikeyD]

1 minute ago, mll said:

 

Benning was again talking of getting the puck behind the D and going on the forecheck this week.  Benning and Green are in agreement on playing style.  

 

They've built the roster together. Even Aquilini was talking of moving forward under the guidance of Benning and Green.   Benning this summer:  "The way (coach) Travis (Green) wants to play, he wants to play fast and he wants to get pucks behind the other team’s defencemen and get in on the forecheck, recover pucks and get to the net."

And on paper that's what this team is designed to do. It's a strategy that works but we never get in on the forecheck to recover the pucks. We get it in behind, send one guy in (if we're lucky, and then the other 2 forwards change lines) and then they don't hit because he has no support behind him to make the hit and then before you know it the puck is being skated out into the neutral zone. 

 

We had a forecheck at the beginning of the season, it's absolutely gone now. If there was still a forecheck we wouldn't complain about losing games. 

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

We had a forecheck at the beginning of the season, it's absolutely gone now. If there was still a forecheck we wouldn't complain about losing games. 

And what has changed? It wasn't the coach or the 'systems' everyone seems keen to complain about.

 

IMO, it's a bunch of young, inexperienced, inconsistent kids we're expecting to lead the charge, who are squeezing sticks too tight, trying to do too much (especially as we've had injuries) and looking tired and disorganized and at times, defensively inept.

 

This really shouldn't be a terrible shock (even if it is unpleasant to watch... and likely even more so to actually play). Kids need to develop. They don't call them 'growing unicorns and rainbows', they're called growing pains.

 

 

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, timberz21 said:

well this is first NHL gig, might not be his rookie season, but in my book he's a rookie NHLer.

Why let facts get in the way?

[flickyoursedin]

The players saw an Alexis Lefreniere highlight reel so they’re mailing it in!

[189lb enforcers?]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

Pretty sure I saw Horvat give a Hab a pretty solid hit last night.

That one time...

like that one time in band camp? 

[aGENT]

Just now, 189lb enforcers? said:

That one time...

like that one time in band camp? 

Just like it.

[Nucker 67]

I was watching bits of the BOS/LA game last night. And when a BOS player made even one mistake, the comentators would point it out. There weren't many mistakes (even though LA won in OT) As much as I dislike that team, they play to win, winning is an expectation.

 

With Green, he talks about the ebb and flow of the season, some teams get hot, some teams struggle, it's all part of the season, blah blah blah... This, to me, is a defeatest attitude. Why doesn't he get upset with losses? I get that he's trying to be Mr. Cool NHL Coach, but where is the competitiveness?   Green seems to focus on the silver lining, the positives after a loss, when maybe he should be looking at what needs fixing.

[5Fivehole0]

6 hours ago, Pickly said:

Really? Cause other than Tyler Motte, I haven’t seen a Canuck player throw a hit for a few games now. Right now, I can’t tell the difference between a Travis Green coached team and a Willie D coached team. 

Didnt Boho throw a pretty massive check last game? Ferland had 7 one game I think.

Edited December 18, 2019 by 5Fivehole0

[Timbermen]

I think the systems don't work and the constant line juggling isn't helping either. Benning isn't the problem although he made some mistakes early in his tenure. The whacko schedule makers don't help, why did they have all those breaks in schedule early and then cram all the games in with 6/7 game road trips. Makes no sense, they played 15 games in a month with tons of travel , 15 !!! Thats ridiculous, the league does not want the Canucks to be a winning team for what ever reason, it's been that way for their entire history. From losing out on the draft lottery EVERY TIME to screwing them over in all three of their cup runs. Does it have something to do with Toronto not wanting them to have a franchise in the 70's?