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57 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

I found this out after criticizing Tryamkins wife.  It turns out that she speaks better English than he does and that she is also very smart.  She has a post graduate degree in Russia (Masters, I presume, don't know her field) and like so many others, would have to requalify in Canada because the degree isn't recognized.  She certainly doesn't sound like the home body type.

 

So, I think the wife factor is an important one here, but they were both having a hard time adjusting and being away from their family and friends who support them.  Yekaterinberg is a full 12 hour time difference.

 

On the way Willie developed Tryamkin, I think the results speak for themselves.  He showed up at camp out of shape and was told in no uncertain terms that he wouldn't play until he was NHL fit.  He bought in to this and worked very hard.  Once he was playing, we saw a gradual improvement and increase in ice time throughout the year.  He's raw, but there is talent there and has lots of potential.  It's unfortunate that he has gone back to Russia because we have no idea how his development will progress there.

 

It would be great if he came back in a couple years but I'm not counting on it.  

Good post. My take on "home body" is nothing to do with intelligence/academic qualifications but someone who prefers familiar surroundings and people. Anyway I doubt we will ever know what actually happened but homesickness certainly seems to be a contributing factor.

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2 hours ago, alfstonker said:

What are you actually saying? Tryamkin's ATOI was nearly 17mins and he didn't play on the PP. How did he deserve more?

 

You say you blame Benning but you don't even know what arrangements were made for the wife and you don't know if she even accepted them.

 

Who mentioned fighting? He wasn't asked to fight as far as I know. He was asked to put Marchand "in his pocket" Tryamkin also said his idol was Chara but he wanted to be better than him eventually. Did/does he know anything about Chara's style of play? Obviously not. Bottom line, he was partly drafted for his size and ability to use that size to intimidate. It's the NHL for goodness sake.

 

You then say the wife was missing her family but point out that plane travel was cheap. There is no reason why she could not have had her family visit when he was on long road trips.

 

The bottom line for me is Tryamkin made a mistake coming over after he was married. His wife seems to be a "home bird" and he should have discussed all the pros and cons before coming. He himself didn't seem to learn the language very well or certainly didn't have the confidence to use what he knew. How was that going to help her when they were going out in Vancouver?

None of that justifies the way he seemed to want to blame everyone else but himself like a big spoilt kid. If he has any sense he will have enrolled himself and his wife in English speaking classes in Russia and has another bite at the biscuit in 2 years time.

 

Do these boards EVER TIRE of trying to pin blame on this Club, the coaches, management and owners.

Chara might have been Tryamkin's model but you have to wonder how closely he watched Chara's game. Chara has been a physical force for decades. Mitchell wanting a physical game in response to an opposing team taking liberties is not out of line. What I saw in Tryamkin was a d-man who played a tough game but usually in response to other players. The Gudbranson injury probably hurt Tryamkin's development as Guddy could have helped his game. This is not about fighting. 

 

If Tryamkin is not emotionally invested in being in the NHL then the Canucks are lucky to have that known now.  The Canucks will likely be drafting in the high picks for a couple of more years. Time to find that d prospect that can play. I thought Tryamkin made a lot of progress this past season and that he could have challenged for a top 4 spot. He will get another look when he decides to come back but the depth might by-pass him in the mean time. The KHL is not close to the NHL and he will have to be very focused to continue his development. 

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28 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Chara might have been Tryamkin's model but you have to wonder how closely he watched Chara's game. Chara has been a physical force for decades. Mitchell wanting a physical game in response to an opposing team taking liberties is not out of line. What I saw in Tryamkin was a d-man who played a tough game but usually in response to other players. The Gudbranson injury probably hurt Tryamkin's development as Guddy could have helped his game. This is not about fighting. 

 

If Tryamkin is not emotionally invested in being in the NHL then the Canucks are lucky to have that known now.  The Canucks will likely be drafting in the high picks for a couple of more years. Time to find that d prospect that can play. I thought Tryamkin made a lot of progress this past season and that he could have challenged for a top 4 spot. He will get another look when he decides to come back but the depth might by-pass him in the mean time. The KHL is not close to the NHL and he will have to be very focused to continue his development. 

