[Trade] Kings trade Tyler Toffoli to Canucks for Tim Schaller, Tyler Madden, 2020 2nd-round pick, conditional 2022 4th-round pick

[GhostsOf1994]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Not really, it's quite possible he plays wing first like a lot of former centers  when they come in.  Miller is also a center, he's taken enough face offs even now.  The point is we have a limited supply of guys that may or may not make it and Madden was definitely one of them and our best center.   Sutter won't be going anywhere soon now - which fine.  Bet he's going to draft centers too so hopefully he hits on another gem, but it will be a few years behind the curve.   A lot of vets on the team won't be here in two years - if we can't replace them internally then the cost is higher. Cap management is key if we are going to be able to ice a balanced team - and ELCs plus second show me contracts definitely help with that.   Just look at TO and how they are trying to balance it - and next year it will be even worse for them.   We aren't that bad off, but we also already have issues - and it won't get easier.  Some have mentioned his size - like his Dad it's more about the fight in the dog then how big he is.  LA will be using him sooner then later - it won't take years to find out who won this trade.   For management I suppose us making the playoffs now is the point which I do get...Toffoli should give us a big boost and hopefully it's enough. 

Sidebet

 

Linus Karlsson will have more of an impact at the NHL level than Madden?

[rychicken]

7 minutes ago, Darius said:

the forward roster @Blömqvist posted above looks pretty good when everyone is healthy...

need to upgrade the defence now

[theo5789]

6 minutes ago, Darius said:

the forward roster @Blömqvist posted above looks pretty good when everyone is healthy...

On paper yes, but I could see many variations of the roster that could change things up if needed and still be effective.

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Not really, it's quite possible he plays wing first like a lot of former centers  when they come in.  Miller is also a center, he's taken enough face offs even now.  The point is we have a limited supply of guys that may or may not make it and Madden was definitely one of them and our best center.   Sutter won't be going anywhere soon now - which fine.  Bet he's going to draft centers too so hopefully he hits on another gem, but it will be a few years behind the curve.   A lot of vets on the team won't be here in two years - if we can't replace them internally then the cost is higher. Cap management is key if we are going to be able to ice a balanced team - and ELCs plus second show me contracts definitely help with that.   Just look at TO and how they are trying to balance it - and next year it will be even worse for them.   We aren't that bad off, but we also already have issues - and it won't get easier.  Some have mentioned his size - like his Dad it's more about the fight in the dog then how big he is.  LA will be using him sooner then later - it won't take years to find out who won this trade.   For management I suppose us making the playoffs now is the point which I do get...Toffoli should give us a big boost and hopefully it's enough. 

Who was he going to supplant on the wing?

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

Who else do they have that can defend? Vlasic? Burns? Karlsson?

They have enough, I believe. I think that it's probably 50/50 that they deal him versus keep him. Wilson and company are probably very aware that they have an aging roster and may need to face the reality of a rebuild.

 

You make a good point though about a player not having the same impetus and drive when traded away from their ideal situation.

[Alflives]

Just now, GhostsOf1994 said:

Sidebet

 

Linus Karlsson will have more of an impact at the NHL level than Madden?

On our team, and in a role available here, I agree.  

[JayDangles]

Just now, Alflives said:

Ferraro just mentioned that on 1040.  This tells me that our prospect pool is way better than what the other teams wanting Tofoli have. Kings wanted Madden.  And even giving him up, we still have lots of great prospects left.  The other teams didn’t even have a Madden level prospect to give up.  This further shows why We really need to keep Bracket.

Agree Alf, 

The benefit of having strong drafting and a large prospect pool is not solely so you can develop and have a bunch of ELC contracts.. it's also to have trade bait, desirable and disposable assets. 

Also, if that many teams were interested in Toffoli, and the trade deadline a week away, I would say JB was working in a high pressure situation. This is a very good trade for a high pressure situation. 

[R3aL]

8 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Motte - Beagle - Sutter  line can go up against any team's top line and have a pretty good chance of neutralizing the game and limiting chances (on both ends, in fact!). 

That's a good looking lineup where nobody is playing too far up.  We would just have to shelter the Roussel - Gaudette - Virtanen line when we're on the road.  They may be looking at limited minutes. 

If they have trouble on road you just swap sutter with roussel or virtanen whoever’s struggling most. Done!

[theo5789]

7 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

One thing that was mentioned about 50 pages ago, and is worth repeating. Toffoli was being targeted by Calgary and Edmonton at the deadline. This made it more important that we got him, which ups his value slightly more. I'm very happy we picked up Toffoli, given BB's injury, a need for more top 6 scoring, and a risk of our division rivals getting better instead of us... this is a strong move.

Something else that I don't see mentioned much so far is that Toffoli can PK as well. On LA's 2nd unit. Good to have another defensively responsible player that can score and he would add a dangerous element in being an offensive threat on the PK which Schaller and LE weren't.

[Nucker 67]

First thought - OMG, we look like the Kings, why did we trade our best C prospect? And if we lose the 1st, 2nd and 4th this year, yikes, going to be a boring draft.

 

But then after some time, Schaller is basically a throw-away. He was really just taking up space. Madden, although having a lot of success at Northeastern, is a small guy with some grit. Whether he can translate that to the NHL is another question. So, LA ends up with a small C prospect. I'm not worried. Losing the 2nd hurts though. I hope Toffoli can come to VAN, and start producing right way. Maybe he rediscovers this chemistry with Pearson? Maybe this gives Bo a kick in the pants? He's also got to re-sign with VAN, otherwise the Canucks gave up way too much.

