[discussion] Who actually believes a 're-tool' works when the key core players are 35 years old?

[Sbriggs]

The Sedins will be 35 years old when September starts. They've both become playmakers now and are in need of a lot of assistance through scoring depth to see the team succeed as of late. Torts played them a lot 2 seasons ago and they broke. Clearly we cannot expect to win with them as key core players. And yet, some people seem to believe that it's not over and only a re-tooling is needed to see this team win.

I'm not saying trade the Sedins, but how are we to win a cup unless we replace them as key core players? How is a re-tool going to work if the best players on the team are just slowing down?

People say look at Anaheim, they re-tooled on the fly, now look. But Getzlaf and Perry aren't 35 years old. They are 30 years old. They, like Kesler, are in win now mode. The Sedins are in coasting to retirement mode.

Look, we had our time with the Sedins, and it was great. 2008-2012. Great. But it's over. The re-tool phase is over. After watching this team get buried by a young, underskilled Calgary team in the playoffs after a so-called successful regular season, I think it's pretty much said and done that the latest re-tool effort failed.

Again, i'm not saying trade the Sedins, but why is the approach 're-tool' when it's over? Why not admit a rebuild is needed when every coach and GM to come accross this team in years and years has said this team is old and needs to get younger? To me, that doesn't mean RE-TOOL! Holy crow!

Sorry but I didnt need to read past the 1st paragraph to see where this was going. The Sedins? Danial top 10 in scoring. Both Henrick and Danial top 5 in assists. The problem is there surroundings. All teams that re-tool have vets on there team, and who better to have then the Sedins. Maybe after next season they could drop to 2nd line but right now there still bringing it the way they do and to re-tool with guys that complement them like a Bo or Vitanen will help the balance of this team until they choose to retire. But until then I wish Vancouver fans would appreciate what these guys have done here in Vancouver. Dont get me wrong I am ready for a new team but I rather re-tool then re-build and as long as JB continues to bring in the talent to fill the holes we have then Im happy and will have patients.

[elvis15]

Cool. So another retool vs rebuild thread, huh?

[Mathew Barzal]

Doesn't matter.

Endure till the Sedin's retire and we're entering a rebuild anyways, the hard way. Just keep swimming...

[Pete M]

Trade the Sedins for the Stahl brothers (Jordan and Eric)...Sedins can't win in the playoffs with the Canucks and the Stahls can't make the playoffs with Carolina...they both have proven this.

A change of scenery for both may be what both teams are looking for.

[higgyfan]

The Sedins will be 35 years old when September starts. They've both become playmakers now and are in need of a lot of assistance through scoring depth to see the team succeed as of late. Torts played them a lot 2 seasons ago and they broke. Clearly we cannot expect to win with them as key core players. And yet, some people seem to believe that it's not over and only a re-tooling is needed to see this team win.

I'm not saying trade the Sedins, but how are we to win a cup unless we replace them as key core players? How is a re-tool going to work if the best players on the team are just slowing down?

People say look at Anaheim, they re-tooled on the fly, now look. But Getzlaf and Perry aren't 35 years old. They are 30 years old. They, like Kesler, are in win now mode. The Sedins are in coasting to retirement mode.

Look, we had our time with the Sedins, and it was great. 2008-2012. Great. But it's over. The re-tool phase is over. After watching this team get buried by a young, underskilled Calgary team in the playoffs after a so-called successful regular season, I think it's pretty much said and done that the latest re-tool effort failed.

Again, i'm not saying trade the Sedins, but why is the approach 're-tool' when it's over? Why not admit a rebuild is needed when every coach and GM to come accross this team in years and years has said this team is old and needs to get younger? To me, that doesn't mean RE-TOOL! Holy crow!

Getzlaf, Perry and Kesler are teeing of with the Sedins tomorrow at 9am

[Pete M]

Trade the Sedins for the Stahl brothers (Jordan and Eric)...Sedins can't win in the playoffs with the Canucks and the Stahls can't make the playoffs with Carolina...they both have proven this.

A change of scenery for both may be what both teams are looking for.

