Teen Charged With Encouraging Boyfriend to Kill Himself

[Gurn]

"Suicide is a mental disorder/illness. The person attempting the act is not in a rational state of mind and quite often cannot be rationalized. Prior attempts also increase the risk of a recurrence. "

Not always, sometimes it can be a person with a terminal, painful illness just saying I've had enough.

[TheFirstLine]

Why?

If they wanted to die and you stopped them, I don't see how a good friend would do that.

Edit: Oh also she did try and tell him not to, in the end, he made his decision and she was just being supportive. I don't see how this is a bad thing, nor do I follow the stigma attached to letting someone who wants to die, just die.

Guess if a close family member or friend of yours wanted to commit suicide, I'm sure you would sit right by their side and encourage it since you're such a "good" friend.

[Mr. Ambien]

Guess if a close family member or friend of yours wanted to commit suicide, I'm sure you would sit right by their side and encourage it since you're such a "good" friend.

Not that I'd know anything about this, right? (was waiting for someone to say something akin to this)

I'm a father too and I don't share your sense of humour.

Just because we personally don't like things doesn't mean we can't joke about them.

My father committed suicide yet I wouldn't suggest people not joke about suicide (in general) just because I both find suicide reprehensible and have a personal agonizing experience with it. Likewise, my youngest sister died from complications of beating cancers (one being a 20 year battle beating leukemia), yet I wouldn't suggest people not joke about cancer. I don't see what would be accomplished by playing the "I'm offended, therefore you can't joke about that.." card.

Humour can be a great coping mechanism. And of course it's simply weird to be up tight.

Damn, man. I'm sorry to hear all that happened.

I think most of us have dealt with depression on various levels.

I went through a near suicidal phase after my dad killed himself. I was but a kid so naturally I blamed myself. One of my sister, who had been through bone marrow transplants, having leukemia and being even younger than myself, felt she was an added burden causing him to do that.

Let's just say that if someone is committed to killing themselves, the best thing to do is support them. Someone with just a "mental illness" is going to cry out for attention. Others are going to actually attempt, like we have here. Same with my father, he attempted twice before he finally succeeded. The "help" that was coerced onto him wasn't useful whatsoever. So.. then what, you live for the sake of other people? That's a pretty shoddy premise.

There's a lot of stigma about suicide, that's why people wind up doing stupid things like jumping from buildings or bridges or gassing themselves in their vehicle rather than a slightly less destructive way.

[SaintPatrick33]

My question is what are the real factors that drive people to suicide? This world has seemed to create many lost souls where quite a few people feel distant from the so called "real world", a world where all you see is pain and continue to feel pain?

Lets get a good discussion going on what you think the causal factors are, since at least two of you have experienced this event.

[thejazz97]

My question is what are the real factors that drive people to suicide? This world has seemed to create many lost souls where quite a few people feel distant from the so called "real world", a world where all you see is pain and continue to feel pain?

Lets get a good discussion going on what you think the causal factors are, since at least two of you have experienced this event.

Lack of identity, low self-worth, lack of a known purpose. There's probably more.

[Baggins]

If there really is such a thing as free speech this will easily be dismissed.

Uttering a threat is a crime. Slander or defamation of character will get you sued. Of course there's freedom of speech. It doesn't mean it comes without consequences.

[Mr. Ambien]

Uttering a threat is a crime. Slander or defamation of character will get you sued. Of course there's freedom of speech. It doesn't mean it comes without consequences.

Well, this has everything to do with slander, defamation, and wherever you're going with the non sequitur.

My question is what are the real factors that drive people to suicide? This world has seemed to create many lost souls where quite a few people feel distant from the so called "real world", a world where all you see is pain and continue to feel pain?

Lets get a good discussion going on what you think the causal factors are, since at least two of you have experienced this event.

Real factors = anything..

Whatever is going on in their life, genetics, a simple chemical imbalance in one's brain.