 

I haven't heard much on the Boeser injury, is he going to out long-term? How serious is the injury?

[IBatch]

32 minutes ago, stawns said:

I think BB will be moved, but I think it's at the draft for a top 10-15 pick

This would explode the CDC like never before.   Maybe he's traded for a defenseman ... have to go to a team with weak R wingers and strong RHD.   Would be a waste to recycle him for a maybe at this point.  Plus no way we do this unless Toffoli re-signs. 

[guntrix]

11 hours ago, cuporbust said:

Or is not convinced ferland will ever bolster our top 6. Toffoli is an awesome pickup, and the more i have thought about this, Madden is an acceptable causality for him. We have enough depth to make this trade a win. 

I think winning or losing this deal will hinge on whether we can resign Toffoli. That package for half a season rental is too much no matter which way you spin it. If Jim manages to somehow sign him with some cap gymnastics, this’ll be a decent trade (assuming Tyler doesn’t pull a Louie). 

[Alflives]

Just now, NUCKER67 said:

First thought - OMG, we look like the Kings, why did we trade our best C prospect? And if we lose the 1st, 2nd and 4th this year, yikes, going to be a boring draft.

 

But then after some time, Schaller is basically a throw-away. He was really just taking up space. Madden, although having a lot of success at Northeastern, is a small guy with some grit. Whether he can translate that to the NHL is another question. So, LA ends up with a small C prospect. I'm not worried. Losing the 2nd hurts though. I hope Toffoli can come to VAN, and start producing right way. Maybe he rediscovers this chemistry with Pearson? Maybe this gives Bo a kick in the pants? He's also got to re-sign with VAN, otherwise the Canucks gave up way too much.

 

I haven't heard much on the Boeser injury, is he going to out long-term? How serious is the injury?

Fractured fib cartilage; re-evaluated in three weeks.  So out at least that long. 

[guntrix]

Double post.

Edited February 18, 2020 by guntrix

[Alflives]

Just now, guntrix said:

I think winning or losing this deal will hinge on whether we can resign Toffoli. That package for half a season rental is too much no matter which way you spin it. If Jim manages to somehow sign him with some cap gymnastics, this’ll be a decent trade (assuming Tyler doesn’t pull a Louie). 

Disagree.  The trade is a good one for us regardless of singing Tofu.  In fact I don’t think we are even considering signing Tofu.  He’s too old to fit with our young core going forward. 

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

This would explode the CDC like never before.   Maybe he's traded for a defenseman ... have to go to a team with weak R wingers and strong RHD.   Would be a waste to recycle him for a maybe at this point.  Plus no way we do this unless Toffoli re-signs. 

I agree completely, but that would also mean the trade would be for a high pick, not a roster player.

[JM_]

27 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Heard on 1040 this morning mostly (even they) liking the Tofoli deal.  One guy did point out that Madden and the second could have been used this summer to dump Loui, and clear cap room to sign Marky and Tanev.  I hadn’t thought about the sweetener value we lost by giving up Madden and a second.  There could be a domino effect here, that isn’t seen at first glance, but results in us losing one if two very important players this summer.  

I’ve moved my thinking to being okay with the trade, but can see why some are still worried about negative consequences.  

its a matter of first things first. Dumping Loui is secondary to making a playoff push. We have other prospect assets to dump if we really need to go that way. 

 

I'm not super concerned about the cap. right now its at 18 mil. Buying out Baer saves an additional 1.6. We've got a lot of potential for brining in ELCs. I the cap goes up even by a small amount it might be possible to keep the band together. 

[R3aL]

Anyone upset about this trade should look at the entire top 6 trading of Benning:

 

1st round pick

2nd Round pick

Gudbranson

Madden

Schaller

*conditional 4th rounder 2022 for toffoli if we resign him

 

for

 

JT Miller

Pearson

Toffoli

 

Overall looks to me like a big win.

 

When in the past have we actually had a full top 6 with forwards that deserve to be there?

[Lazurus]

3 minutes ago, BPA said:

5 minutes ago, milk and honey said:

Dumba and 2nd?

I suggested (jokingly) in an earlier post:

 

BB + Stetcher + Baer

for

Dumba + 2nd.

 

Lol.

A good deal could be Dumba, Greenway and their 1rst for some combination of BB, Stecher, Demko or Tanev. .. BB, Demko and Tanev would open up a fair amount of cap space.

 

This means that they will be going with Markstrom and Demko is possibly not the goalie of the future so he should be available.

 

24 hours after the trade it is not such a bad deal, in fact it is actually pretty good the issue I have is if this means the rebuild is dead. Not that he did much in that area but the team is still old and lacking young players.

[theo5789]

6 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

First thought - OMG, we look like the Kings, why did we trade our best C prospect? And if we lose the 1st, 2nd and 4th this year, yikes, going to be a boring draft.

 

But then after some time, Schaller is basically a throw-away. He was really just taking up space. Madden, although having a lot of success at Northeastern, is a small guy with some grit. Whether he can translate that to the NHL is another question. So, LA ends up with a small C prospect. I'm not worried. Losing the 2nd hurts though. I hope Toffoli can come to VAN, and start producing right way. Maybe he rediscovers this chemistry with Pearson? Maybe this gives Bo a kick in the pants? He's also got to re-sign with VAN, otherwise the Canucks gave up way too much.

 

I haven't heard much on the Boeser injury, is he going to out long-term? How serious is the injury?

I'd argue that Focht was very well in the running for that title.

 

Also I believe the potential 4th given up will be for the 2022 draft. Lots of time to possible recoup some picks before the upcoming draft if possible/needed.