Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[guntrix]

11 hours ago, J.R. said:

Demko also has more points than Boeser in the AHL, clearly Boeser is a bust too, right? 

 

Am I CDC'ing right now? 

 

You're trying too hard. Qualms surrounding Jake are warranted given how he's played so far. You should actually watch the Comets before curling up in your shell and hurling the 'typical CDC' rhetoric. 

 

Boeser will also be judged based on his development in the AHL and NHL. I hope, for this organization's sake, that's it's not as regressive as Jake's. 

[guntrix]

12 hours ago, J.R. said:

I'm not sure why people are so obsessed with this being the case? Who was honestly expecting that from a 6th overall? !

 

At 6th overall you hope for a solid top 9 player. If you manage a legit 'star', it's considered pretty damn lucky. 

 

I'd say anyone expecting something like an 'Ovie' says a lot more about this fanbase's out of whack expectations than it does about Virtanen or his somewhat rocky development path so far. 

 

There's nothing wrong with him eventually developing in to a big, fast, tough and complimentary offense guy which is still easily within reach with some good development the next 2-3 years. 

 

It may not be as 'sexy' as a smaller, slick sniper but those guys can and do help win cups. 

I don't think he's ever been compared to Ovie in he slightest. The whole problem with this pick was the fact that we could've missed out on a cornerstone franchise player that would've accelerated the rebuild (yes, Nylander and Ehlers are headed that way no matter how hard it hurts to acknowledge it)... to make it worse, there's little hindsight to this observation.

 

When we first drafted him, one of the first excuses was his shoulder injury (quite laughably, it's still being used today in some aspects). 

 

Next, people were saying that he was a "power forward" (using CDC's very own parameters for what constituted a power forward) and that he would take longer to develop.

 

Once proven that most "power forwards" show early signs of elite skill (despite not being as productive), people have moved onto comparing him to the best late-blooming power forward they could think of. In this case, Ladd. 

 

But alas, expectations will keep being lowered, as they should. Few see Virtanen as a plausible top-6 forward anymore, as initially projected by many on here (you know who you are). Soon, we'll consider Virtanen making the NHL as a fourth line bit-part player a success. 

 

Again, this is not Virtanen's fault; He can only do so much. This is not Willie's fault either; nor Green's. This is Benning's fault.

 

As has been said before by many historians, history has a tendency of repeating itself. Benning was disastrous drafting in the first round with Buffalo - it's happening again with the Canucks. The one thing I'll give him is that he's very good at finding diamonds in the rough in the latter rounds. However, with the Sedins on the decline, we need to find our next first and second liners, and the best opportunity of doing that is through the first round. 

[Sean Monahan]

@guntrix he's had three first round picks- you're ready to call Juolevi and Boeser "disastrous"? Hate to cherry pick from your comment but I had to pick on that 

[messier's_elbow]

33 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

@guntrix he's had three first round picks- you're ready to call Juolevi and Boeser "disastrous"? Hate to cherry pick from your comment but I had to pick on that 

4. McCann. 

[guntrix]

42 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

@guntrix he's had three first round picks- you're ready to call Juolevi and Boeser "disastrous"? Hate to cherry pick from your comment but I had to pick on that 

I think we should gauge his performance in a few years on all four of Boeser, Juolevi, Virtanen and McCann + whoever else he drafts. It's not looking too good for the latter two atm. 

[RetroCanuck]

 

6 minutes ago, guntrix said:

I think we should gauge his performance in a few years on all four of Boeser, Juolevi, Virtanen and McCann + whoever else he drafts. It's not looking too good for the latter two atm. 

Well Boeser looks like a great pick. Juolevi a good pick right now. Demko a great one for a 2nd. I think the Canucks rushed both Virtanen and McCann in to satisfy fans wants and thats hurt their development currently. I do think that no matter what, Virtanen will be an NHL player for us. Even if that is in a few years as a third liner. But however it works it definitely beats Gillises drafting. Gillis managed Horvat(thank god haha) and Gaunce...thats about it for his first round picks. In my mind Benning has drafted more NHLers in two years then Gillis in 5.