Let's say this happened...isn't the unknown kind of exciting...just like having unknown rookies making the line up...

However, it is only exciting until you realise what you have...and the excitement continues only if the players meet or exceed expectations.

I think the Canuck's are in a good position with the Sedins, but they need to bring in more young guys to get the benefit of the Sedin mentorship and the defence needs to get better in order to help the Sedins.

Look at the Blackhawks "D", this is why they are going for their 3rd championship in 6 years...it all starts with the "D". Having Kane, Toews, Hossa, Saad and Sharp, also helps their cause.

[Mr.53]

Oh boy…. so much wrong on one page...

Okay, second question: Who believes that a winning culture comes from losing?

What does that mean? We made the playoffs dude. That is developing a winning culture. Just because we didn't make conference finals doesn't mean we aren't developing a winning culture. This Franchise has been in the playoffs for years, then they got bounced and responded by immediately coming back in and giving a hard fought series against Calgary. That's a winning culture. Again, go ask Bo or Kenins about it. The fact that they played significant roles in driving a team into the playoffs and got 6 games of hard battling playoff experience. That's the winning culture Benning is talking about. That's the environment you want.

Dude, only a fan an la-la land doesn't realize that the Sedins have played their best hockey already. This is why re-tooling with the idea of supporting them, at 35 years old, is a waste of time.

Nobody said the Sedins haven't played their best hockey already. They had 100 point seasons. But just because they can't put up 100 points, doesn't mean they can't put up 70. Which they did. Daniel put up 76, and as people have pointed out, only 8 other dudes were able to do that. You want to know their names? Jamie Benn, John Tavares, Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovechkin, Jakub Voracek, Nicklas Backstrom, Tyler Seguin, Jiri Hudler, DANIEL SEDIN. Last time I checked, 70 point players don't grow on trees. How can you call fielding a top 10 scorer a waste of time?

You want to know how to really make this team dangerous. You complement 70 point players, with solid youth scoring. In a year or 2, we could very well see a 60-70 point Sedin, combined with a 50-60 point Bo and maybe a 20 goal scorer Virtanen. You see what I'm saying? Just because the Sedins are 35 does not mean they aren't valuable. Have you ever thought about WHY this team is built around these two guys? BECAUSE IT'S HARD TO FIND GUYS THAT DO WHAT THEY DO. Real life isn't a video game where you can just go and sign all the people you want, draft perfectly, and steal every trade out there. You work with what you've got. The Sedin Twins playing for us is a positive as long as they produce. Why are you acting like they're not?

Basically, everyone understood when Benning dumped Kesler and Garrison. It made sense. Bring in some kids, some youthful energy, the stuff Benning has been saying all season that we needed to do. Maybe even go for a better chance at McDavid?

But then when he brought in Miller and Vrbata, everyone was like wtf? Okay. Re-Tool? Really? With more 35 year olds? Wow.

It made no sense at all. The reward of the re-tooling was what? Building a winning culture by losing to Calgary, following that up with watching Edmonton get McDavid? Not that Calgary and Edmonton are model examples, but if we're CLEARLY on the downtrend and have been since 2011, then who could possibly believe that a re-tool with more old fogies could possibly work?

Everyone is confused. Kassian was confused that his spot was taken by another old dude. Jensen was confused that he had to go back to the AHL again. Markstrom was weirded out when Miller was brought in. Lack is also confused as to why trade talk is circling him. Horvat was lucky, but apparently WD wasn't too happy about giving him a spot. Meanwhile you have Jimbo and the Canucks saying that change is coming and we need to get younger.

Well how about we do that then?

I'll tell you who understood the Vrbata and Miller signings. Everybody but you. Benning clearly said from day 1. He's not interested in the McDavid sweepstakes. That's the whole reason why Linden brought in a guy good at drafting/evaluating young talent. We can go make the playoffs and still draft well. Again, I don't think you quite understand. In real life, people have real families, and real jobs. Aquillinis said last year was unacceptable. Which is why they tossed Gillis or Tortorella. Gillis and Torts literally just got fired for having a horrible season. Benning knows his job is to make playoffs every year, and any year he doesn't he's in the hot seat, as well as WD.

