Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[DownUndaCanuck]

23 hours ago, FaninMex said:

And maybe a coach.

He's playing 2nd line winger minutes at the moment, what more does he want? He's even spent lots of time with Pettersson and Boeser/Miller on the 1st line.

 

Nothing but excuses his whole career, when are people going to say enough's enough and put the blame on him as a player? I trust JB will make the right decision when the time comes, evaluate his play over the last couple of seasons and see what happens.

 

He has admitted this is a hard year on the young guys but you can see around at this point in the season, the other young guys Demko and Gaudette are starting to play much better like their old selves. Jake hasn't got much/any offence going yet which is still a concern and he's playing with Bo and Pearson...he had 13 minutes which is more than most of our bottom-6 forwards as well.

[Captain Canuck #12]

8 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Jake Virtanen vs a slightly tired McDavid. Still impressive. His IQ is actually not bad at all. Look how he protects this puck away from McDavid. Very effective.

I still think he should have stopped and thrown a reverse hit on McDavid, then continued on his breakaway! 

[FaninMex]

38 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

He's playing 2nd line winger minutes at the moment, what more does he want? He's even spent lots of time with Pettersson and Boeser/Miller on the 1st line.

 

Nothing but excuses his whole career, when are people going to say enough's enough and put the blame on him as a player? I trust JB will make the right decision when the time comes, evaluate his play over the last couple of seasons and see what happens.

 

He has admitted this is a hard year on the young guys but you can see around at this point in the season, the other young guys Demko and Gaudette are starting to play much better like their old selves. Jake hasn't got much/any offence going yet which is still a concern and he's playing with Bo and Pearson...he had 13 minutes which is more than most of our bottom-6 forwards as well.

You mean he has been there for 4 games, right? He has also had good chances and shot placement. Like the Ott game, got the puck at the side of the net and put it up but the goalie got up for it.

Last game against Oilers he was in a shutdown role with Horvat and Pearson and had a very good game against Mc and Drai. 

What more do you want? He has developed slowly but it has been steady.

I think he should be placed on the PP2 in Ovie's spot because of his shot and history as a goal scorer from there, but the coach has the PP1 play all the minutes.

I think if Green trusts JV to be on a line with Horvat facing the best duo in the league, then he could potentially be good on the PK too. Again, Green thinks different.

[DownUndaCanuck]

1 hour ago, FaninMex said:

What more do you want? He has developed slowly but it has been steady.

He's got 3 goals in 27 games. You need to be scoring more than 1 goal every 10 games wherever you are in the line-up let alone on our 2nd and 3rd lines.

 

I compare him to Gaudette a lot because they're both similar age, similar developmental pathways but of course Virtanen was a high pick, Gaudette was a low pick, Virtanen is costing us some cap space and Gaudette is less than half his price.

 

Go figure Gaudette gets less of an opportunity than Virtanen gets gifted to him and has twice as many points in much less quality and quantity ice-time, and even by his standards he's having an average season.

 

All these shots, skating and hits are nice, I agree, he looks like he's playing well at times, but Virtanen needs to bring more. He needs to score goals and put up points, that's the bottom line. 0 assists in 27 games is also pretty telling of his general lack of offence.

[FaninMex]

12 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

He's got 3 goals in 27 games. You need to be scoring more than 1 goal every 10 games wherever you are in the line-up let alone on our 2nd and 3rd lines.

 

I compare him to Gaudette a lot because they're both similar age, similar developmental pathways but of course Virtanen was a high pick, Gaudette was a low pick, Virtanen is costing us some cap space and Gaudette is less than half his price.

 

Go figure Gaudette gets less of an opportunity than Virtanen gets gifted to him and has twice as many points in much less quality and quantity ice-time, and even by his standards he's having an average season.

 

All these shots, skating and hits are nice, I agree, he looks like he's playing well at times, but Virtanen needs to bring more. He needs to score goals and put up points, that's the bottom line. 0 assists in 27 games is also pretty telling of his general lack of offence.

You keep talking about JV getting gifted minutes but he gets bottom 6 minutes most of the time with rare PP2 opportunities. Now that he is with Horvat they are playing shutdown role. In this role he has been getting some chances but like many on this team the goals just have not been coming.