I posted on you quote Boudrias, but CC and Alfstonker  all made good points.....I had no idea about his wife's English, but to say what I have heard via radio and some posters, so I am bad for that reference...........

 

But the point I am getting to is that, it just appeared that The Canucks did not have a good game plan going into their development of Tryamkin......this is a kid who, probably had a lot of fears coming to a strange country and strange league, to play with the world's best, including knowing his fears of being sent down, which I think he addressed when he declined to go down to the AHL

 

In his country that may mean something entirely different, and there might not be a lot of trust, when they are given promises like that there....was the contract a 2 way, and was he going to receive less money for going down....what was Benning.s contract offer?

 

I think there are a lot of different personalities and circumstances involved and they could have done better.....my gut feeling.......

 

I did not like seeing him go, but don't blame him.....I am just worried that when we get him back, if ever, he hasn't developed.....we will see

 

 

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On 8/25/2017 at 9:20 AM, Rollieo Del Fuego said:

Ya...for a boatload of draft picks...meaning they lose a first liner just when they get to a "finals" caliber team and we have a hard-nosed 2nd-3rd liner in Jake ready to mow down boatloads of smaller/slower guys....

When they already have Matthews and Marner, plus their other supporting cast, being in a cap crunch but being able to trade someone of Nylander's abilities is a pretty good spot to be in. Chicago used that to be successful for multiple cup runs. Nylander - if he continues to play as he has been - could garner not only picks but also likely a solid prospect on an ELC that can easily slot into a playoff lineup. I'm ok with that over having a player finally being able to contribute.

 

But Tryamkin. It was definitely not about the money. Family, his wife, maybe a little bit lost outside of Russia himself causing confusion, all of those factored into him going back. It was not about the coach (who was fired and a new coach incoming) or his playing time (which was reasonable and expected to expand with losing Sbisa to expansion) or anything else the Canucks could have done. His teammates tried to include him (see Hutton and others references to inviting him out) and help him yet he still chose a contract in the KHL.

 

He was keen in the draft interviews to play in the NHL (as t.d willfully ignored in his troll job) and still sounds like he wants the opportunity. We may see after 2 years that he opts out of his last year, or he waits the full three and then returns. We may see further contraction in the KHL, with his team among the rumours, and him coming back early anyway. I can see him wanting to be close to home as a factor, but if he has to swap teams to one on the other side of the KHL it might not be so attractive an option.

 

Talking about a free player at the right time though, he would be one.

Edited by elvis15
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Wow, he mentioned the Olympics... That could be a big pull for a young man. If he had no chance to make the team while playing in the NHL, I can see why a proud Russian would want to have a chance to play for his country. The 3-year deal was probably pushed by Motorist to ensure he didn't bolt back to the NHL after one season. I still think he will come back. He's a competitive guy, and there is nothing like playing in the best league in the world.

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3 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Maybe we can buy him out of the remainder of his Automobilist contract after the olympics ...has that ever been done before? Buyout a KHL contract?

I have never heard whether Tryamkin has a 'opt out' clause in his KHL contract for a possible return to the NHL before his 3 year contract expires. Many such clauses in KHL contracts. His agent would have been a fool not to have insisted on that option. He will always be an attractive prospect because of his size but his position on the depth chart for Vancouver very likely deteriorates over time.  

 

Tryamkin's NHL rights could become a chip for Benning to deal in the future.

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2 hours ago, Boudrias said:

I have never heard whether Tryamkin has a 'opt out' clause in his KHL contract for a possible return to the NHL before his 3 year contract expires. Many such clauses in KHL contracts. His agent would have been a fool not to have insisted on that option. He will always be an attractive prospect because of his size but his position on the depth chart for Vancouver very likely deteriorates over time.  

 

Tryamkin's NHL rights could become a chip for Benning to deal in the future.

With more experience and a good olympics I'm sure his value would just keep increasing.

Nevertheless, I'd much rather keep him.

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5 hours ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said:

That used to be the "norm" here....before kids got smart and refused to grow up and leave home....

Don't forget exponential taxing with stagnant wages. I don't blame today's youth for the current society we've seen evolve.

 

I wouldn't want to be in my teens/twentys today.

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1 hour ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Don't forget exponential taxing with stagnant wages. I don't blame today's youth for the current society we've seen evolve.

