Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[terrible.dee]

On 12/7/2016 at 8:41 PM, MJDDawg said:

 

Not necessarily a good thing. Not taking away from the goal, but in the videos I've seen of him in Utica so far and as this video shows, he insists on playing the perimeter game instead of crashing the net with the puck and creating havoc. I really hope we start to see that in his game.

 

Have he and his agent put together a plan for getting him out of Vancouver?

 

His game is that different this year, why is he playing the way he is? it isn't by accident.

[terrible.dee]

On 12/5/2016 at 0:18 PM, J.R. said:

 

You didn't. I did. That's kind of the point.

 

Ignoring context to confirm your own biases doesn't lend itself to a good discussion or learning anything.

 

How many 18 year old goalies do you see in the NHL?

 

Being a power forward drafted as high as he was means that he SHOULD have plenty of skill to go with the power, this is a time when 18-year-olds step into the league right away and distinguish themselves as being top end talent, regardless of position

 

the fact that Jake was unable or unwilling to do that indicates that he probably should not have been drafted as high as he was, a project like what he has become is more of a later in the 1st type of thing, or not in the 1st round at all.

 

that is what the other poster is saying, that and if Jake had the high-end skill we were led to believe made him worthy of spending that big of an asset born him, it would have revealed it'self by now,  style of play is no excuse as top end skill rises to the top regardless

 

it funny forall the talk about slow prospect development in the nhl, the truley important players rarley need it..

[terrible.dee]

On 12/2/2016 at 9:11 PM, Green Goblin said:

I'm glad someone noticed lol. Yeah no I don't think we've had an immediate impact player who we've drafted. At least not in the last 2 decades... The Sedins were slowly given more minutes as they got more experience. Similar to what they've done with Baertschi and Horvat. 

 

Jake is a humble guy. But his poor play has caused the media and bandwagon fans to start rumours. I do believe he will take some great steps in the next year or two.

 

Linden in 88 Nedved in 90' and Bure in 91' (I think) are the three impact right away guys I can think of

 

God when you really think about it,:

 

Hodgson

Schroeder

White

Jensen

Kolstov

Smith

Bourdon (RIP)

Shinkaruk

 

Oh, Matias Ohlund whose first season was 96' I think tyhat was the last player, T

[messier's_elbow]

I think jake is a bit mentally fragile. It seems with him, it's all between the ears. He's got some confidence back, after looking like he had none. He has an elite physic with big strong legs. Speed for a big man is rare. Hits like a truck. Great shot, just needs to put it all together. Green will mould him into a player. 

 

Did the Canucks tell him to hit less? He hit way more last season it seems like. 

[canuktravella]

1 hour ago, messier's_elbow said:

I think jake is a bit mentally fragile. It seems with him, it's all between the ears. He's got some confidence back, after looking like he had none. He has an elite physic with big strong legs. Speed for a big man is rare. Hits like a truck. Great shot, just needs to put it all together. Green will mould him into a player. 

 

Did the Canucks tell him to hit less? He hit way more last season it seems like. 

 any coach developing him other than willie is a good thing  the guys clueless watch green turn this guy into a pro so he has a long good career for us 

[Phat Fingers]

I think Willie wanted Jake to focus on his two way play. Willie has treated all his prospects that way. This is inportant, but a coach needs to also work with the player that he has.  Willie seems less concerned with winning, and more concerned with 'not losing'. That is my biggest issue with WD. 

 

Jake and Willie clearly had a breakdown, as Jake is young and raw, but has talents this team needs badly. The man child is 20, rushed to the NHL under questionable priorities and a difference between his Junior club and the Canucks. 

 

Jake should have started in the AHL, was doing well at camp, had and injury and struggled to catch up. The only reason I can think of to keep him in the NHL was to monitor his recovery from that preseason injury.  Anything else looks like poor assest management and poor coaching. The Canucks would not likely advertise this, as others clubs would likely target Jake. 

 

EW

 

 

[Phat Fingers]

19 hours ago, firestorm238 said:

Yeah I agree - I feel like Willie has been keeping him at RW to help him feel more comfortable not realizing that he's actually way more comfortable at LW. 

 

 

17 hours ago, Tre Mac said:

Think WD used the 'it's harder to backcheck on your offwing' bit as to why he likes him at RW but I can't confirm that.