[Sean Monahan]

11 minutes ago, guntrix said:

I think we should gauge his performance in a few years on all four of Boeser, Juolevi, Virtanen and McCann + whoever else he drafts. It's not looking too good for the latter two atm. 

Touché, missed McCann. I still think McCann will be s solid NHL player which is about all you can ask for at the end of the first round. It just doesn't look like he'll be the star so many CDC'ers thought he'd be a couple of years ago.

[guntrix]

23 minutes ago, RetroCanuck said:

 

Well Boeser looks like a great pick. Juolevi a good pick right now. Demko a great one for a 2nd. I think the Canucks rushed both Virtanen and McCann in to satisfy fans wants and thats hurt their development currently. I do think that no matter what, Virtanen will be an NHL player for us. Even if that is in a few years as a third liner. But however it works it definitely beats Gillises drafting. Gillis managed Horvat(thank god haha) and Gaunce...thats about it for his first round picks. In my mind Benning has drafted more NHLers in two years then Gillis in 5.

We can't be sure about that last statement until we see how they pan out. Tbf to Gillis, he showed improvement up until the 2013 draft (coinciding with his look into analytics). His 2013 draft alone looked like a home run with Horvat, Shinkaruk, Cederholm, Subban and Cassels. We saw first-hand though how picks rarely reach their hype/potential. 

Edited January 16, 2017 by guntrix

[sam13371337]

travis green is desperate to get his shot as an NHL coach.  

 

He's actually very close to landing one if media reports are to be believed. and him turning around the career of a failing top 6 pick would be a great accomplishment to put on the resume. guaranteed to land him the canuck job (in case willy is freed), or a job elsewhere. 

 

so green is going to go around all year saying how amazing jake virtanen is coming along, the next bertuzzi (with a sprinkle of gretzky) in the making!!!111!

 

but the numbers dont lie.  Period.  the guy is supposed to be a scoring power forward, and hes simply not scoring. not in the not in the NHL, and disturbingly not even in the AHL.  

 

if that doesnt raise serious alarm bells for anyone about this prospect (in addition to his character issues, low hockey IQ, and lack of heart) then you are beyond being in denial. Reminds me of the "this is fine" meme....

 

a busted pick.  Made even more painful when one considers who went after him.  As Burke said,  You HAVE to get those top picks right if you want to get anywhere in this league. it is just simply a monumental failure on Bennings/Lindens part.  

[RetroCanuck]

6 minutes ago, guntrix said:

We can't be sure about that last statement until we see how they pan out. Tbf to Gillis, he showed improvement up until the 2013 draft (coinciding with his look into analytics). His 2013 draft alone looked like a home run with Horvat, Shinkaruk, Cederholm, Subban and Cassels. We saw first-hand though how picks rarely reach their hype/potential. 

True but Bennings 2014 and 2015 draft has already showed some real NHL talent. 2014- Tryamkin looks well on his way to being an NHLer for years(Only question is conditioning but that improves with age) Demko- Future #1starter if you talk to any scout. Forsling-Showing he most likely will be NHL calibre already at age 20. Virtanen- will be an NHL player. Whether thats first second or third line. McCann-has the talent..just needs the attitude. 2015- Boeser..enough said. Brisebois-looking like a leader and at the very least 3rdpair depth Dman. Neill-Lighting it up but might not translate. Zhukenov, Jasek, Olsen all can still be NHL players. <^^< that is good drafting. You know that there are at LEAST 4 guaranteed NHLers in Tram, Demko, Boeser, Virtanen. In two years Benning already has more NHL draft pick NHLers then Gillis.

[Phat Fingers]

6 hours ago, guntrix said:

I don't think he's ever been compared to Ovie in he slightest. The whole problem with this pick was the fact that we could've missed out on a cornerstone franchise player that would've accelerated the rebuild (yes, Nylander and Ehlers are headed that way no matter how hard it hurts to acknowledge it)... to make it worse, there's little hindsight to this observation.

 

When we first drafted him, one of the first excuses was his shoulder injury (quite laughably, it's still being used today in some aspects). 

 

Next, people were saying that he was a "power forward" (using CDC's very own parameters for what constituted a power forward) and that he would take longer to develop.

