Knucklehd Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Vey is 23 - he isn't a prospect in the same way - ie. he has played a bunch of NHL games already. He has had 3 seasons in the AHL. He is borderline reclamation project. He couldn't crack the Kings lineup. Now if we can develop him better than they did in LA - by giving him a chance - then great! He should already be penciled in on the 3/4th line so we can see if he can play. Hopefully he can be a steal and we are ahead! Sometimes kids just need a chance, and I'm sure we are all hoping he takes that chance and runs with it. I'd love to see us have to trade some vets off the team the next few years to make room for the young players - but they have to show they can play well enough to be given a chance. You can't gift-wrap them a job, but nor can you expect them to be 100% ready to challenge a vet. That is what the 3rd and 4th lines are for IMHO True, he is a mature prospect in that sense, but has only played 18 games and had trouble cracking a championship line up, so he's been groomed in a winning system as well. So perhaps not a young green rookie, but a rookie with something to prove nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrChill Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Vey is 23 - he isn't a prospect in the same way - ie. he has played a bunch of NHL games already. He has had 3 seasons in the AHL. He is borderline reclamation project. He couldn't crack the Kings lineup. Now if we can develop him better than they did in LA - by giving him a chance - then great! He should already be penciled in on the 3/4th line so we can see if he can play. Hopefully he can be a steal and we are ahead! Sometimes kids just need a chance, and I'm sure we are all hoping he takes that chance and runs with it. I'd love to see us have to trade some vets off the team the next few years to make room for the young players - but they have to show they can play well enough to be given a chance. You can't gift-wrap them a job, but nor can you expect them to be 100% ready to challenge a vet. That is what the 3rd and 4th lines are for IMHO A prospect who is groomed properly is now a reclamation project??? Wow people need to learn more about player development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabinessence Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Horvat will likely get at least the 9 game tryout. What is scary is wondering how good these prospects will be. Yes, they will probably be good calibre players, but will they be good enough to make Vancouver elite? Which is better, having 3 good number 2 centres or 1 bonafide centre and lesser quality number 2s? CBS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyllenhaal Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Vey is 23 - he isn't a prospect in the same way - ie. he has played a bunch of NHL games already. He has had 3 seasons in the AHL. He is borderline reclamation project. He couldn't crack the Kings lineup. 18 games in the NHL isn't a bunch. Calling Vey a reclamation project is basically calling Gustav Nyquist the same thing (which is ridiculous) since he didn't play a full NHL season until this year, at the age of 24. The reason Vey couldn't crack the King's line-up is because of their center depth, Carter, Kopitar, Williams, Stoll. What rookie is going to knock one of those players out of the line-up? LA has done a great job developing Vey and hopefully we can reap the benefits next season. But this thread is about Horvat. I really don't know if he is going to make the team. One more season of Junior wont hurt his development, so hopefully he at least gets nine games so we can see were he is at and if he is ready we can make space for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Kuzma co-hosted on the Team 1040 today and threw out the following suggestion. Why not put Horvat on the wing for the short term? They did this to him for his first year of junior. In this way, he could play 8-10 mins a night on the 4th line and we can see where things go. He won't have the same defensive responsibility as centre and may have to opportunity for spot duty up and down the line up at wing and centre. The question is, where would he benefit more? 22 mins in London vs 8-10 mins in Van In my opinion, he should at least get a look for 9 games with the big club. Then it could be seen if this is a viable option. Several players who they have high hopes for are effectively in the "wait and see" / "show me what you can do" category. These include: Bonino, Vey and Burrows to a degree. This is what internal competition is all about isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrago Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 The time line I see happening is. Vey 2014 13th forward to start works way up by end of year. Jensen 2014 call up 2015 full time. Gaunce 2014 call up 2015 full time. Shinkurak possible call up 2014-2015 full time 2016. Horvat 2016 call up 2017 full time. Virtanen/Mcann 2017 call up 2018 full time. I don't see any of our prospects skipping at least a half a year in the AHL. Then you have to expect 3 years in the NHL before they are consistent performers. Long