I'm not able to simplify every suicide in the way that would fit the narrative of a Dr. Phil show, but sufficed to say, in hindsight, it was far better for my dad to do what he did. It would be nonsense for people to say that his desire to end his life was a mental illness. At some point, people simply make decisions that don't agree with our principles. The perception of what is normal and what is not is often rather skewed.

[riffraff]

Why?

If they wanted to die and you stopped them, I don't see how a good friend would do that.

Edit: Oh also she did try and tell him not to, in the end, he made his decision and she was just being supportive. I don't see how this is a bad thing, nor do I follow the stigma attached to letting someone who wants to die, just die.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this good sir.

[Bocivus]

I had a buddy that took his own life at work in July of 2011. To this day I do no know the exact reasons. He was more of an introvert and kept his personal feelings to himself so there were no clues to be seen, at least not by me. I looked back real hard afterwards as I felt some guilt in maybe me not noticing a sign so I could ask him if he was ok. I came up with nothing. Maybe he would have changed his mind if he wanted help, maybe not. I lean toward not as he did it in a way that would not allow that cushion for attention or a way that would maybe fail to achieve the goal. He came in to work as I got off, seemed to be perfectly himself and bang, I wake up about 6 hours later, he's gone.

That being said, I believe his mind was set and probably couldn't be persuaded even if I was able to talk to him. And from some of the posts in here I can agree to some extent that if it's their choice, it's their choice; their body, their life to do what they please. It's sad and very hard to accept though being as he left a lot of people that cared for him behind.

[-DLC-]

Why?

If they wanted to die and you stopped them, I don't see how a good friend would do that.

Edit: Oh also she did try and tell him not to, in the end, he made his decision and she was just being supportive. I don't see how this is a bad thing, nor do I follow the stigma attached to letting someone who wants to die, just die.

Because generally suicidal people have issues that can often be worked through.

So encouraging them to end things vs get help for them is shortchanging them. They can't see the light at the end of the tunnel...but it's there. Conditions are treatable but now that option's ruled out.

People who commit suicide often don't "want to die", they want to stop hurting. And that's possible...so a good friend would try to seek out help for/with them.

[Ghostsof1915]

[Mikey2Dope]

If there really is such a thing as free speech this will easily be dismissed.

I think this is where a lot of people get confused. Freedom of speech means you have the right to say most anything you want to say without being penalized by the government (with certain restrictions).

Freedom of speech isn't some get out of jail free card that allows you to say whatever you want whenever you please. "Freedom of speech, not freedom from consequences."

[Mustapha]

I'm torn on this issue.

The girl shouldn't be charged, albeit for the wrong reason.

Had the genders been switched, the increased weight of the social justice mob and feminist ideologues would have forced the hand of so-called'justice'

However the optics of a woman encouraging a man to give up on his life don't fit the progressive narrative (remember, the 'fairer' sex are actually superior in their eyes, not merely equal) so the criticism is heavily tempered.

All that aside, I would still advocate that encouraging someone to kill themselves is not a criminal act. In order to prove that what this girl did was in fact criminal, one would have to establish that the 'victim' did not have the mental capacity to freely choose to associate with her or take her advice. In the end, he was the one who decided to take his own life.

The Power of suggestion is used every day. It's why advertising exists. However, if you can choose what actions to take or products to buy, you bear the consequences. McDonalds didn't make you fat, you did by choosing to eat there. Dumaurier didn't give you lung cancer, your choice to smoke them most likely did.

If you are in a relationship with a sociopath, it's up to you to deal with it or move on.

[73 Percent]

Reminds me of a Supernatural episode. Instead of being charged for encouragement to suicide Blood Mary was trying to kill her.

On the real side. Damn 18? Buddy had so much ahead.

On another side note her forehead is bigger than her face.

off topic. I like you based on the fact that you watch supernatural.

Carry on... (my wayward son)

[elvis15]

Free speech doesn't mean you can say anything an everything. You will get rekt for saying many things.

