Alflives Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 4 minutes ago, Toews said: Where did I bash JV? I'm glad to hear you are a JV fan, who is glad we didnt draft a small perimiter player in that spot. Good for you standing up for our guys. my apologies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spotted Zebra Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 12 minutes ago, Alflives said: Can we just stop with the JV bashing and Nylander/ Ehlers love affair on OUR CANUCKS site? we have JV, who provides a fast physical game. The other two are small players who help their teams in a different way. They are more like Vey and Baer, which is just fine. It takes all types to make a good team. JB clearly believed we already have young guys to provide what Nylander and Ehlers do in Vey and the second for Baer. He knew we needed what JV provides more than the other stuff that Vey and Baer already give us, so JB drafted JV. What's wrong with liking other players on a Canucks site? Maybe not for prospects because you can't predict a 19 year olds future, but some players are simply better than others. I liked Forseberg more than Naslund, Kesler more than Burrows etc.. Doesn't mean I cheer for anyone other than Vancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 6 minutes ago, Spotted Zebra said: What's wrong with liking other players on a Canucks site? Maybe not for prospects because you can't predict a 19 year olds future, but some players are simply better than others. I liked Forseberg more than Naslund, Kesler more than Burrows etc.. Doesn't mean I cheer for anyone other than Vancouver I liked Foresberg too. Great player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Just now, Alflives said: I'm glad to hear you are a JV fan, who is glad we didnt draft a small perimiter player in that spot. Good for you standing up for our guys. my apologies You are right. I should just be like you and suspend logic just so I can defend my favorite players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckledraggin Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, guntrix said: Not a love affair.. not our fault JV bandwagoners avoid a debate like the plague. The guy said that Nylander was an injury risk although he's only suffered one major injury. If we want to apply the same parameters to everyone then Virtanen is an injury risk too. As of TODAY, a debate between Virtanen and his closest draftees is warranted, especially when the other two have done better so far professionally. Thinking that Virtanen will become an elite power forward and that the other two will round off as perimeter players is PURE speculation and has absolutely no bearing on today's discussion. You're hilarious. There's a JV bandwagon? Why aren't you on it? What team do you cheer for?<---serious question. Is it really warranted to argue sour grapes with the minority, who are basing their opinions on boxscores? What have you thought of Jakes game lately? He looks like he's starting to put it together. Nylander hasn't played in a while and Ehlers looks like he's heating up and starting to get top line minutes. What's left to discuss? There is no time machine waiting to take you back so you can whisper 'Ehlers is better' in Benning's ear before he walks up to the stage. If you did he would look down his spectacles at you and smirk and then he would walk up on that stage and announce that with the 6th pick in the 2014 draft the Canucks select Jake Virtanen. There really is no reason for this thread to be as long as it is, but even when he's playing well you're finding ways to criticize. I think it's great and I look forward to saying the same things over and over to you and the others for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANUCK-EXPRESS Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 While y'all are arguing, how was his play today?? Missed the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) I give up, if anyones say he's been garbage since he has returned from the WJC then you either dont know how to evaluate players or you are blind. 4 minutes ago, CANUCK-EXPRESS said: While y'all are arguing, how was his play today?? Missed the game He played well. Had a partical breakaway that hit Fluery in the shoulder (which was a good save) and had a nice shot for a rebound but no one was around to put into the empty net Edited January 24, 2016 by Gstank29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickyoursedin Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Virtanen played fine I think the only frustrating thing is everybody is looking for results but most nights he doesn't get the ice time. Today he got 9:36 of ice time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksander Barkov Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, JamesB said: We all hope Jake becomes an excellent player. But, as guntrix points out, on the basis of measurable performance so far, both Nylander and Ehlers are significantly ahead of Jake at this stage. Nylander is having a fantastic year in the AHL and Ehlers is holding his own in the NHL so far with 18 pts in 47 games while Jake has while Jake has 5 pts in 25 games. With those numbers at age 19 it is very likely that Ehlers will be a good