 

Willie has a mindset that IMO is a poor match for this club. Willie is coaching 'not to lose' games.  This might change as he gets more comfortable playing his younger players.  There have been some very questionable line ups with deployment that I don't agree with. 

 

After rhe Hansen injury and the loss in TO, that seemed to change a bit. T88 dressed, Horvat was used more agressively and Sutter started off with the twins. Things have gotten better since then. 

 

  Glad Jake is getting some positive results in Utica. Coach Green could cement his status as the CDC's future coach by building Jake into the PF he is ment to be. 

 

   

Edited December 10, 2016 by Eastcoast meets Westcoast

[Harvey Spector]

5 hours ago, terrible.dee said:

Linden in 88 Nedved in 90' and Bure in 91' (I think) are the three impact right away guys I can think of

 

God when you really think about it,:

 

Hodgson

Schroeder

White

Jensen

Kolstov

Smith

Bourdon (RIP)

Shinkaruk

 

Oh, Matias Ohlund whose first season was 96' I think tyhat was the last player, T

 

Bure didn't come over until he was 20, two years after he was drafted. Nedved's first year was average.  Ohlund played three years in Sweden after he was drafted before he came over. 

 

Linden was the best player to come out as an 18 year old that we drafted. Cam Neely actually had a very good rookie year. We just happened to have a really dumb coach at the time and our dumb GM decided to trade him. 

 

Others that were good right out of their draft year were Rick Vaive, Stan Smyl, Curt Fraser, Rick Lanz, Dennis Ververgaert, Jocelyn Guevremont and Dale Tallon. But you're going back to the 1970's with those guys. 

[baumerman77]

8 hours ago, Sean Monahan said:

I'm not saying it's a problem. I'm sure he's far from the only young professional hockey player to suffer from ego problems. As I said, as long as he's not our assaulting girls in bars, beating up cabbies, or causing problems in the room I really don't care. 

Yes. I think he should've went back to junior last year, not only for his on ice development but also because of his maturity (some young players just develop differently that way). I would like to see him stay in the AHL all season if possible, but I doubt that will happen. 

[aGENT]

7 hours ago, terrible.dee said:

Being a power forward drafted as high as he was means that he SHOULD have plenty of skill to go with the power, this is a time when 18-year-olds step into the league right away and distinguish themselves as being top end talent, regardless of position

 

the fact that Jake was unable or unwilling to do that indicates that he probably should not have been drafted as high as he was, a project like what he has become is more of a later in the 1st type of thing, or not in the 1st round at all.

 

that is what the other poster is saying, that and if Jake had the high-end skill we were led to believe made him worthy of spending that big of an asset born him, it would have revealed it'self by now,  style of play is no excuse as top end skill rises to the top regardless

 

it funny forall the talk about slow prospect development in the nhl, the truley important players rarley need it..

I'm still waiting to see this long list of 18 year old power forwards making major contributions in the NHL. I'll wait here...

[ice orca]

14 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I'm still waiting to see this long list of 18 year old power forwards making major contributions in the NHL. I'll wait here...

Well i can see one kid out of Jake's draft class starting to look like a good young PF...Nick Richie.

[Boudrias]

5 hours ago, messier's_elbow said:

I think jake is a bit mentally fragile. It seems with him, it's all between the ears. He's got some confidence back, after looking like he had none. He has an elite physic with big strong legs. Speed for a big man is rare. Hits like a truck. Great shot, just needs to put it all together. Green will mould him into a player. 

 

Did the Canucks tell him to hit less? He hit way more last season it seems like. 

I think there is a maturing process both on the mental side and on the NHL game. It is not junior and yet many fans extend junior stats into the NHL and get disappointed when that does not always happen. I watched Virtanen play about 5 - 6 games with the Hitmen and see much of the same play as he did with the Canucks. Trying to be defensively responsible which saw him high in the ozone for many plays. Not to much of a net presence but some nice passing to set up line mates.

 

I am not worried about Jake. I'm glad he is in Utica and out of the meddling media's crosshairs. Green can spend time with him in an enhanced practice environment. His game will benefit and he will be less susceptible to opinions when he comes back up. I hate the BS that media feeds these young players and then sham surprise when 18-19-20 year olds react poorly.

[OptionalPants]

4 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

I think Willie wanted Jake to focus on his two way play. Willie has treated all his prospects that way. This is inportant, but a coach needs to also work with the player that he has.  Willie seems less concerned with winning, and more concerned with 'not losing'. That is my biggest issue with WD. 