 

I wouldn't want to be in my teens/twentys today.

That's true....only the Pro sports people are better off now....the world is in a desperate situation....as usual....just from mounting sides...including the Old WW3 one.

 

World politics in the Tryamkin thread...sort of fits.

 

I hope we can coax him back soon, we don't have a replacement unless Pedan suddenly "gets it".

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On 8/26/2017 at 6:11 PM, janisahockeynut said:

I posted on you quote Boudrias, but CC and Alfstonker  all made good points.....I had no idea about his wife's English, but to say what I have heard via radio and some posters, so I am bad for that reference...........

 

But the point I am getting to is that, it just appeared that The Canucks did not have a good game plan going into their development of Tryamkin......this is a kid who, probably had a lot of fears coming to a strange country and strange league, to play with the world's best, including knowing his fears of being sent down, which I think he addressed when he declined to go down to the AHL

 

In his country that may mean something entirely different, and there might not be a lot of trust, when they are given promises like that there....was the contract a 2 way, and was he going to receive less money for going down....what was Benning.s contract offer?

 

I think there are a lot of different personalities and circumstances involved and they could have done better.....my gut feeling.......

 

I did not like seeing him go, but don't blame him.....I am just worried that when we get him back, if ever, he hasn't developed.....we will see

 

 

Firstly I think Tryamkin is a lot more savvy than he liked to give out. Insisting on an interpreter all the time when some of the players hinted his English was coming along. I recall when he was in his first season I alluded to him being possible club captain material, purely because his conviction was so strong and he seemed to know his own mind and didn't mind stating it.

 

Also with regard to the AHL I got a completely different impression. 

His wish to stay in the NHL was never questioned contractually imo because I understood it was a condition to coming over that he would not have to play in the AHL. However when it was discovered he was so badly out of condition I said at the time I was surprised his state of fitness was not made part of the condition that he would not go to the AHL.

When the Canucks realised what state he was in, I think they genuinely only suggested he go to the AHL for a spell as a way of helping him - he on the other hand seemed to view it as some kind of breach to what was agreed. That attitude of suspicion (imo) was another factor indicating a pretty savvy hard nosed individual.

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1 hour ago, alfstonker said:

Firstly I think Tryamkin is a lot more savvy than he liked to give out. Insisting on an interpreter all the time when some of the players hinted his English was coming along. I recall when he was in his first season I alluded to him being possible club captain material, purely because his conviction was so strong and he seemed to know his own mind and didn't mind stating it.

 

Also with regard to the AHL I got a completely different impression. 

His wish to stay in the NHL was never questioned contractually imo because I understood it was a condition to coming over that he would not have to play in the AHL. However when it was discovered he was so badly out of condition I said at the time I was surprised his state of fitness was not made part of the condition that he would not go to the AHL.

When the Canucks realised what state he was in, I think they genuinely only suggested he go to the AHL for a spell as a way of helping him - he on the other hand seemed to view it as some kind of breach to what was agreed. That attitude of suspicion (imo) was another factor indicating a pretty savvy hard nosed individual.

Who comes to a NHL camp not fit? Tryamkin had already played what, 3 seasons of KHL? That whole scenario never made sense to me. Did Tryamkin think he was in KHL shape and thusly in NHL shape? By all reports he shed the weight quickly which implys he knew he was not in shape.  

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5 hours ago, alfstonker said:

Firstly I think Tryamkin is a lot more savvy than he liked to give out. Insisting on an interpreter all the time when some of the players hinted his English was coming along. I recall when he was in his first season I alluded to him being possible club captain material, purely because his conviction was so strong and he seemed to know his own mind and didn't mind stating it.

 

Also with regard to the AHL I got a completely different impression. 

His wish to stay in the NHL was never questioned contractually imo because I understood it was a condition to coming over that he would not have to play in the AHL. However when it was discovered he was so badly out of condition I said at the time I was surprised his state of fitness was not made part of the condition that he would not go to the AHL.

When the Canucks realised what state he was in, I think they genuinely only suggested he go to the AHL for a spell as a way of helping him - he on the other hand seemed to view it as some kind of breach to what was agreed. That attitude of suspicion (imo) was another factor indicating a pretty savvy hard nosed individual.

