FaninMex Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Fred65 said: For a team to be successful every one has to be working at peak efficiency. If not you loose or worse still you become average. To me Virtanen has at times looked ok but here's the problem. He's on the ice and sees what he has to do, say forecheck, get's there a little late but then has no plan B to recover. He's a one play hockey player, there's no flow to his game. He doesn't see the game he sees the play. Some suggest that maybe his hockey IQ is lacking and I suppose you could say that but his game has no flow to it, it's one and done until his next shift. He has the physical attributes for an individual game but not a full game plan. It's a shame but there you are, you can't chnage a players thought process. In a dog world he would be a retriever go get the stick but then what ? He cannot skate faster than the puck so he is going to be late but like Motte he follows the play to the neutral zone and takes the last player because a winger should cover a D man in the corner where the Blue line meets the boards. What are you talking about? It's a shame that some posters think they know the game but do not even know where the winger should be in the D zone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bree2 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 On 3/10/2021 at 6:17 AM, Law of Goalies said: You are not watching enough games I watch them all and i am not stupid! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 10 hours ago, -AJ- said: Both Beagle and Roussel have spent almost no time on the PP, whereas Virtanen does get some PP time. In addition, Beagle and Roussel also play many minutes shorthanded, whereas Virtanen never does. Virtanen has the lowest points-per even strength minute of every forward on the team other than those with 0 points. He's scored one point per 103.5 minutes of even strength ice time. Roussel, has scored 1 point per roughly 93 minutes of even strength ice time, and is the 2nd worst on the team. Beagle is at 55.6 minutes of even strength time per point. Virtanen is being given little opportunity, but even still, he's underperforming. It's unreasonable to expect him to score at a 20-goal pace given his usage, but it's not unreasonable to expect far more than 3 points. If we assume he's on par with Beagle, he should at least be closer to 6 points, and I'm sure we all want him to score more points than Beagle. I agree that it's nearly impossible to justify Jake's point totals, but come on. He barely sees a lick of powerplay time, that second unit gets 20-30 seconds starting from behind their own net. First unit we all know. 2nd unit is Hogs, Gaudette, Pearson Schmidt and Myers. With Petey down I think Jake has gotten like 20-25 seconds of PP time every now and then. But with Petey healthy he doesn't sniff the PP anymore. Jake's suffering from an identity crisis. So many different voices in his head telling him what he should do. He is on a merry go round of linemates. Still, he hasn't looked bad in his time with the 2nd line, but his lack of production is concerning. Not that it really matters, he was producing with them last season and was pulled off the top 6 when the team got healthy. He has helped create chances. Hell, in that game he had 2 goals in, he arguably could have walked away with like 1-3 assists as well if the team buried some of his passes. At this rate I am just hoping they can build a decent bottom 6 around Jake, Motter, and Gaudette. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Lock Posted March 16, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 16, 2021 On 3/10/2021 at 6:24 AM, Law of Goalies said: That's the problem. When he had his point/goal streak last year (according to most people here), guess which lines he played on? He was top 6, i think he even had like a 5/6 goal streak. And then once his goal streak ended, he got demoted back to third line and then he started struggling. I mean it's quite disheartening. The thing is, there's more than just goal streaks. For example, look at Hoglander and how noticable he is on the ice even when he's not in a goal streak. If Virtanen could even head that direction of work ethic just a little bit, that could go a long way. It would have prevented him from going back to the bottom 6 after his goal streak. Goals are one thing, but effort can really help in persuading a coach. I mostly think it's on Virtanen for not at least putting in the effort to stay on that top line because he was literally handed it to him on a silver platter and he kind of squandered it, which is unfortunate, because I really want him to succeed. 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 15 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said: He's playing 2nd line winger minutes at the moment, what more does he want? He's even spent lots of time with Pettersson and Boeser/Miller on the 1st line. Nothing but excuses his whole career, when are people going to say enough's enough and put the blame on him as a player? I trust JB will make the right decision when the time comes, evaluate his play over the last couple of seasons and see what happens. He has admitted this is a hard year on the young guys but you can see around at this point in the season, the other young guys Demko and Gaudette are starting to play much better like their old selves. Jake hasn't got much/any offence going yet which is still a concern and he's playing with Bo and Pearson...he had 13 minutes which is more than most of our bottom-6 forwards as well. Discussions about Jake instantly become less attractive the moment you realize this is more about posters not wanting to admit that they’ve been wrong about Virtanen over the past 7 years. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, guntrix said: Discussions about Jake instantly become less attractive the moment you realize this is more about posters not wanting to admit that they’ve been wrong about Virtanen over the past 7 years. I don't know if it's about right or wrong so much as it is determining when to give a player a chance and when it's time to move on. For example, I still stand by what I've said 2 or 3 years ago regarding Virtanen as some players do take longer to develop and we need patience with our prospects. Spoiler alert, but not every 1st round pick lives up to expectations, and that's the case for every team in this league. lol Edited March 16, 2021 by The Lock 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpn1 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 33 minutes ago, The Lock said: The thing is, there's more than just goal streaks. For example, look at Hoglander and how noticable he is on the ice even when he's not in a goal streak. If Virtanen could even head that direction of work ethic just a little bit, that could go a long way. It would have prevented him from going back to the bottom 6 after his goal streak. Goals are one thing, but effort can really help in persuading a coach. I mostly think it's on Virtanen for not at least putting in the effort to stay on that top line because he was literally handed it to him on a silver platter and he kind of squandered it, which is unfortunate, because I really want him to succeed. For the last 10 games Jake has been forechecking quite well. I agree with what some have said in that, people have been so negative about Jake that they just can't be impartial any more. Jake has been in checking mode with Bo and Pearson and Greener trust him there. He is out in the last 5 min. of the game defending their leads and has looked good. I think there is still a lot of hope for Jake. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, dpn1 said: For the last 10 games Jake has been forechecking quite well. I agree with what some have said in that, people have been so negative about Jake that they just can't be impartial any more. Jake has been in checking mode with Bo and Pearson and Greener trust him there. He is out in the last 5 min. of the game defending their leads and has looked good. I think there is still a lot of hope for Jake. There could be. The main thing there is having consistency. We've seen this before where he'll have a good 5 or 10 or 15 games and then he goes back to having less effort. We've seen this a lot unfortunately. lol So I guess let's hope he finds that consistency. Edited March 17, 2021 by The Lock 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 I'm not trying to teach any one that's Greens job and I'm not picking on the forecheck what I said was "say the forecheck" eg the forecheck, it could be the back check the third man high it could be any aspect of the game. I certainly never liked to see the winger in corner per se, but the system that Vcr employes is mainly the first forward back becomes the centre and every one fills in from that point. Virtanen seems only able to complete the initial assignment and if things go pear shaped he's lost, that's what I see but you make your own decision. I know there's an element on the board that are the Virtanen for Prime Minister brigade. There's a reason he hasn't become the player JB expected and the problem is identifying the problem and correcting it so far neither have happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law of Goalies Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 2 hours ago, The Lock said: The thing is, there's more than just goal streaks. For example, look at Hoglander and how noticable he is on the ice even when he's not in a goal streak. If Virtanen could even head that direction of work ethic just a little bit, that could go a long way. It would have prevented him from going back to the bottom 6 after his goal streak. Goals are one thing, but effort can really help in persuading a coach. I mostly think it's on Virtanen for not at least putting in the effort to stay on that top line because he was literally handed it to him on a silver platter and he kind of squandered it, which is unfortunate, because I really want him to succeed. I agree in some aspects because even last year, i watched him and he was consistently doing fine, albeit he wasn't setting the place on fire but he was decent overall and didn't really "disappear". Same with this year, at least the past 10-15 games, he had been quite noticeable even without scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law of Goalies Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 17 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said: He's playing 2nd line winger minutes at the moment, what more does he want? He's even spent lots of time with Pettersson and Boeser/Miller on the 1st line. Nothing but excuses his whole career, when are people going to say enough's enough and put the blame on him as a player? I trust JB will make the right decision when the time comes, evaluate his play over the last couple of seasons and see what happens. He has admitted this is a hard year on the young guys but you can see around at this point in the season, the other young guys Demko and Gaudette are starting to play much better like their old selves. Jake hasn't got much/any offence going yet which is still a concern and he's playing with Bo and Pearson...he had 13 minutes which is more than most of our