road ahead of us yet I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimberWolf Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 It's all very well to dream that all our prospects are going to make it this year. The reality is, you can ruin a kid by bringing him in too early. JB himself was a highly touted dman scoring what - 138 points or something like that - was brought in and ruined. We have to set these kids up for success. Bo has another year of junior, so let him finish his junior career. Shin too. Seriously. And don't even think about our picks this year. All these 4 are in the position of: Don't expect it, but if they really are ready, then slot them in. Who should make it - Jensen and Gaunce. Those are the 2 that I am gunning for. These 2 are in the position of: Expect it. Get them in the lineup, even on the 4th line. Give them a chance, because they have been developed (maybe Gaunce could use another year, but Jensen is this year). If it were a perfect world, we would get a new player / 2 every year who could step in and make a difference. Here is a realistic time-line based on letting them play a year in the minors after their junior career (which is actually realistic - not many players can skip a league on their way to the NHL): 2014: Jensen2015: Gaunce2016: Horvat and Shin2017: Virtanen and Mccann Maybe these players could move up one year (gaunce this year, horvat and shin next year, virt and mc the year after)... but they are not going to all play right away. You are reducing every player to an absolute formula while I think every player needs to be evaluated separately. Yes, coming in early screwed Benning but Linden faired pretty well as you may recall. Players are individuals and what may work for one might be counterproductive for another. Also what is the point if you put an actual date on it? "Sorry, Bo and Shink but you were drafted in 2011 to according to this chart you cannot come up for a real tryout till 2016 but keep working hard and we'll look at you then" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asian player Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Kuzma co-hosted on the Team 1040 today and threw out the following suggestion. Why not put Horvat on the wing for the short term? They did this to him for his first year of junior. In this way, he could play 8-10 mins a night on the 4th line and we can see where things go. He won't have the same defensive responsibility as centre and may have to opportunity for spot duty up and down the line up at wing and centre. The question is, where would he benefit more? 22 mins in London vs 8-10 mins in Van In my opinion, he should at least get a look for 9 games with the big club. Then it could be seen if this is a viable option. Several players who they have high hopes for are effectively in the "wait and see" / "show me what you can do" category. These include: Bonino, Vey and Burrows to a degree. This is what internal competition is all about isn't it? he isn't playing 8-10 minutes a night. If he makes it, he'll be playing big boy minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 he isn't playing 8-10 minutes a night. If he makes it, he'll be playing big boy minutes 1. Bo has to earn his minutes like everyone else. 2. Rushing prospects to play and I quote "big boy minutes" is stupid. 3. If Bo does make the team it doesn't mean he will stay on it, he still has to prove he can play well enough to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asian player Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 1. Bo has to earn his minutes like everyone else. 2. Rushing prospects to play and I quote "big boy minutes" is stupid. 3. If Bo does make the team it doesn't mean he will stay on it, he still has to prove he can play well enough to stay. Management seems pretty keen on rolling 4 lines so he'll play more than 10 minutes a game regardless. Also, he isn't fighting for a 4th line job. He'll most likely be fighting for the 3c position. If he beats out one of the veterans for a job in training camp, I don't see how he will be rushed. They'll only give him a spot on the team if he's ready. If he is indeed ready, he will play good minutes against decent competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_The_Schneid! Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Horvat doesn't seem to have that push to elevate his game and impress. He's a solid player but he won't wow you. I keep waiting for him to jump out at me and put himself out there but he seems a little timid. Shinkaruk will impress more, plus we have an abundant amount of centers. The ability to send players like Shinkaruk and Gaunce or Kenins back to Utica make it pretty obvious Horvat won't make the big club this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Management seems pretty keen on rolling 4 lines so he'll play more than 10 minutes a game regardless. Also, he isn't fighting for a 4th line job. He'll most likely be fighting for the 3c position. If he beats out one of the veterans for a job in training camp, I don't see how he will be rushed. They'll only give him a spot on the team if he's ready. If he is indeed ready, he will play good minutes against decent competition. 