 

Jake and Willie clearly had a breakdown, as Jake is young and raw, but has talents this team needs badly. The man child is 20, rushed to the NHL under questionable priorities and a difference between his Junior club and the Canucks. 

 

Jake should have started in the AHL, was doing well at camp, had and injury and struggled to catch up. The only reason I can think of to keep him in the NHL was to monitor his recovery from that preseason injury.  Anything else looks like poor assest management and poor coaching. The Canucks would not likely advertise this, as others clubs would likely target Jake. 

 

EW

 

 

 

Yeah, I agree that Willie was focusing too much on the two way play/ not losing. Sometimes with the rookies you need to let them be aggressive or let them go a bit on the offensive side of the game (obviously you don't want to go too far otherwise you end up like Edmonton). But look at Toronto with their rookies, they let them have a little more freedom than Willie is giving and they are flourishing quite nicely in the NHL. If Green can let Virtanen hone his offensive skills a bit more than what he was able to do with the big club than maybe we'll see the Virtanen we all hoped we were getting when he was drafted.

 

*Also as a side note i thought that EW was always you just saying "ew" with some oomph, but I'm pretty sure now it's just you signing off w/ your username which makes quite a bit more sense.

[higgyfan]

8 minutes ago, OptionalPants said:

 

Yeah, I agree that Willie was focusing too much on the two way play/ not losing. Sometimes with the rookies you need to let them be aggressive or let them go a bit on the offensive side of the game (obviously you don't want to go too far otherwise you end up like Edmonton). But look at Toronto with their rookies, they let them have a little more freedom than Willie is giving and they are flourishing quite nicely in the NHL. If Green can let Virtanen hone his offensive skills a bit more than what he was able to do with the big club than maybe we'll see the Virtanen we all hoped we were getting when he was drafted.

 

*Also as a side note i thought that EW was always you just saying "ew" with some oomph, but I'm pretty sure now it's just you signing off w/ your username which makes quite a bit more sense.

Babcock has moved Nylander to the 4th line.  He said that Ny has to learn the defensive game.

[higgyfan]

50 minutes ago, ice orca said:

Well i can see one kid out of Jake's draft class starting to look like a good young PF...Nick Richie.

Better development plan...

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, ice orca said:

Well i can see one kid out of Jake's draft class starting to look like a good young PF...Nick Richie.

 

So you have a list of one, correct? 

 

Regardless, individual players develop at different rates.

 

Different types of players do as well. I mean is anybody upset that Demko wasn't contributing at the NHL level at 18 because 'so many kids are contributing at the NHL level at 18'?

 

Of course not, because people are aware goalies tend to take longer to develop. Just like most power forwards. 

 

I keep posting this... Anything he does in the NHL before he's about 23-24 is pure gravy. People shouldn't be expecting any significant contributions from him until then. That's 3+ years away folks. Patience. 

 

 

[OptionalPants]

39 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

Babcock has moved Nylander to the 4th line.  He said that Ny has to learn the defensive game.

 

Hmm, good point. But it took how many games for Babcock to finally do so? With Virtanen, Willie gave him basically zero leash. He was mostly playing on the 4th and 3rd lines last year, and the same for this season as well. Also Nylander's offensive game is definitely well developed so they can afford to make him learn some defence at this point.

[Phat Fingers]

5 minutes ago, OptionalPants said:

 

Hmm, good point. But it took how many games for Babcock to finally do so? With Virtanen, Willie gave him basically zero leash. He was mostly playing on the 4th and 3rd lines last year, and the same for this season as well. Also Nylander's offensive game is definitely well developed so they can afford to make him learn some defence at this point.

 

 

Jake was being reigned in from the get go in Van. I think it hurt his confidence and he was torn between playing the game naturally and having to overthink his two way work. That may pay off in the long term. But confidence is a very hard thing to regain once it is lost. 

[Off_The_Schneid!]

The sites I look at show it as jakes goal last night

 

anyone can confirm this?

 

[DIBdaQUIB]

Glad to see Jake starting to find his game in the AHL.  IN hindsight, it is probably where he would have developed best.  So many expectations and temptations being a 19 year old in the NHL, many just struggle with perspective.

I hope he can continue to develop with the Comets because he has some very impressive talents that could translate very well to the NHL game.