ECQR: (8) Toronto Maple Leafs vs. (9) Columbus Blue Jackets | Blue Jackets win series 3-2

[rekker]

4 hours ago, iinatcc said:

I have a question if Kyle Dubas offered Matthews to Benning in exchange for Hughes + Eriksson should Benning do it?

I wouldn't. AM is a world class shinny player. That, and he is bolting to the Coyotes the second that contact is up. Which isn't that far off actually. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

4 minutes ago, rekker said:

Lots of good points and sounds like a good plan. No more Shanaplan, now it's  Nuxfanabroaddy Plan. 

It's frustrating Rekker. The avg poster on an everyday hockey site wouldn't F*** it up to their degree. With all their $$$$ all they had to do was weaponize cap space/economic clout! Just keep building gradually, & paying youth accordingly. Accumulate excess assets, & bundle together to flip(some).

 

I like to see Cdn teams do well. Ontario fans have sure paid the freight for this dishonest league. But after their overt tanking & signs of growth, their fanbase becomes irrationally cocky. After the Burke-fiasco, actually felt bad for them. Wouldn't last long, as they all seemed carried away with an upsurge.

 

They were 80% there FerGawdsakes! After that Wash series(when they played excellent) they simply got impatient! The Tavares signing was nouveau riche getting taken to the cleaners on bad property deals.

 

Then a billion dollar entity putting a dumb dork like Dubas in charge?! It's really hard to believe. & so the cycle goes. Perhaps in 12-16 mos we'll start feeling bad for them again?!

[flat land fish]

Leafs are in a tough situation all of the guys that would bring back a top pairing shutdown d are high priced.  Even if you pursued that direction I don’t think you would do well on a trade.  Others have raised the one guy that would garner a top flight d would be Matthews and you can’t even consider that.  Maybe if you could get one of the Norris finalists.  I’m sure most would agree Nylander is the likely trade piece but ask yourself this on a team that is going to be a cup contender is he the top dog.... certainly not he’s probably not your second best forward so at his cap hit are you getting a 1st pairing d or a second pairing d.  Good luck Kyle.

[WHL rocks]

4 hours ago, iinatcc said:

I have a question if Kyle Dubas offered Matthews to Benning in exchange for Hughes + Eriksson should Benning do it?

We are set at 1C with EP and 2C with Horvat. Wouldn't make sense for us giving up Hughes, a player we desperately need. 

 

A team that needs a 1C would give a kings ransom for Mathews tho. 

 

Crosby Malkin or Kuznetsov Backstrom.. a team that wants to win a Cup needs two top tier centers to be successful. 

 

Tavares Mathews doen the middle is a huge strength. Thats why Leafs won't trade Mathews. 

 

 

[rekker]

37 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

It's frustrating Rekker. The avg poster on an everyday hockey site wouldn't F*** it up to their degree. With all their $$$$ all they had to do was weaponize cap space/economic clout! Just keep building gradually, & paying youth accordingly. Accumulate excess assets, & bundle together to flip(some).

 

I like to see Cdn teams do well. Ontario fans have sure paid the freight for this dishonest league. But after their overt tanking & signs of growth, their fanbase becomes irrationally cocky. After the Burke-fiasco, actually felt bad for them. Wouldn't last long, as they all seemed carried away with an upsurge.

 

They were 80% there FerGawdsakes! After that Wash series(when they played excellent) they simply got impatient! The Tavares signing was nouveau riche getting taken to the cleaners on bad property deals.

 

Then a billion dollar entity putting a dumb dork like Dubas in charge?! It's really hard to believe. & so the cycle goes. Perhaps in 12-16 mos we'll start feeling bad for them again?!

The Dubas experiment will go down in history as a giant F-up.

[WHL rocks]

21 minutes ago, rekker said:

The Dubas experiment will go down in history as a giant F-up.

Can't blame it on Dubas.

 

Everything goes thru Shanahan and when Shanny and Dubas refused to pay Marner that rediculous salary ownership got involved told them to pay him..

 

Shanny chose Dubas as GM over Lou Lamorello because he wanted a yes man. Lou would have done things his way. He would have let Nylander sit the year instead of caving and never given Mathews that contract without getting atleast 1 UFA year added on to his contract. These guys ended up giving him huge salary with only 5 year term taking him right to UFA at the earliest time possible.  