Also, in this role he is not going to get many opportunities as he is being played Defensive minutes. Again, We are watching the game totally different.

[BarnBurner]

3 hours ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

I still think he should have stopped and thrown a reverse hit on McDavid, then continued on his breakaway! 

I will say one thing about JV, he definitely gets pumped up playing against McD. Probably started with that hit at the Young Stars tournament.

[-AJ-]

25 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

You keep talking about JV getting gifted minutes but he gets bottom 6 minutes most of the time with rare PP2 opportunities. Now that he is with Horvat they are playing shutdown role. In this role he has been getting some chances but like many on this team the goals just have not been coming.

Also, in this role he is not going to get many opportunities as he is being played Defensive minutes. Again, We are watching the game totally different.

I'm not sure even defensive usage can justify 3 points in 27 games. Sutter has more points and he hasn't played a single second on the 2nd line.

[FaninMex]

32 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I'm not sure even defensive usage can justify 3 points in 27 games. Sutter has more points and he hasn't played a single second on the 2nd line.

Have you forgotten that JV was playing with Roussel and Beagle? That whole line has generated some opportunity and played well together but nothing was going in. They were also starting the majority of the time in their D zone. 

How many points are they supposed to get? Remember to that Green often will play the PP1 the full 2 minutes. Gaudette on the other hand was getting better quality minutes with better linemates despite what downunder was saying.

[-AJ-]

10 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

Have you forgotten that JV was playing with Roussel and Beagle? That whole line has generated some opportunity and played well together but nothing was going in. They were also starting the majority of the time in their D zone. 

How many points are they supposed to get? Remember to that Green often will play the PP1 the full 2 minutes. Gaudette on the other hand was getting better quality minutes with better linemates despite what downunder was saying.

Both Beagle and Roussel have spent almost no time on the PP, whereas Virtanen does get some PP time. In addition, Beagle and Roussel also play many minutes shorthanded, whereas Virtanen never does.

 

Virtanen has the lowest points-per even strength minute of every forward on the team other than those with 0 points. He's scored one point per 103.5 minutes of even strength ice time. Roussel, has scored 1 point per roughly 93 minutes of even strength ice time, and is the 2nd worst on the team. Beagle is at 55.6 minutes of even strength time per point.

 

Virtanen is being given little opportunity, but even still, he's underperforming. It's unreasonable to expect him to score at a 20-goal pace given his usage, but it's not unreasonable to expect far more than 3 points. If we assume he's on par with Beagle, he should at least be closer to 6 points, and I'm sure we all want him to score more points than Beagle.

[FaninMex]

52 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Both Beagle and Roussel have spent almost no time on the PP, whereas Virtanen does get some PP time. In addition, Beagle and Roussel also play many minutes shorthanded, whereas Virtanen never does.

 

Virtanen has the lowest points-per even strength minute of every forward on the team other than those with 0 points. He's scored one point per 103.5 minutes of even strength ice time. Roussel, has scored 1 point per roughly 93 minutes of even strength ice time, and is the 2nd worst on the team. Beagle is at 55.6 minutes of even strength time per point.

 

Virtanen is being given little opportunity, but even still, he's underperforming. It's unreasonable to expect him to score at a 20-goal pace given his usage, but it's not unreasonable to expect far more than 3 points. If we assume he's on par with Beagle, he should at least be closer to 6 points, and I'm sure we all want him to score more points than Beagle.

What was his TOI average for the early games? Wasn't it like 7-9 min. That makes a difference than if he was getting 12+ as you are more engaged and things just happen more.

He is now averaging 12+ and he has been getting good looks and just missing the holes. I can think of a number of chances that have opened up for him but have just missed recently.

[Ballisticsports.]

9 hours ago, CanuckleHorse said:

I love how the haters try and call him slow McJebus had a slight lead and Jake still left him behind.

ps: was that slash in the hands called?

Has anyone called him slow ? (maybe in his thought process)

Comparing him to McDavid is embarrassing, especially something so long ago and an isolated incident, because the Oilers only win when he scores, he does get tired or plays injured most likely.