top 6 forward, while Jake is on a trajectory that looks more like bottom 6. So Barkov might love Jake's game, but I am sure that most GMs around the league would take either Nylander or Ehlers ahead of Jake right now. Significantly ahead of Jake based on what? Ahl production? You must be one of those guys that only looks at points and not much else. You have to take into account the opportunities these guys get on a nightly basis. Ehlers averages 14.3 mins per game as of today. But we all know he was averaging 16-17 mins at the start of the year playing with REAL TOP 6 PLAYERS. He had a stretch of 20+ games of doing a whole lot of nothing for his team which hurt them big time so they had to demote him to the third line. Which is why his ice time per game looks skewed. Jake on the other hand has been scratched every other game averaging 10 mins of ice time per game AND thats with 4th line players rougly 80% of the time. He isn't being thrown to the wolves they're taking their time with him easing him in which is the right thing to do. Same as Horvat for example. Horvat was labeled as a 3rd liner because of similar reasons as Jake(not getting enough opportunities to produce right away). Jake will earn more ice time prove me right eventually Edited January 24, 2016 by Aleksander Barkov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 4 hours ago, JamesB said: We all hope Jake becomes an excellent player. But, as guntrix points out, on the basis of measurable performance so far, both Nylander and Ehlers are significantly ahead of Jake at this stage. Nylander is having a fantastic year in the AHL and Ehlers is holding his own in the NHL so far with 18 pts in 47 games while Jake has while Jake has 5 pts in 25 games. With those numbers at age 19 it is very likely that Ehlers will be a good top 6 forward, while Jake is on a trajectory that looks more like bottom 6. So Barkov might love Jake's game, but I am sure that most GMs around the league would take either Nylander or Ehlers ahead of Jake right now. So a guy in the AHL putting up points is ahead of Jake who's playing 10 mins a night in the bigs? That's very debatable... Ehlers is good but he won't be as effective as Jake in a 7 game playoff series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) He was playing how he was suppose to be playing before the WJC. But now he is putting to together on a more consisent bases Baby steps that you and other failed to exknowledge. Edited January 24, 2016 by Gstank29 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, messier's_elbow said: So a guy in the AHL putting up points is ahead of Jake who's playing 10 mins a night in the bigs? That's very debatable... Ehlers is good but he won't be as effective as Jake in a 7 game playoff series. This is a projection, not a fact. That is, unless you're psychic. In that case, please tell me the next winning power ball numbers. Edited January 24, 2016 by guntrix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksander Barkov Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 2 hours ago, messier's_elbow said: So a guy in the AHL putting up points is ahead of Jake who's playing 10 mins a night in the bigs? That's very debatable... Ehlers is good but he won't be as effective as Jake in a 7 game playoff series. Ehlers is good at is speeding around the outside and getting low % shots on goal not much else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowardrobertford Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 24 minutes ago, Aleksander Barkov said: Ehlers is good at is speeding around the outside and getting low % shots on goal not much else Sounds like what Virt loves to do, skate the puck around the net then loses it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CanucksJay Posted January 24, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, Aleksander Barkov said: Significantly ahead of Jake based on what? Ahl production? You must be one of those guys that only looks at points and not much else. You have to take into account the opportunities these guys get on a nightly basis. Ehlers averages 14.3 mins per game as of today. But we all know he was averaging 16-17 mins at the start of the year playing with REAL TOP 6 PLAYERS. He had a stretch of 20+ games of doing a whole lot of nothing for his team which hurt them big time so they had to demote him to the third line. Which is why his ice time per game looks skewed. Jake on the other hand has been scratched every other game averaging 10 mins of ice time per game AND thats with 4th line players rougly 80% of the time. He isn't being thrown to the wolves they're taking their time with him easing him in which is the right thing to do. Same as Horvat for example. Horvat was labeled as a 3rd liner because of similar reasons as Jake(not getting enough opportunities to produce right away). Jake will earn more ice time prove me right eventually I think I've also read that Jake's advanced stats are quite good as well. Nylander nor Ehlers haven't proved jack to suggest one is better than the other. I will admit that Jake's positioning and hockey smarts weren't too good in the first half of the season but we are starting to see him come around after the world juniors. He gets limited time on