 

Biggest mistake the Leafs organisation made was not making Lou the GM instead of Dubas. 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by WHL rocks

[oldnews]

Spamaplan will keep Dubas.  Leafs ownership will keep Shanahan. 

Both of them seem immune to learning from their mistakes.

So I'm not expecting the Leafs to do what needs to be done this offseason.

 

To add to their top-down cluster-puck, their coach seems to believe they just needed a little more luck.

 

Not sure if the coach was watching game 4, but I've never seen that much luck compacted into 4 minutes of hockey.

How many more empty net misses did the Leafs need to qualify as enough luck?

 

The Leafs were gifted a game 5 by merciful hockey gaudz - and they crapt the bed yet again.  

The real Leafs showed up for game 5 - and the result was relatively predictable.

 

Until they accept that they simply aren't and weren't as good a hockey team as Columbus - it'll be bizness as uzual in Toronto.   Cue the rearrangement of a few deck chairs.

 

A Jason Spezza shutdown unit - a blueline with next to no grit - and over 40 million spent on 4 shiny forwards - three of whom are best suited for beating up on inferior regular season opponents while the other is facing the other side of 30 with 5 years and 55 million remaining on his contract.

 

Built from the front back = a backasswards build.  A millenial build.

One I doubt Shanahan has the guts - or perspective - to truly address.  Which is why he probably has to lose his job if Toronto has any hope of righting that build.  If they don't, they are looking an awful lot like Coilers V2.0.

As I see it they have two options - deal Matthews or deal Marner - to try to get Reilly some legitimate help on the backend.  Again, I'm doubtful they have the fortitude in the front office to make that kind of move.

 

Then again, they'll probably win the lottery = the NHL throwing yet more good money after bad, yet again.

 

A lot of mockery of Benning on these boards when he signed guys like Beagle, acquired a plug like Motte, used the word foundational to describe a shutdown center like Sutter, or re-signed an aging whipping boy / rented mule Alex Edler - but ironically, any and every one of those players is precisely the kind of addition the millenial Leafs desperately needed.

 

 

 

 

[Nucker 67]

Marner 

 

He looked like a spoiled brat during his presser. Angry glare, why not score a goal son? Overpaid, non-playoff wannabe. Anyway, can't stand him. They asked him if not having fans in the stands made a difference and he says "no, I never even noticed". Not really a nod to Leafs fans eh?

 

Wonder if Leafs management wish they would've offered more for Tanev before? Their D sucks and their overpaid forwards can't score. 

 

Go Canucks!

[Maniwaki Canuck]

10 hours ago, Lancaster said:

Ummm... Canucks fans shouldn't be saying that.... 

Okay, now I'm laughing at you.  If you want to tip-toe on eggshells around the disaster that is Toronto, go right ahead, but it doesn't have any effect on us. 

[grumpyone]

[Nucker 67]

I never realized until they mentioned it, Leafs haven't won a playoff series  since 2004 against OTT (16 years and counting). Plus they haven't won a cup in 53 years and counting, back when players never wore helmets, there were no Europeans in the NHL and there were only a handful of teams. They just might be the worst NHL team in the modern day NHL. One could argue that Florida and Arizona are worse, but they haven't been around nearly as long. The Leafs should've figured it out by now. Sure, the Canucks haven't won the Cup either, but at least they've been to the show 3 times since 1970 and have had better payoff success. I don't believe the Leafs have even been to a SCF since 1967.

 

Marner is not a playoff guy. They need to trade him for a major upgrade(s) on D. Matthews was pretty good in this series, getting at least a hat trick and the game winner in OT to extend the series. 

[Maddogy]

It is so obvious that compared to the Leafs, Canucks' young core has had a lot more help from the veterans. Pearson, Miller, Beagle, Sutter, Myers, Tanev, Edler were there to support the young core especially when they were down 3-1 in game 4. You cannot expect a bunch a kids, under the pressure of a Canadian hockey market, to do it all themselves. They are not fully mature yet. 