• What's this everyone is confused thing? Kassian got benched and guess what, it worked. The dude was playing decent, until WD benched him a couple times, and it worked great. He came back into the lineup more effective than we've seen in a long time. He just got injured.
• Jensen got sent back down due to lack of work ethic etc. He was -12 on the season, playing for a dominant Utica team. At the beginning of the year, he was like -20 at points and hasn't provided that much offense for Utica. Why should he be playing in a Canucks uniform? And why would you want that? The dude needs to get his act together or he will get shredded in an 82 game season. You don't hand out spots, spots get earned. Bo and Kenins earned their spots, Jensen didn't. Simple as that.
• Markstrom was "weirded out" when Miller was brought in. And again, what was the result? He was the main driving force to Uticas dominance and posted one of the most impressive goaltending years of his career. Next year he's almost guaranteed a job, if not by us, then by someone else, and he will be going in with the most confidence he's ever had. It seriously worked out perfectly.
• Lack is NOT confused why there is trade talk circling him. I don't know why you have that impression. In every interview he says the same thing. He wants to stay here but he gets it. It's a business. He beat out Markstrom for the backup this year, that doesn't guarantee him a spot this year. Again, you have to earn it. Hell if Joaccim Eriksson comes into camp and plays better than Miller, give him the starting job.
• HAHAHAHAHAHAHA at the WD wasn't happy Bo was on the team. HE WAS THRILLED as any coach would be. You misunderstand his quote. He said at first when Benning and Trevor said "hey we got this 19 year old that can do some damage." he pretty much said, "I'll believe it when I see it." and didn't expect much. But after Bo came in, and again, EARNED a spot, it wasn't like WD was sour about it. He was ecstatic and shocked just like most people. Nobody is confused but you dude.

As for the Detroit model, anyone do a head count on prospects brought into their lineup in this past while?

I count 16.

Us?

Like, two. Horvat and Kenins? And they have real problems with Kassian and Jensen. Basically no young players have secure jobs unless they play like vets. What the hell kind of expectation is that? It's insane. You don't see Detroit doing this. You see them getting their young players up to speed.

It's a joke mentioning that we're following the Detroit model.

That is only EXACTLY what we are saying… We brought in 2 prospects to play in the starting lineup this year, not including Linden Vey and Adam Clendening. Detroit practices patience with their prospects. They let them sit until they are full and ready. Look at how long it took Gustav Nyquist to secure a job in the Detroit system. The dude got sent back tot he AHL twice. Detroit waits for their prospects to develop fully, until he point that they can produce like vets, then they insert them into the lineup. Detroit is the exact opposite of franchise that just throws the kids in and lets them play. We are starting a tradition of what Detroit does. Draft well, fully develop your kids, then insert them, and you see dividends.

Well, the entire team mailed it in for the playoffs, and they're the leaders, so there's that.

Lol… no they didn't. They just lost. Just because a team loses, doesn't mean they "mailed it in." It's sports. Even if two teams play 110% one has to lose. We just lost. At least we made playoffs though. 14 other cities can't even say that.

Benning said he'll try to get picks back. Maybe a mulligan on those re-tool players?

You mean the skilled 22 year olds still with the Franchise? Baertschi, Vey, and Clendening. If we had drafted players with the profiles of these guys with our second and third round picks, people would love them. And they are still young! 22 and on the cusp of making an NHL roster. (In Vey's case, he did) That is exactly what you want out of a 2nd, 3rd, or especially a 4th round pick. He just fast forwarded. You say you want youth in the lineup, well thats how you get youth in the lineup. Otherwise you draft 18 year olds, and while you wait for them to develop, until the time they are 22 or so, you have to field veterans because you need a team.

Dude you are just all over the place. You seem to think unless we tank for a top draft pick, or win the stanley cup tomorrow, we are doing it wrong. Trust me, we are in a good spot right now. Playoff team with solid youth coming in. A number of which should be ready within a year or two. Don't make me rattle off the names again...