 

Once proven that most "power forwards" show early signs of elite skill (despite not being as productive), people have moved onto comparing him to the best late-blooming power forward they could think of. In this case, Ladd. 

 

But alas, expectations will keep being lowered, as they should. Few see Virtanen as a plausible top-6 forward anymore, as initially projected by many on here (you know who you are). Soon, we'll consider Virtanen making the NHL as a fourth line bit-part player a success. 

 

Again, this is not Virtanen's fault; He can only do so much. This is not Willie's fault either; nor Green's. This is Benning's fault.

 

As has been said before by many historians, history has a tendency of repeating itself. Benning was disastrous drafting in the first round with Buffalo - it's happening again with the Canucks. The one thing I'll give him is that he's very good at finding diamonds in the rough in the latter rounds. However, with the Sedins on the decline, we need to find our next first and second liners, and the best opportunity of doing that is through the first round. 

 

6 hours ago, guntrix said:

I don't think he's ever been compared to Ovie in he slightest. The whole problem with this pick was the fact that we could've missed out on a cornerstone franchise player that would've accelerated the rebuild (yes, Nylander and Ehlers are headed that way no matter how hard it hurts to acknowledge it)... to make it worse, there's little hindsight to this observation.

 

When we first drafted him, one of the first excuses was his shoulder injury (quite laughably, it's still being used today in some aspects). 

 

Next, people were saying that he was a "power forward" (using CDC's very own parameters for what constituted a power forward) and that he would take longer to develop.

 

Once proven that most "power forwards" show early signs of elite skill (despite not being as productive), people have moved onto comparing him to the best late-blooming power forward they could think of. In this case, Ladd. 

 

But alas, expectations will keep being lowered, as they should. Few see Virtanen as a plausible top-6 forward anymore, as initially projected by many on here (you know who you are). Soon, we'll consider Virtanen making the NHL as a fourth line bit-part player a success. 

 

Again, this is not Virtanen's fault; He can only do so much. This is not Willie's fault either; nor Green's. This is Benning's fault.

 

As has been said before by many historians, history has a tendency of repeating itself. Benning was disastrous drafting in the first round with Buffalo - it's happening again with the Canucks. The one thing I'll give him is that he's very good at finding diamonds in the rough in the latter rounds. However, with the Sedins on the decline, we need to find our next first and second liners, and the best opportunity of doing that is through the first round. 

 

Guntrix. 

 

IMO it is way to early to say that Nylander and Ehlers are going to be cornerstone franchise players. Ehlers maybe.  The Jets have a good bunch of young talent, hard to say who is the generator of offense, Ehlers or his linemates. 

 

 I do believe that Nylander is overrated and will look good riding the coat tails of Mathews and Marner. Of the 3, he is definitely a 3rd wheel.  

 

The Buffalo draft was a huge success 

 

 

Benning's first draft was an absolute success, the club walked away with legit NHL takent with 5 players from that draft. Yea 2 were traded, but so far, here is the return. 

 

Jake, at minimum becomes a Raffi Torres type player that scores an average of 15 goals a season. Not earth shattering, unless he hits you. There is no reason not to believe this to be his floor. 

 

Time with Green is what he needs to get there or surpass this. How does one pass on a 210 lbs 45 goal scorer who can skate faster than any other player in his draft year. Especially a local kid. 

 

I hope you are dead wrong on Jake.  I see him as a 20/20 guy as a LW that generates space for his linemates and scares the bejesus out of opponents. He has not followed the usual path of development, so standard metrics don't really work. 

 

McCann turned into Guds.  

Win. 

 

 

Demko is is going to be better than Schnieder. That is my opinion. Win 

 

Trymakin might be the best pick from this draft if he can become the next Chara.  Win. 

 

Forsling. Traded for a bag of pucks.... Oops. But we do have a Sutter, so not a total loss. Win turned into a give away. 

 

One or or two of the late picks also look promissing. Olsen may pan out, but way to early to tell. 

 

All in all, JB's first draft was the best draft this organization had in over ten years. 

 

EW

[Toews]

1 hour ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

 

 

Guntrix. 