10 minutes is really good for a 4th liner actually. They usually get around 8ish. I highly doubt any 4th liner gets more than 10 unless the 4th line is having a good night. If Bo beats out a Vet in training camp and then under-performs during the first few games of the regular season he may be back in the CHL. That was my point. Also Bo is competing with Vey, who is a lot further developed, for a roster spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 The part about playing Horvat on the wing seems to be lost. That was the real point. The idea is out of the box thinking and is spit-balling anyways. I thought that it might work because: 1. He won't make 2nd C, and 3 and 4 will be difficult. So, Horvat may be able to earn a spot on the wing more easily. 2. Given that you have to promote the young guys on a case by case basis. A guy who has had lots of responsibility in junior, played in 2 Memorial Cup tournaments, in the World Junior, and shows lots of leadership may benefit much more from 3rd or 4th line minutes (whatever they may be) and watching how real pro's handle themselves, than from a 4th year in junior. Also, he's bigger than the average NHL'er. Of course, it all depends on how things go in camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks35 Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Dude Bo Horvat looks like he's going to be a monster with some high potential. I like that he's put on some size as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks35 Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 The part about playing Horvat on the wing seems to be lost. That was the real point. The idea is out of the box thinking and is spit-balling anyways. I thought that it might work because: 1. He won't make 2nd C, and 3 and 4 will be difficult. So, Horvat may be able to earn a spot on the wing more easily. 2. Given that you have to promote the young guys on a case by case basis. A guy who has had lots of responsibility in junior, played in 2 Memorial Cup tournaments, in the World Junior, and shows lots of leadership may benefit much more from 3rd or 4th line minutes (whatever they may be) and watching how real pro's handle themselves, than from a 4th year in junior. Also, he's bigger than the average NHL'er. Of course, it all depends on how things go in camp. ^^^ THIS... Happens to top center prospects all the time they play on the wing for some time and then move back to their natural position or stay there. That's exactly what they did with Nathan Mckinnon as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groovy Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 If he has not stepped on to nhl ice in a meaningful game by the time he's 20, it may suggest that his full potential is a career 3rd/4th line centre/call-up Hopefully 2nd line eventually, but the point is simply we have loads of 3/4th types. Bo is no way ready for 2nd line and very questionable at 3rd. Why not let him tear it up a bit more offensively for a year and play a leadreship role at the WJC building confidence, leadership experience. Won`t he then arrive next year at 19 hopefully ready to step up? Seems logical unless he has an amazing camp which shows he is ready now, but I don`t expect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I think you might be right, I can't remember the rule for technical status as a rookie. I tend to overlook the players who have NHL experience, so they may have the guy they traded for play. Rookie Qualifications To be considered a rookie, a player must not have played in more than 25 NHL games in any preceding seasons, nor in six or more NHL games in each of any two preceding seasons. Any player at least 26 years of age (by September 15th of that season) is not considered a rookie. http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26377 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 10 minutes is really good for a 4th liner actually. They usually get around 8ish. I highly doubt any 4th liner gets more than 10 unless the 4th line is having a good night. If Bo beats out a Vet in training camp and then under-performs during the first few games of the regular season he may be back in the CHL. That was my point. Also Bo is competing with Vey, who is a lot further developed, for a roster spot. Vey is waiver eligible. They didn't trade a 2nd to put the guy through waivers and lose him for nothing. So he's a lock on the starting roster. The odds are: Horvat back to junior Shink to Utica Jensen to Utica Gaunce to Utica Of those four Jensen likely has the best shot at actually stealing a veterans spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I want Horvat to make the team. But with that being said, if another year in junior helps his development, then I'd rather have him there than with the big club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Horvat will likely get at least the 9 game tryout. Horvat will either make the team or be returned to junior. They won't put a veteran through waivers to give a "tryout". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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