McCann, Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Vey, Baertschi Clendening, Cassels, Pedan, Hutton, Virtanen, Jensen, etc. All these YOUNG guys could be pushing for roster spots within the next year or 2. Having them produce, plus the Sedins is what would make this team a true contender.

[BanTSN]

Getzlaf, Perry and Kesler are teeing of with the Sedins tomorrow at 9am

Beaten by the Hawks, who just happened to have pretty good prime-age players themselves.

[BanTSN]

Oh boy…. so much wrong on one page...

What does that mean? We made the playoffs dude. That is developing a winning culture. Just because we didn't make conference finals doesn't mean we aren't developing a winning culture. This Franchise has been in the playoffs for years, then they got bounced and responded by immediately coming back in and giving a hard fought series against Calgary. That's a winning culture. Again, go ask Bo or Kenins about it. The fact that they played significant roles in driving a team into the playoffs and got 6 games of hard battling playoff experience. That's the winning culture Benning is talking about. That's the environment you want.

Nobody said the Sedins haven't played their best hockey already. They had 100 point seasons. But just because they can't put up 100 points, doesn't mean they can't put up 70. Which they did. Daniel put up 76, and as people have pointed out, only 8 other dudes were able to do that. You want to know their names? Jamie Benn, John Tavares, Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovechkin, Jakub Voracek, Nicklas Backstrom, Tyler Seguin, Jiri Hudler, DANIEL SEDIN. Last time I checked, 70 point players don't grow on trees. How can you call fielding a top 10 scorer a waste of time?

You want to know how to really make this team dangerous. You complement 70 point players, with solid youth scoring. In a year or 2, we could very well see a 60-70 point Sedin, combined with a 50-60 point Bo and maybe a 20 goal scorer Virtanen. You see what I'm saying? Just because the Sedins are 35 does not mean they aren't valuable. Have you ever thought about WHY this team is built around these two guys? BECAUSE IT'S HARD TO FIND GUYS THAT DO WHAT THEY DO. Real life isn't a video game where you can just go and sign all the people you want, draft perfectly, and steal every trade out there. You work with what you've got. The Sedin Twins playing for us is a positive as long as they produce. Why are you acting like they're not?

I'll tell you who understood the Vrbata and Miller signings. Everybody but you. Benning clearly said from day 1. He's not interested in the McDavid sweepstakes. That's the whole reason why Linden brought in a guy good at drafting/evaluating young talent. We can go make the playoffs and still draft well. Again, I don't think you quite understand. In real life, people have real families, and real jobs. Aquillinis said last year was unacceptable. Which is why they tossed Gillis or Tortorella. Gillis and Torts literally just got fired for having a horrible season. Benning knows his job is to make playoffs every year, and any year he doesn't he's in the hot seat, as well as WD.

• What's this everyone is confused thing? Kassian got benched and guess what, it worked. The dude was playing decent, until WD benched him a couple times, and it worked great. He came back into the lineup more effective than we've seen in a long time. He just got injured.
• Jensen got sent back down due to lack of work ethic etc. He was -12 on the season, playing for a dominant Utica team. At the beginning of the year, he was like -20 at points and hasn't provided that much offense for Utica. Why should he be playing in a Canucks uniform? And why would you want that? The dude needs to get his act together or he will get shredded in an 82 game season. You don't hand out spots, spots get earned. Bo and Kenins earned their spots, Jensen didn't. Simple as that.
• Markstrom was "weirded out" when Miller was brought in. And again, what was the result? He was the main driving force to Uticas dominance and posted one of the most impressive goaltending years of his career. Next year he's almost guaranteed a job, if not by us, then by someone else, and he will be going in with the most confidence he's ever had. It seriously worked out perfectly.
• Lack is NOT confused why there is trade talk circling him. I don't know why you have that impression. In every interview he says the same thing. He wants to stay here but he gets it. It's a business. He beat out Markstrom for the backup this year, that doesn't guarantee him a spot this year. Again, you have to earn it. Hell if Joaccim Eriksson comes into camp and plays better than Miller, give him the starting job.
• HAHAHAHAHAHAHA at the WD wasn't happy Bo was on the team. HE WAS THRILLED as any coach would be. You misunderstand his quote. He said at first when Benning and Trevor said "hey we got this 19 year old that can do some damage." he pretty much said, "I'll believe it when I see it." and didn't expect much. But after Bo came in, and again, EARNED a spot, it wasn't like WD was sour about it. He was ecstatic and shocked just like most people. Nobody is confused but you dude.