[flat land fish]

Last night on Sportsnet they showed off this graphic that the leafs have not won a series since 2004.  It prompted a funny memory.  As a longtime leaf hater I was really rooting for the sens in that series and had a bit of an angry tirade when the leafs won the deciding game.  I was living in an apartment at the time and my girlfriend who is now my wife suggested we go grab an ice cream to which I agreed.  When we got back in some sort of sugar induced euphoria my wife decided she should show off her dance moves which involved kicking her feet high in the air.  She landed funny on one and said I think I broke my foot to which I was like no way you broke your foot and sure as sh*t she did.  The next day one of our neighbours saw her limping down the stairs and stopped her to make sure she wasn’t being abused after hearing a bunch of yelling the night before.  When they showed the highlights of the 2004 game we both were laughing at how long it’s been since the leafs won a playoff series.

[EP Phone Home]

Leaf tears are always a sweet treat to sip on after a first round bouncing. Cupless since 67 and no playoff series wins in 16 years just like Marner’s jersey #. 

 

[Mackcanuck]

Dubas is a young analytics guy

I am not against analytics, they do have a place

but, they are not the be all and end all to player value especially in the playoffs

Regular season hockey is so different than Playoff hockey(or playin hockey in this case) 

The are no analytic numbers for character, grit, will, toughness, etc.

These are all huge factors in playoff hockey.

This Dubas team has none

Lou Lamoriello >>>>>>>>>> Dubas

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Mackcanuck

[DefCon1]

Leafs taking baby steps in order to win the 1st round

[oldnews]

So - how's it looking over there at HF boards?

 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

1 minute ago, oldnews said:

So - how's it looking over there at HF boards?

Nice to see you back, oldnews.  

[UKNuck96]

2 hours ago, oldnews said:

Spamaplan will keep Dubas.  Leafs ownership will keep Shanahan. 

Both of them seem immune to learning from their mistakes.

So I'm not expecting the Leafs to do what needs to be done this offseason.

 

To add to their top-down cluster-puck, their coach seems to believe they just needed a little more luck.

 

Not sure if the coach was watching game 4, but I've never seen that much luck compacted into 4 minutes of hockey.

How many more empty net misses did the Leafs need to qualify as enough luck?

 

The Leafs were gifted a game 5 by merciful hockey gaudz - and they crapt the bed yet again.  

The real Leafs showed up for game 5 - and the result was relatively predictable.

 

Until they accept that they simply aren't and weren't as good a hockey team as Columbus - it'll be bizness as uzual in Toronto.   Cue the rearrangement of a few deck chairs.

 

A Jason Spezza shutdown unit - a blueline with next to no grit - and over 40 million spent on 4 shiny forwards - three of whom are best suited for beating up on inferior regular season opponents while the other is facing the other side of 30 with 5 years and 55 million remaining on his contract.

 

Built from the front back = a backasswards build.  A millenial build.

One I doubt Shanahan has the guts - or perspective - to truly address.  Which is why he probably has to lose his job if Toronto has any hope of righting that build.  If they don't, they are looking an awful lot like Coilers V2.0.

As I see it they have two options - deal Matthews or deal Marner - to try to get Reilly some legitimate help on the backend.  Again, I'm doubtful they have the fortitude in the front office to make that kind of move.

 

Then again, they'll probably win the lottery = the NHL throwing yet more good money after bad, yet again.

 

A lot of mockery of Benning on these boards when he signed guys like Beagle, acquired a plug like Motte, used the word foundational to describe a shutdown center like Sutter, or re-signed an aging whipping boy / rented mule Alex Edler - but ironically, any and every one of those players is precisely the kind of addition the millenial Leafs desperately needed.

 

 

 

 

You do realise that Crosby is in the millenial grouping and the younger leaf players are not actually Millenials but the generation after them 

[UKNuck96]

1 hour ago, Mackcanuck said:

Dubas is a young analytics guy

I am not against analytics, they do have a place

but, they are not the be all and end all to player value especially in the playoffs

Regular season hockey is so different than Playoff hockey(or playin hockey in this case) 

The are no analytic numbers for character, grit, will, toughness, etc.

These are all huge factors in playoff hockey.

This Dubas team has none

Lou Lamoriello >>>>>>>>>> Dubas

 

Actually most of those can be quantified through analytics. Most of the time it’s wrong decisions based on the data that is the issue not the data itself.

 

it can only tell what has happened it’s down to a human on how they interpret that and use it.