 

IMO it is way to early to say that Nylander and Ehlers are going to be cornerstone franchise players. Ehlers maybe.  The Jets have a good bunch of young talent, hard to say who is the generator of offense, Ehlers or his linemates. 

 

 I do believe that Nylander is overrated and will look good riding the coat tails of Mathews and Marner. Of the 3, he is definitely a 3rd wheel.  

 

The Buffalo draft was a huge success 

 

 

Benning's first draft was an absolute success, the club walked away with legit NHL takent with 5 players from that draft. Yea 2 were traded, but so far, here is the return. 

 

Jake, at minimum becomes a Raffi Torres type player that scores an average of 15 goals a season. Not earth shattering, unless he hits you. There is no reason not to believe this to be his floor. 

 

Time with Green is what he needs to get there or surpass this. How does one pass on a 210 lbs 45 goal scorer who can skate faster than any other player in his draft year. Especially a local kid. 

 

I hope you are dead wrong on Jake.  I see him as a 20/20 guy as a LW that generates space for his linemates and scares the bejesus out of opponents. He has not followed the usual path of development, so standard metrics don't really work. 

 

McCann turned into Guds.  

Win. 

 

 

Demko is is going to be better than Schnieder. That is my opinion. Win 

 

Trymakin might be the best pick from this draft if he can become the next Chara.  Win. 

 

Forsling. Traded for a bag of pucks.... Oops. But we do have a Sutter, so not a total loss. Win turned into a give away. 

 

One or or two of the late picks also look promissing. Olsen may pan out, but way to early to tell. 

 

All in all, JB's first draft was the best draft this organization had in over ten years. 

 

EW

Having watched both of those guys this year I would dispute that either are riding anyone's coattails. Nylander doesn't play with Matthews or Marner 5v5. He did play with Matthews at the start of the year but has since been moved to the shutdown line. Ehlers has played quite a lot of minutes with Scheifele and Laine but he isn't riding their success, he is very much capable of generating his own offense. This is evident when Maurice switches up the lines and Ehlers manages to create chances and produce with Little and Wheeler as well. As of now Nylander is on pace for 57 points and Ehlers 69 points, I would be ecstatic if a 20 year old was giving you that kind of production.

 

I agree with you that JB's first draft does look promising but its still way too early to tell how things look a few years from now. I do see star potential in Demko but projecting goaltending is always risky.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Toews

[Phat Fingers]

1 minute ago, The 5th Line said:

This is all just wishful thinking, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously? 

 

"Demko is going to be better than Schneider, that is my opinion.  Win"   Like really?   

 

Other teams' players are playing like stars but you for whatever reason you are calling them overrated and say they aren't the drivers of their teams offense.  Jake is barely a 5/5 guy in the AHL but he somehow will at least become a 20/20 guy who scares defenders?  Okay what has he shown you to make you think that?  The answer is nothing.

 

 

 

 

Just for the record 5th, I don't take you seriously. 

 

Your doom and gloom projections are no different. What makes you think Jake will be so bad.  Stats you say, but ignore his odd development path.  At the same time you also dismiss Demko who has put up better numbers than Schieder at the same age for the same teams in a similar situation.  Easy to compare Demko to Schnieder.  

 

So for you, stats only matter when it is negative. You have nothing to prove your point, but your opinion. 

I state my opinion as that, you claim to have knowledge of things that have not yet happened. 

 

 

The irony in your constant negativity is hilarious, it will only get more funny in time as young players come into the system and literally prove you wrong. Then we can bring up post after post, thread after thread. 

 

Look ok on the bright side for a while.  If I'm right, the team rebounds and becomes decent to watch in two to three years, if your right, the team will suck forever.  

 

Block me I don't care. 

 

EW. 

[Warhippy]

46 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

Stat watching?  I watched him with the Hitmen and he was nothing special, been watching him in the AHL and he's nothing special, watched him at the WJHC and it was an absolute disaster, watched him in the NHL and he was awful.  I'm using the eye test for Jake and he has failed miserably, how can anyone disagree with this?  