That is only EXACTLY what we are saying… We brought in 2 prospects to play in the starting lineup this year, not including Linden Vey and Adam Clendening. Detroit practices patience with their prospects. They let them sit until they are full and ready. Look at how long it took Gustav Nyquist to secure a job in the Detroit system. The dude got sent back tot he AHL twice. Detroit waits for their prospects to develop fully, until he point that they can produce like vets, then they insert them into the lineup. Detroit is the exact opposite of franchise that just throws the kids in and lets them play. We are starting a tradition of what Detroit does. Draft well, fully develop your kids, then insert them, and you see dividends.

Lol… no they didn't. They just lost. Just because a team loses, doesn't mean they "mailed it in." It's sports. Even if two teams play 110% one has to lose. We just lost. At least we made playoffs though. 14 other cities can't even say that.

You mean the skilled 22 year olds still with the Franchise? Baertschi, Vey, and Clendening. If we had drafted players with the profiles of these guys with our second and third round picks, people would love them. And they are still young! 22 and on the cusp of making an NHL roster. (In Vey's case, he did) That is exactly what you want out of a 2nd, 3rd, or especially a 4th round pick. He just fast forwarded. You say you want youth in the lineup, well thats how you get youth in the lineup. Otherwise you draft 18 year olds, and while you wait for them to develop, until the time they are 22 or so, you have to field veterans because you need a team.

Dude you are just all over the place. You seem to think unless we tank for a top draft pick, or win the stanley cup tomorrow, we are doing it wrong. Trust me, we are in a good spot right now. Playoff team with solid youth coming in. A number of which should be ready within a year or two. Don't make me rattle off the names again...

"We made the playoffs one year in a row!" Doesn't equal winning culture. Winning does, and we didn't win jack this season.

Literally everyone is saying the Sedins have played their best hockey already. I mean really? They're 35. Good for them to do what they're doing still because they're great players, but OF COURSE they're declining. I'm not saying trade them though. But re-tooling to win with them is a waste of time.

Detroit model: 16 prospects inserted. Our model: 2 prospects inserted. And they're 4th liners. Detroit model? That's in Detroit, not here.

The Aquillini's need to give their heads a shake if they think that making the playoffs with a sad team that just got hammered by a young team is the way to go. The fans went 'Really? We're going to do this again? Okay.' and didn't even bother to sell out playoff home games. Meanwhile, the team has directly been preaching change and youth, etc., but then bring in old farts to complement the team with playoff unreadiness and lack of gumption. Young players are trickling in, but at a snail's pace because the team continues to burn spots with lame trades and signings. Vrbata and Miller were playoff no-shows. Expensive ones, at that. As for WD's reaction on Bo, that was brought up in another thread. It seems ridiculous, but if you look at how difficult it is for young players to get a spot on this team, maybe it isn't.

Detroit PUTS PROSPECTS IN! We are probably going to have to trade a lot of ours before they get spots, and that's something Detroit rarely does. So why do people always say that we're using the Detroit model? We are so far away from all these models of franchises that actually win that it's not even funny saying that we're building a winning culture. I mean, a winning culture team would not have hired Torts in the first place, but at least he actually won a cup.

I'm off point a bit here due to all these rebuttals, but the main question was who actually believes that a retool works when the key core players are 35 years old? I don't think anyone honestly believes that. No GM would say that it would. It's silly. You could make the playoffs, and I guess we did, but winning a cup? No. We're not getting there with old men. I guess it just goes to show you that the goal is to just make the playoffs, not actually win.