Comparing Jake to Mason Raymond is a better comparable

There is definitely more to hockey than speed skating,( as Jake shows  us) or we should have hired Canadian Gaetan Bouche who i am sure touched a hockey stick

[Stoyoma]

I've noticed he has become much better at making plays in his own zone to get the puck out or pass to a teammate.  He was atrocious at this early in his career and even earlier this season.  He was decent last game, made some good plays on the cycle and had a couple of chances but needs to bear down and bury some sooner or later.  

[dpn1]

The year before JT got here he scored 13g in 75 games.  Every player goes through slumps that impact their whole seasons at different times in their carrers.  Jake seems to be a far better player this year.  He is making good passes and winning more puck battles along the boards.  Gaudette, Big Mac and Rousell all have been more undisciplined defensively and taken too many bad penalties.  Jake is doing everything pretty good and is just struggling putting the puck in the net.  I think comparing Jake to a player who would not go to the hard places and seemed to just skate around the peripheral and taking shots from too far away to have any impact (Mason Raymond).  They are nothing alike.  

[BarnBurner]

There was someone on the GDT last night trashing Jake at any opportunity. It was ridiculous. He's a hater, as are many others. But JV played a rock-solid game. His ability to recover, take away and cause offense is severely underrated. If he can put it all together, we have a fantastic player. Some people are way too critical. Hope their lives are as perfect as they think they are. 

[CanuckleHorse]

2 hours ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Has anyone called him slow ? (maybe in his thought process)

Comparing him to McDavid is embarrassing, especially something so long ago and an isolated incident, because the Oilers only win when he scores, he does get tired or plays injured most likely.

Comparing Jake to Mason Raymond is a better comparable

There is definitely more to hockey than speed skating,( as Jake shows  us) or we should have hired Canadian Gaetan Bouche who i am sure touched a hockey stick

Some of the idiots try their best to slag Jake most are the McJebus fans who still are butt hurt over that hit in the young-stars game 

[Dazzle]

Virtanen is definitely looking like he's putting in consistency. Maybe Pearson should be replaced by Virtanen.

[Fred65]

For a team to be successful every one has to be working at peak efficiency. If not you loose or worse still you become average. To me Virtanen has at times looked ok but here's the problem. He's on the ice and sees what he has to do, say forecheck, get's there a little late but then has no plan B to recover. He's a one play hockey player, there's no flow to his game. He doesn't see the game he sees the play. Some suggest that maybe his hockey IQ is lacking and I suppose you could say that but his game has no flow to it, it's one and done until his next shift. He has the physical attributes for an individual game but not a full game plan. It's a shame but there you are, you can't chnage a players thought process. In a dog world he would be a retriever go get the stick but then what ?  

[CanuckleHorse]

The fact of the matter is he’s improving not hurting his line in anyway and if and when he does get going he will be a force he has the game just needs time!!!

[-AJ-]

7 hours ago, FaninMex said:

What was his TOI average for the early games? Wasn't it like 7-9 min. That makes a difference than if he was getting 12+ as you are more engaged and things just happen more.

He is now averaging 12+ and he has been getting good looks and just missing the holes. I can think of a number of chances that have opened up for him but have just missed recently.

I really do hope that Virtanen gets it together. I remain in his corner and was a big advocate of his after his 36 points in 69 games last year. I just want to call a spade a spade when I see it. Let's hope him getting more chances turns into points soon.

[Dazzle]

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

For a team to be successful every one has to be working at peak efficiency. If not you loose or worse still you become average. To me Virtanen has at times looked ok but here's the problem. He's on the ice and sees what he has to do, say forecheck, get's there a little late but then has no plan B to recover. He's a one play hockey player, there's no flow to his game. He doesn't see the game he sees the play. Some suggest that maybe his hockey IQ is lacking and I suppose you could say that but his game has no flow to it, it's one and done until his next shift. He has the physical attributes for an individual game but not a full game plan. It's a shame but there you are, you can't chnage a players thought process. In a dog world he would be a retriever go get the stick but then what ?  

So this reflects the coaching and lack of trust on him. He's keeping the game so simple that he's barely using all of his skills.