 

Why did you call me a stat watcher but then go on to say Demko will be better than Schneider because his numbers are better than Cory's were at this age...?  You are clearly the only one stat watching here and you can't seem to take your eyes off Jake's 45 goal junior season 

 

I guess i'm negative because I'm reasonable and realistic.  

You're negative because you've all but written off a child.  You're negative because you're proud to have been endlessly saying how terrible he is then every 4th post go, but I wish him well

 

You're posts are the equivalent of this

 

He wasn't my pick and I hope he gets cancer but I wish him the best

 

You cannot pretend for even a second you've been ANYTHING but negative in regards to Virtanen.  Claim "OH but I was right" all you want, your negativity is everything that is wrong with this fan base

[Zhukini]

14 hours ago, sam13371337 said:

travis green is desperate to get his shot as an NHL coach.  

 

He's actually very close to landing one if media reports are to be believed. and him turning around the career of a failing top 6 pick would be a great accomplishment to put on the resume. guaranteed to land him the canuck job (in case willy is freed), or a job elsewhere. 

 

so green is going to go around all year saying how amazing jake virtanen is coming along, the next bertuzzi (with a sprinkle of gretzky) in the making!!!111!

 

but the numbers dont lie.  Period.  the guy is supposed to be a scoring power forward, and hes simply not scoring. not in the not in the NHL, and disturbingly not even in the AHL.  

 

if that doesnt raise serious alarm bells for anyone about this prospect (in addition to his character issues, low hockey IQ, and lack of heart) then you are beyond being in denial. Reminds me of the "this is fine" meme....

 

a busted pick.  Made even more painful when one considers who went after him.  As Burke said,  You HAVE to get those top picks right if you want to get anywhere in this league. it is just simply a monumental failure on Bennings/Lindens part.  

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but it's simply too early, you could have made this same arguement about Anthony Mantha after his first year in the AHL and look At him now.

 

He's not doing well this year, there's no denying it, but to an extent, it was expected. I think Jake will be in the AHL next year too and that's when the numbers need to tell the story, not a nice comment or two from the coach.

[Toews]

1 hour ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Your doom and gloom projections are no different. What makes you think Jake will be so bad.  Stats you say, but ignore his odd development path.  At the same time you also dismiss Demko who has put up better numbers than Schieder at the same age for the same teams in a similar situation.  Easy to compare Demko to Schnieder. 

Its not about dismissing Demko. I think everyone is excited about his potential but its just that... potential. There is a big jump from college hockey to the AHL and subsequently another jump from the AHL to the NHL. There are many examples of guys coming out of college or even junior with sparkling numbers but they don't manage to live up to expectations. So lets push the brakes before saying he is going to be better than Schneider. Goaltending is the hardest position to project precisely because it takes years of development before most goalies are ready to play in the NHL and do well.

[funkyfresh]

Watching his draft highlights again and I can't help but be optimistic. The power, speed, and finish, it's all there. I have been pretty down on him since he was drafted but I really hope.he can turn it around; players like him can make the game so much more fun to watch.

 

 

[Dekey Pete]

Highlights from Utica's January 11th game.  Like many of you, I'm stuck with these short highlight packages to see how our prospects are playing.  I must say though, Jake is a very noticeable player (in a good way) this past game.  He's playing like a big, fast winger, using his skills to his advantage and it looks like he's got some confidence.  Now of course his challenge will be to carry this into the next game, and the game after that and so on.  The kid still has a ton of potential.

 

 

 

[HomeBrew]

Virtanen is actually looking pretty good in that highlight reel! He is using his speed really effectively, as the announcers themselves point out, to the point that he is making other players look quite slow out on the ice. He is getting several good looks at the net with his shots, but is not converting yet. It is evident though that he does not have good chemistry with his line-mates yet, and he still has not figured out the positional game entirely. However, if he can keep this up, the game will turn in his favour pretty soon. 

 

For a 20 year old in the AHL, I would say I am still pretty excited about what he can bring in the future. 

[Mackcanuck]

/Cam Robinson/ ‏@CrazyJoeDavola3  1m1 minute ago

Easy to look at box scores and deduce that Jake Virtanen is playing poorly in Utica. He's skating and engaging but results aren't there yet