[Mr.53]

"We made the playoffs one year in a row!" Doesn't equal winning culture. Winning does, and we didn't win jack this season.

Literally everyone is saying the Sedins have played their best hockey already. I mean really? They're 35. Good for them to do what they're doing still because they're great players, but OF COURSE they're declining. I'm not saying trade them though. But re-tooling to win with them is a waste of time.

Detroit model: 16 prospects inserted. Our model: 2 prospects inserted. And they're 4th liners. Detroit model? That's in Detroit, not here.

The Aquillini's need to give their heads a shake if they think that making the playoffs with a sad team that just got hammered by a young team is the way to go. The fans went 'Really? We're going to do this again? Okay.' and didn't even bother to sell out playoff home games. Meanwhile, the team has directly been preaching change and youth, etc., but then bring in old farts to complement the team with playoff unreadiness and lack of gumption. Young players are trickling in, but at a snail's pace because the team continues to burn spots with lame trades and signings. Vrbata and Miller were playoff no-shows. Expensive ones, at that. As for WD's reaction on Bo, that was brought up in another thread. It seems ridiculous, but if you look at how difficult it is for young players to get a spot on this team, maybe it isn't.

Detroit PUTS PROSPECTS IN! We are probably going to have to trade a lot of ours before they get spots, and that's something Detroit rarely does. So why do people always say that we're using the Detroit model? We are so far away from all these models of franchises that actually win that it's not even funny saying that we're building a winning culture. I mean, a winning culture team would not have hired Torts in the first place, but at least he actually won a cup.

I'm off point a bit here due to all these rebuttals, but the main question was who actually believes that a retool works when the key core players are 35 years old? I don't think anyone honestly believes that. No GM would say that it would. It's silly. You could make the playoffs, and I guess we did, but winning a cup? No. We're not getting there with old men. I guess it just goes to show you that the goal is to just make the playoffs, not actually win.

Your first sentence makes me take you less seriously.. Before we were just two guys debating. What's with the straw man? When did I ever say making the playoffs for 1 year means you have a winning culture? How about making playoffs the last 10 out of 11 seasons. Lol, we made playoffs 10 years in a row, fell off one year, and bounced right back. That is the definition of a winning culture. It doesn't matter what happens, next year they bounce back 100%. That's the culture you want. What more can you ask for. The Kings missed the playoffs this year, next year, they are going to bounce back hungry for a spot. That's the winning culture you want. That's Detroits culture, they have just been so successful they haven't gotten bounced yet. But they have first round exits left and right. You make it to the playoffs, and you take it from there.

How is retooling to win a waste of time. Yeah they're declining, but they're still massively productive. Ok so we don't have the back to back scoring champions that we once had. Instead we have 70 point scorers who one again, finished top 10 in the league. How is that a waste of time? And when you say time? What are you talking about? Were going into next season trying to make the playoffs just like everyone else whether we got the 70 point scorers or not… Might as well take em...

Again, dude stop strawmaning. This whole 16 to 2 thing really means nothing. Benning and Linden just got here. They're trying to develop their culture and provide youth. They added 2 prospects in a year. Next year they may add 2 more. And the year after that, who knows. Eventually you get the the Detroit model but it takes time. You don't insert 16 prospects and call it a day. No, you gradually insert them 1 or 2 at a time until they become the new core. Stop strawmaning dude. If you can't respond to what I said don't just pretend like I'm saying something else so you can refute it.

Vrbata and Miller were playoff no shows… Vrbata had 4 points in 6 games and Miller was injured. The dude just got back and was put in the toughest situation. Down in the series.