bottom-6 forwards as well. That's what I don't understand from posters. Horvats line wasn't even generating offence before Jake joined it. And now people blame him for the fact that Horvat line has no offence, it's silly. Even hogs got more points now, playing with Miller and Boes. I'm not saying the problem is Horvat or Tanner but it is definitely not Jake's fault. In addition, saying jake has no offense because he had no assists is even more ridiculous. I have seen most of his offensive zone passes and it was mainly because the other person didn't finish. As another poster mentioned, he could of got 2-3 assists on his 2 goal game. Last year he got more assists because he fed those passes to Miller and Petey and they usually can finish those chances and he got more pp time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpn1 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 14 hours ago, Fred65 said: I'm not trying to teach any one that's Greens job and I'm not picking on the forecheck what I said was "say the forecheck" eg the forecheck, it could be the back check the third man high it could be any aspect of the game. I certainly never liked to see the winger in corner per se, but the system that Vcr employes is mainly the first forward back becomes the centre and every one fills in from that point. Virtanen seems only able to complete the initial assignment and if things go pear shaped he's lost, that's what I see but you make your own decision. I know there's an element on the board that are the Virtanen for Prime Minister brigade. There's a reason he hasn't become the player JB expected and the problem is identifying the problem and correcting it so far neither have happened As you say,, we will have to agree to disagree on this but your thoughts were good and thanks for not going overboard with your criticism. I am not ready to name a street after him yet but I just think he is doing better than some give him credit for. Thanks for the perspective. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukini Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 The piggyback attempt on Hughes in 3on3 was good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcam Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Bottom line we have 4 top 6 forwards we need 2 more ....1. Petey 2. Boeser 3. Horvat 4. Miller ---- Hoglander 20, plays great and will be a solid top forward very soon....Podkolzin 6'2, 210 - will fit in top 6 next year.... .Vesey, Gaudette, Motte , Virtanen, MacEwen -- Next season, Lind , Gadjovich Most of Salary is paid by April 12th Pearson - Moved April 12th -- 3rd rounder -- Maybe Edmonton Sutter --Depth guy for playoff team -- Benn - 4th rounder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpn1 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 10 hours ago, wildcam said: Bottom line we have 4 top 6 forwards we need 2 more ....1. Petey 2. Boeser 3. Horvat 4. Miller ---- Hoglander 20, plays great and will be a solid top forward very soon....Podkolzin 6'2, 210 - will fit in top 6 next year.... .Vesey, Gaudette, Motte , Virtanen, MacEwen -- Next season, Lind , Gadjovich Most of Salary is paid by April 12th Pearson - Moved April 12th -- 3rd rounder -- Maybe Edmonton Sutter --Depth guy for playoff team -- Benn - 4th rounder Good points but I don't think Podz will be a top 6 forward next year. We were lucky with Hogz fitting in so well right away. I can't see us catching lightning in a bottle twice in one season. Have said it before, I see Podz development going similar to Bo's. He will start in the Bottom 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 23 hours ago, dpn1 said: As you say,, we will have to agree to disagree on this but your thoughts were good and thanks for not going overboard with your criticism. I am not ready to name a street after him yet but I just think he is doing better than some give him credit for. Thanks for the perspective. Jake is not measured by the same stats that many of his team mates are. The number of posts on this thread testify to that. Often the refrain is questioning his hockey IQ? If that is the case go up and down the roster as I see many examples of questionable plays. If Jake stays with Vancouver I think he has to carve a d-side roll for himself. His offence might evolve from that. I am also starting to wonder whether a different coach could do more with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukini Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRAZY_4_NAZZY Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 Was a dumb penalty to take at the time, but part of me loled when he jabbed Toffoli in the chops. I think he is starting to understand how to play a consistent 200 ft game. I haven't hated his level of play as of late, maybe he is learning i dont know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law of Goalies Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 6 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said: Was a dumb penalty to take at the time, but part of me loled when he jabbed Toffoli in the chops. I think he is starting to understand how to play a consistent 200 ft game. I haven't hated his level of play as of late, maybe he is learning i dont know. Oh don't say they, the blind haters like zucchini and bree will come at you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 12 minutes ago, Law of Goalies said: Oh don't say they, the blind haters like zucchini and bree will come at you. Was a stupid penalty for sure. Could have coat us the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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