the 4th line with the likes of Cracknell and Dorsett. He gets no PP time and anybody that expects Jake to outproduce Ehlers needs to put things in perspective and wonder whether that is a realistic expectation. What I like seeing instead is him starting to get more confident and holding onto the puck a bit more looking to make plays rather than dishing it off right away and heading for a line change. He may not get more points than Nylander nor Ehlers but if Jake turns into a consistent 60 point player who has the ability to lay guys out and have d-men turning pucks over in fear of getting hit, I will take that over Ehlers or Nylander because that is our organizational need. Our version of Nylander and Ehlers are McCann, Baertschi, Shinkauruk so if just one of those guys can outproduce Nylander or Ehlers, this whole discussion is moot because those are the guys we have to fill the scoring roles. Regardless of same draft class, you have to compare apples to apples and the comparison isn't always based on points. For instance, would you rather have Milan Lucic at 0.6 pts/game while physically imposing his will and defending his teammates helping the team overall play without fear playing tougher than they are, or would you rather have Eberle at 0.87 points /game who helps the team by scoring goals and assists? It really depends on organizational need and to compare the two players only by looking at points is just down right silly. Edited January 24, 2016 by CanucksJay 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 really happy or see Virtanen picking up his game after the WJC. he's been brought along slowly and good on desjardins for doing that for Jake. I feel like he's progressing slower than other prospects that members of this board seems to compare him to. but that's ok. not everyone develops at the same pace. I think Jake is gonna be a fine player for us. a top six forward I say. and yeah. hopefully with offensive flair to an already physical game. hope it develops into a more robust game down the road. he's playing well. we should be happy let's see him keep it up against Nashville on Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 6 hours ago, N4ZZY said: really happy or see Virtanen picking up his game after the WJC. he's been brought along slowly and good on desjardins for doing that for Jake. I feel like he's progressing slower than other prospects that members of this board seems to compare him to. but that's ok. not everyone develops at the same pace. I think Jake is gonna be a fine player for us. a top six forward I say. and yeah. hopefully with offensive flair to an already physical game. hope it develops into a more robust game down the road. he's playing well. we should be happy let's see him keep it up against Nashville on Tuesday. It always seems that the yardstick for measuring players is their ppg stats. What I look at is the progression of the entire roster and how each player will fit as the team is molded towards CUP contention. Virtanen's role will always have a big physical component which has been missing in Van for a long time. Combine that with him being a RW with speed and he is a necessity for this org. How is he progressing? At 19 and playing a quasi physical game I am excited about his prospects. With the experience of this year the ppg stats will go up as he has shown an ability to play the boards and go to the net. The only thing that could be better would be if Kassian had worked out and Van had to really nicely sized RW's who can skate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WonderTwinPowers Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) On Sunday, January 03, 2016 at 7:55 PM, Warhippy said: Didn't mean for this to be here. All the losers comparing PPG stats between the three are the same losers who said Nichushkin was the better choice due to his PPG. How smart do they look now? Edited January 24, 2016 by WonderTwinPowers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 31 minutes ago, WonderTwinPowers said: All the losers comparing PPG stats between the three are the same losers who said Nichushkin was the better choice due to his PPG. How smart do they look now? fair. Horvat in 117 NHL games has produced so far 47 points according to NHL.com. and Nichushkin has in 155 NHL games 51 points. pretty close. would've thought that the Russian would pull away in terms of points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WonderTwinPowers Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 15 minutes ago, N4ZZY said: fair. Horvat in 117 NHL games has produced so far 47 points according to NHL.com. and Nichushkin has in 155 NHL games 51 points. pretty close. would've thought that the Russian would pull away in terms of points. Yup and even without factoring in the quality of players they're playing with, special team times, zone starts. Not to mention the intangibles that Bo brings, just like Jake does with his physicality. Development's a crazy thing, basing how these players are going to end up off their rookie years ppg is hilarious though. So keep trying to prove you're smarter JamesB or guntrix, stroke those egos 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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