But again, I ask you. This team has been preaching getting younger. I've explained to you 3 times now exactly how they are doing that. We just added 2 rookies into the starting lineup in one year. Next year, Bo and Kenins will get a bigger role. Simultaniously, someone like Baertschi, or Virtanen may crack the roster. I'm not even counting Vey and Clendening who are 22 and on the cusp as well in that they are playing depth roles now. OVER TIME you develop your new core of young guys. We have an incredible prospect pool right now. The best we have ever seen. And you're somehow insinuating that we aren't committing to youth. What do you think Benning got these prospects for? He's just waiting for them to develop. You can't throw in prospects that aren't ready for the big dance for 2 reasons. One, you'll lose a lot. If you're fine with Tanking then that's the way for you, but last I checked, Trevor Linden, Jim Benning, and WIllie D all really seem to like it here. I don't think they have any desired to be unemployed. I think they would rather have exciting hockey in this city, make a possible run just like the other 16 teams good enough to make playoffs. And two, you're going to hurt the player. The NHL is a whole different beast from every other Hockey leave out there. If guys aren't ready, they can easily get injured.

Lastly, Detroit does not just shove prospects in. They wait and wait and wait until they are absolutely sure they can not only play on an NHL team, but make an impact. Before I spoke of Gustav Nyquist, but you can see it directly right now with Anthony Mantha. CHL player of the year, scoring 120 points in 57 games. (averaged a goal per game as well.) And what did they do. No they didn't just put him in the lineup because he wasn't ready. Spots are not given, they are EARNED. Anthony Mantha is as skilled of a prospect as they come, but he didn't earn a spot on the Roster so they sent him back down. That's exactly what we are doing. Letting our prospects develop fully before pushing them into the big dance.

And no we aren't going to win the cup with old men. But 70 point scorers, no matter what their age certainly do help the cause. I don't care if they're 50 years old. If you can finish top 10 in the league for scoring, I want you on my team. The world isn't that black and white. It's not either we build around the Sedins and we don't win or not. It's a mix. It's a team. Yeah, get some young legs in there. Again, like Bo, Kenins, Vey, and Clendening this season, but the fact that we can have young guys not the team does not mean anything for the Sedins. You're making it seem like it's either the Sedins or it's youth. You can do both. You can fit a couple young guys with a couple veterans on a roster.

Young guys currently on the roster. (25 and younger)

Zack Kassian 24

Ronalds Kenins 24

Linden Vey 23

Bo Horvat 20

Guys that will be pushing for roster spots within the next 2 years

Adam Clendening 22

Frank Corrado 22

Ben Hutton 22

Brendan Gaunce 21

Hunter Shinkaruk 20

Cole Cassels 20

Jared McCann 19

Jake Virtanen 19

That's 8 guys who can make serious roster pushed in the next 2 years or so. That's some quality youth. Trust me, they will get their chance. They just need to earn it first. That's all

[Jack Fig]

'Re-tool' is just a word-friendly version of 're-build'...you know, what is really going on here.

The Canucks don't have much chance of doing any serious winning in the next 3 years while the Sedins are here, so as much as I hate to say it, their presence here during that time is kind of irrelevant, IMO. What does matter is the progress of all the young guys coming in filling in around them, and subsequently replacing them. It's just that this process can't happen all in one year. To me, the Sedins are in their emeritus years already.

[Iggynucks]

Torts played them a lot 2 seasons ago and they broke.

The Sedins are in coasting to retirement mode.

Coasting into retirement? Lol. Daniel was 9th and Henrik was 13th in league scoring. I agree they're not what they used to be but come on. Hopefully they can keep it up for a couple more seasons and our determined Canadian youngsters will be ready to fill top line roles while the Sedins become secondary scoring. It's several of the other 30 something players that need to be moved out so our youth has a chance to make an impact.

[Honky Cat]

This is a good thread...Ban TSN is bringing up valid points,...After only a season of the Linden/Benning regime,I don't think anybody can really put a definitive answer on how this all plays out.

[48MPHSlapShot]

So what exactly is the OP saying the Canucks should do?

Tank? No thanks.

Nobody is expecting the Canucks to be a real threat for the cup in the next few years. But alternative to helping our young players develop by having them learn to play the NHL game in a winning environment is to blow everything up and tank. Once you go all in on a tank, you have an awful huge whole to dig your franchise out of (assuming your franchise survives). That's a far bigger risk than simply drafting smart and developing properly. Not to mention morally reprehensible (IMHO).

