aGENT Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 3 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said: Mor maybe they are and that's Jake's problem.... Precisely my point Still, I don't currently see it as a 'problem' per se. He's 20, not 23. If he hasn't started to figure out how to reconcile those things in the next couple years, I'll worry then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Just now, J.R. said: Precisely my point Still, I don't currently see it as a 'problem' per se. He's 20, not 23. If he hasn't started to figure out how to reconcile those things in the next couple years, I'll worry then. Not many 20 y/o guys of any background have their head on straight. Being glib. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Westcoasting said: I just searched for it and found it in less than 2 minutes! But cannot or will not post the link. Hmmmm I see reddit rumours, CDC rumours, HF rumours and hockeynews blog picked up from Canuckway/Canuck army Nothing official, nothing concrete, nothing from Lebrun, Freidman, McKenzie, Portzline. Nothing credible I call Desiboy! Edited December 31, 2016 by Warhippy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 31 minutes ago, Warhippy said: But cannot or will not post the link. Hmmmm I see reddit rumours, CDC rumours, HF rumours and hockeynews blog picked up from Canuckway/Canuck army Nothing official, nothing concrete, nothing from Lebrun, Freidman, McKenzie, Portzline. Nothing credible I call Desiboy! I call troll! Maybe your mom can show you how to use google! How did you make it this far in life? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 20 minutes ago, Westcoasting said: I call troll! Maybe your mom can show you how to use google! How did you make it this far in life? Lol Believe it or not, some of us were actually around before Google. You know, before the new millenium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaGuy Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Apparently it was Lebrun on TSN Radio.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 1 minute ago, JoshuaGuy said: Apparently it was Lebrun on TSN Radio.. Thanks- imagine how much easier this would have been if those that made the assertion of media saying this, had actually linked to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) Lebrun did report that the Canucks inquired about Drouin. TBay asked for Horvat. Canucks declined. And it pretty much ended there. http://www.tsn.ca/radio/winnipeg-1290/lebrun-drouin-drama-percolated-before-boiling-over-with-trade-request-1.427299 http://thehockeywriters.com/pros-and-cons-of-bo-horvat-for-jonathan-drouin/ Not much of a story really. Drouin was in play at the time. I'm sure TBay got calls from several teams. And Benning wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't test the waters. But moving Horvat was a non-starter. So any trade talks likely didn't get past the very preliminary stages. This was nearly a year ago. EDIT: was making lunch for the kids and didn't see that @JoshuaGuy had posted the same tweet Edited December 31, 2016 by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 1 hour ago, JoshuaGuy said: Apparently it was Lebrun on TSN Radio.. Well see. That was easy. Soooo much could be avoided if people just do this simple thing. Back up their statements You sir are the real mvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatetomatoes Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 On 12/30/2016 at 7:30 PM, elvis15 said: But a lot of those players develop in the minors so less is expected of them at first. Power forwards are often physically developed enough to play in the NHL so they're more visible and some people expect them to be that NHL player they want them to be sooner. In Virtanen's case, he's definitely ready physically, and the stats show he's doing well in other areas of the ice other than the scoresheet, but it's the offensive game that's left to catch up (and maybe mental development as well). That's a good point. PF type guys are probably rushed into the NHL sooner than they should because they can contribute in a 3rd line role. Probably why people feel that they take longer to develop than small forwards. It's just that they watch them develop over years in the NHL vs coming into the NHL a little older and contributing right away. Same ages just one guy feels like he took longer because he's been in the limelight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluralsight Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I'm not a huge supporter of Jake, I actually had Nylander, Ehlers and Ritchie ahead of him at the time of the 2014 draft but a lot of these accusations of Jake being a bust or not living up to his potential are a bit premature. Sure, we should expect more from a 6th overall pick in his draft +3 year, but the truth is, power forwards do tend to develop at a slower pace than other types of players. Similar examples of this, would be Shane Doan and more recently Nino Niederreiter. Both players are of similar size, playing styles and draft positions. Doan, like Jake, struggled mightily in his Draft +3 year. Also, like Jake, he was sent down to the AHL that same year and went onto put up some solid numbers in the minors: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=17661 After a solid stint the AHL, he was back in the NHL the next season and only put up 22 points in 79 games. This was Doan's draft +4 year after getting drafted 7th overall. Bust? Well, history says otherwise. He would go onto to be a consistent 20-30 goal scorer in his draft +5 year. Niederreiter, also like Jake and Doan, struggled mightily in his draft +3 year, only putting up 1 goal in 55 games with the Isles while being -29. Also, like Jake and Doan, he was sent down to the AHL that season: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=123014 Niederreiter would go on to play the next 1.5 season in the AHL and contribute solid numbers (the lengthy AHL stint was due to the lockout). His case might be different to Doan's and Virtanen's due to the fact that he was traded. However, the patterns are still similar, as he put up 36 points in 81 games in his draft +5 year (similar to Doan). Niederreiter has had two straight 20 goal seasons and is on pace for a third straight. I can see Jake having a similar output as Niederreiter and it would be bonus if he can turn out like Doan. The point I'm making is that the Canucks have to accept with the hand they've been dealt when they drafted Virtanen and that power forwards do take time to develop. If the Canucks don't get production in a couple of seasons, when he is in his draft +5 year, then that's when I would start considering him as a bust. But at this point, I would say he is on par for the course. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonald Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, pluralsight said: I'm not a huge supporter of Jake, I actually had Nylander, Ehlers and Ritchie ahead of him at the time of the 2014 draft but a lot of these accusations of Jake being a bust or not living up to his potential are a bit premature. Sure, we should expect more from a 6th overall pick in his draft +3 year, but the truth is, power forwards do tend to develop at a slower pace than other types of players. Similar examples of this, would be Shane Doan and more recently Nino Niederreiter. Both players are of similar size, playing styles and draft positions. Doan, like Jake, struggled mightily in his Draft +3 year. Also, like Jake, he was sent down to the AHL that same year and went onto put up some solid numbers in the minors: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=17661 After a solid stint the AHL, he was back in the NHL the next season and only put up 22 points in 79 games. This was Doan's draft +4 year after getting drafted 7th overall. Bust? Well, history says otherwise. He would go onto to be a consistent 20-30 goal scorer in his draft +5 year. Niederreiter, also like Jake and Doan, struggled mightily in his draft +3 year, only putting up 1 goal in 55 games with the Isles while being -29. Also, like Jake and Doan, he was sent down to the AHL that season: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=123014 Niederreiter would go on to play the next 1.5 season in the AHL and contribute solid numbers (the lengthy AHL stint was due to the lockout). His case might be different to Doan's and Virtanen's due to the fact that he was traded. However, the patterns are still similar, as he put up 36 points in 81 games in his draft +5 year (similar to Doan). Niederreiter has had two straight 20 goal seasons and is on pace for a third straight. I can see Jake having a similar output as Niederreiter and it would be bonus if he can turn out like Doan. The point I'm making is that the Canucks have to accept with the hand they've been dealt when they drafted Virtanen and that power forwards do take time to develop. If the Canucks don't get production in a couple of seasons, when he is in his draft +5 year, then that's when I would start considering him as a bust. But at this point, I would say he is on par for the course. I like this wait till draft+5 year to determine if they're going to be bust or not, not just for PWFs but all players. Similar situation with Baer this season. We will know what we have in him this year and maybe the next if we hang onto him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 4 minutes ago, Jonald said: I like this wait till draft+5 year to determine if they're going to be bust or not, not just for PWFs but all players. Similar situation with Baer this season. We will know what we have in him this year and maybe the next if we hang onto him. Skille was drafted top 10 too. He's in his draft + 11 year. Guys who are going to be difference makers show signs pretty quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vancan2233 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 5 minutes ago, Alflives said: Skille was drafted top 10 too. He's in his draft + 11 year. Guys who are going to be difference makers show signs pretty quick. The Sedins, Naslund and Bertuzzi all started off very slow in their NHL careers. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 15 minutes ago, vancan2233 said: The Sedins, Naslund and Bertuzzi all started off very slow in their NHL careers. Marcus had 52 points in his third season Todd Bertuzzi had 39 points in his first season The Twins had almost 40 points each in their first seasons. These three players showed encouraging signs very early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vancan2233 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 36 minutes ago, Alflives said: Marcus had 52 points in his third season Todd Bertuzzi had 39 points in his first season The Twins had almost 40 points each in their first seasons. These three players showed encouraging signs very early. No these players did not show any signs of the players they became. All where looking like 3rd line to fill in one the first type players not the dominate players they did become. Not one person on the planet had the foresight to predict what they became. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 1 minute ago, vancan2233 said: No these players did not show any signs of the players they became. All where looking like 3rd line to fill in one the first type players not the dominate players they did become. Not one person on the planet had the foresight to predict what they became. These three all showed elite skill early on, as evidenced by their point totals. Jake had a 20 game run last Jan/Feb where he showed he can dominate. Hopefully he gets fit enough to be consistent that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vancan2233 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Just now, Alflives said: These three all showed elite skill early on, as evidenced by their point totals. Jake had a 20 game run last Jan/Feb where he showed he can dominate. Hopefully he gets fit enough to be consistent that way. Never mind it seems to be going over your head as to what I trying to get across. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Spector Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Alflives said: Marcus had 52 points in his third season Todd Bertuzzi had 39 points in his first season The Twins had almost 40 points each in their first seasons. These three players showed encouraging signs very early. Naslund had 34 points in his fifth year playing in Vancouver. So he actually regressed. He didn't break out until he was 25. Bertuzzi had 32 points in his third year. So he also regressed. He didn't break out until he was 24. The twins were highly regarded top picks who played sheltered minutes on the second line behind the Westcoast Express for several years. They didn't break out until they were 24. Jake is only 20 right now. He has a lot of tools but his toolbox needs work. Hopefully he breaks out next year. But it could be another 2-3 years before he starts to really excel. We're gonna have to wait awhile before we determine whether Jake is a bust or not. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borvat Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 He needs to mature and commit to training harder in the off season. The skills are there when he applies himself. He had lost his confidence and was floundering. The NHL isn't a forgiving and nurturing environment, Utica will be be a better place for him. I think if he figures out what it takes and is able to stay focused he will be fine. If not, like a lot of others before him, he will fade away. Overcoming difficulty is not in everyone's make up. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now