Again  both you and Bourdain make good points and I agree he wasn't  in good shape.....but I think he was still playing as good as other despite his condition........also on the contract issue.......I totally think that it depends on your interpretation  of what good faith is.....for some it is a deal is a deal.....others think it is flexible....If I was a 3 year KHL vet, and found myself knowing I was better than some even though I was out of shape...I may just say nyet....and thanks I will play myself into shape...which is what he did, and to my recollection, he didn't take that long, all the while handling himself as good as anyone not named Tanev.

 

Let me ask you guys a question....Maybe I am out to lunch....but did he look any worse than Hutton or Edler....Really?  If he was there at the beginning, he sure fixed himself quick?

 

If at the end of last season the question was who do you keep Hutton or Tryamkin which would you Take?  And I like Hutton...

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1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said:

It seems the further away from end of last season, the more legendary this player becomes.   If he doesn't return to NHL, in three or four years it will be "Norris lock Tryamkin was forced from NHL" and similar.    Kid had some upside but he is neither a lock for Olympic team (even without NHL players going), was developing fine but still had a lot to learn about NHL game and may never have "learned it", and clearly he had some other issues in his head which he feels he could better handle in Russia which doesn't make him as focused as you would like.    This wasn't Bobby Orr everyone - he was a nice find in the third round that had a decent shot at becoming an everyday NHL player but was not the second coming of anyone.   

Still see him as a great ingredient to add, after the team 'turns the corner' to become a younger, rising force.

 

There's no reason Try can't keep developing where he is, as the Canucks do the same. Then 1.5 to 2 yrs later, perhaps the timing could fit nicely.

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9 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Who comes to a NHL camp not fit? Tryamkin had already played what, 3 seasons of KHL? That whole scenario never made sense to me. Did Tryamkin think he was in KHL shape and thusly in NHL shape? By all reports he shed the weight quickly which implys he knew he was not in shape.  

I think he said somewhere that he overdid his honeymoon and wedding celebrations. I actually thought he thought he would still be put in the team but WD wasn't having that so he knuckled down and as Willie said, worked hard to get back into shape.

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5 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Again  both you and Bourdain make good points and I agree he wasn't  in good shape.....but I think he was still playing as good as other despite his condition........also on the contract issue.......I totally think that it depends on your interpretation  of what good faith is.....for some it is a deal is a deal.....others think it is flexible....If I was a 3 year KHL vet, and found myself knowing I was better than some even though I was out of shape...I may just say nyet....and thanks I will play myself into shape...which is what he did, and to my recollection, he didn't take that long, all the while handling himself as good as anyone not named Tanev.

 

Let me ask you guys a question....Maybe I am out to lunch....but did he look any worse than Hutton or Edler....Really?  If he was there at the beginning, he sure fixed himself quick?

 

If at the end of last season the question was who do you keep Hutton or Tryamkin which would you Take?  And I like Hutton...

I think he did look out of shape. In fact I think I posted on here about it. The point is he also admitted it. He may have thought he masked it in the training camp but I doubt it having seen videos of the tests they are put through. Also he was kidding himself if he thought he could fool vets like WD and Lidster.

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7 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Again  both you and Bourdain make good points and I agree he wasn't  in good shape.....but I think he was still playing as good as other despite his condition........also on the contract issue.......I totally think that it depends on your interpretation  of what good faith is.....for some it is a deal is a deal.....others think it is flexible....If I was a 3 year KHL vet, and found myself knowing I was better than some even though I was out of shape...I may just say nyet....and thanks I will play myself into shape...which is what he did, and to my recollection, he didn't take that long, all the while handling himself as good as anyone not named Tanev.

 

Let me ask you guys a question....Maybe I am out to lunch....but did he look any worse than Hutton or Edler....Really?  If he was there at the beginning, he sure fixed himself quick?

 

If at the end of last season the question was who do you keep Hutton or Tryamkin which would you Take?  And I like Hutton...

Its kinda like the patients running the asylum. isn't it? 

This is a team sport. What message does it send to the other players, that an NHL rookie obviously out of shape get game time ahead of others working their ass off in the Off season? 

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  • -Vintage Canuck- changed the title to Nikita Tryamkin | #88 | D
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