I'm fine with the route Benning and Co are taking. Drafting and developing young talent and introducing them into a stable and healthy environment where they have the opportunity to learn from our best veteran players before they eventually replace them.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

"We made the playoffs one year in a row!" Doesn't equal winning culture. Winning does, and we didn't win jack this season.

You are truly clueless if you don't think what we accomplished was winning. Canucks played each and every game this season to what? WIN. Canucks were in a tight playoff race and the only way we would make it was by? winning.

Look at the flames this year. No team had a better reasoning to sit back and go for the Mcdavid sweepstakes. What Hartley do?He played every game to win, no matter what the odds were against them.

Going for the high sweepstakes like the oiler and sabres did, is NOT a winning environment.

Do you see the difference in culture between the flames and the oilers. Guess what flames played 5 more games than the canucks this year. One teams (oilers) played for the draft, the other team (flames) played to win, to bring their prospects up in a winning environment and oilers got to watch their southern provincial rivals prospects fly past them in terms of development.

Bo Horvat learnt more in this one season about winning and a strong culture identity than Hall has in his last 5 seasons.

[BMorrison 7]

Ban tsn is 100% right!!

I'm glad people see it my way, we need a rebuild not some season ticket pleasing retool.

[Derp...]

There's a couple main issues with a rebuild on the fly.

Firstly humans by nature are flightless, similar to Penguins, so for us to be flying at all requires a lot of work.

Secondly rebuilding while flying are typically seen as desperation scenes in movies where a flying object is in peril and must be repaired to avoid crashing. While this is an analogy of sorts for a professional hockey franchise, I do believe it's safer to land the machine and make repairs there first. Whether this constitutes a change in philosophy is yet to be scene, but one things for sure... Penguins only live in the South Pole, and I've heard everything there works backwards.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Ban tsn is 100% right!!

I'm glad people see it my way, we need a rebuild not some season ticket pleasing retool.

Do you realize what a rebuild entials? I don't think you do. People just seem to assume, you have one or two bad seasons pick up a couple of top picks, they turn out to be the next Toews and Crosby's and then bam you are instant cup contenders, making it to the conference finals every year.

Sorry doesn't work out that way. Rebuilding relies on so much luck. Not only do you have to luck out and get the right spot (2nd and 3rd often become better players than the 1st overall), you also have to luck out and rebuild in the correct years.

In 2006 3rd overall gets you Jonathan Toews

In 2007 3rd overall gets you Kyle Turris.

One is the greatest captain since Sakic and Yzerman, the other (yes a good player) isn't even a first line center on most teams. Heck hawks understand this the better than most, their 3rd overall two years prior to that Toews pick, ended up being Cam Barker.

[Honky Cat]

So what exactly is the OP saying the Canucks should do?

Tank? No thanks.

Nobody is expecting the Canucks to be a real threat for the cup in the next few years. But alternative to helping our young players develop by having them learn to play the NHL game in a winning environment is to blow everything up and tank. Once you go all in on a tank, you have an awful huge whole to dig your franchise out of (assuming your franchise survives). That's a far bigger risk than simply drafting smart and developing properly. Not to mention morally reprehensible (IMHO).

I'm fine with the route Benning and Co are taking. Drafting and developing young talent and introducing them into a stable and healthy environment where they have the opportunity to learn from our best veteran players before they eventually replace them.

The OP is not bringing up any solutions....he has good points...but no solutions.

[Canuck Surfer]

Draft Lottery and drafting in general is a crap shoot. You can't guarantee your self the 1st overall and you can't guarentee that the player your going to get (even in the top 5) is going to be winning type impact player, so i'd rather take our chances at going the Minnesota wild route. Build through signing players.

We have over 14 million in cap space being free'd up each year until the twins are gone so lets go after

2016 Milan Lucic

2017 Ryan Johansen

2018 Evander Kane

Think that is unrealistic, well so is expecting to get the next Toews

What to talk about retooling though. In 3 years just think

Baertschi Horvat Virtanen

Sedin Sedin Kassian

Shinkaruk McCann Hansen

Gaunce Cassels Kennins

9/12 players are first round picks. 6 of them are picked in the top 15.

This!