But with that said this stuff is normal. A lot of people do this. Even I have done this to multiple people. It is often because people like to say the will kill themselves but only to get attention. So it isnt uncommon for some people to say go ahead and do it (under the impression the person is just being a b*tch).

What you're talking about and what happened here are different situations though - not that I'd ever suggest saying, "fine then, do it," to anyone ever mentioning suicide. Clearly it's not something you should be saying to someone who has a history of attempting suicide and battles depression.

She had to know this history and what would happen if she persisted enough when he was in a vulnerable state. All it would have likely taken from her is support and trying to get him help - particularly considering he was at a point where he was scared and trying to back out and yet she continued to push - and he wouldn't have done it.

The only thing I can even think of here that would work in her favour is if this was a version of assisted suicide which we see for people struggling with pain and loss of quality of life from disease, injury, etc. It doesn't seem like that was the case for him, more that he was just struggling with depression, so there was a much greater chance that any number of treatments, therapy or other things could have helped him.

Well, she's already got text messages of trying to talk him out of it, him saying basically "no, my decision is final", then supporting him. If that isn't protected by free speech, nothing is. This isn't even a borderline case of her, say, bullying someone to suicide who otherwise wouldn't. He was going to do it.

The guy also already attempted suicide.. at some point one has to realize when a person wants to take their life and just support them, even if it personally isn't what the person not killing themselves wants.

And yet there was clearly a point where he seemed to want to back out, but she continued to push him. That's not being supportive of a decision, that's pushing him to follow through. I'll say it again: there's a difference between supporting and encouraging.

She handled it poorly in the least, and may have been malicious at worst. If she was malicious, I'd support some kind of action against her, but it's hard to encourage that she get jail time over this unless it's beyond a shadow of a doubt.

You past experience with suicide doesn't mean every other person's experience is the same. You should always encourage life over death, even if you support a person for their decisions.

Because generally suicidal people have issues that can often be worked through.

So encouraging them to end things vs get help for them is shortchanging them. They can't see the light at the end of the tunnel...but it's there. Conditions are treatable but now that option's ruled out.

People who commit suicide often don't "want to die", they want to stop hurting. And that's possible...so a good friend would try to seek out help for/with them.

Absolutely this. It's hard for me to see people so closely connected with suicide who still don't see this reality. It doesn't always work that they can get past whatever they deal with, but every opportunity should be made to try. Just because past attempts to help have seemed futile, doesn't mean you should ever stop trying.

As someone who lives with a person who deals with depression, I know if I wanted to I could absolutely push someone to commit suicide if they were in a vulnerable state. In fact, there are times where positive support may be the only thing keeping them from doing it. As a result of being positive rather than negative and enabling, I've seen just how good a life a person can have once they've learned to manage their mental illness (and even while they were still struggling with it).

Barring knowing more about their lives first hand it's hard to support how she acted in any way.

[Tre Mac]

...And today is International Suicide Prevention Day.

[elvis15]

My question is what are the real factors that drive people to suicide? This world has seemed to create many lost souls where quite a few people feel distant from the so called "real world", a world where all you see is pain and continue to feel pain?

Lets get a good discussion going on what you think the causal factors are, since at least two of you have experienced this event.

Mental illness. I mean, it doesn't have to be some complex myriad of factors, even if people suffering from mental illness have had other traumas in their life that play into it and maybe drive them further than they would have.

Here's my wife's story for instance. Her father's side of the family has a history of mental illness, and growing up in Eastern Europe it was typically not diagnosed properly, let alone treated. Her father was no exception and was prone to irrational behaviour.

One day she came home to find a bunch of commotion and that her father had her mother locked in their apartment and was waving a knife around. She was young (12 at the time I think) but loved her mother and immediately ran through anyone trying to stop her and tried to get in the front door. Her mother had enough presence of mind to get in the way and slam the door on her.

Needless to say it didn't end well. A well known boxer from her area tried to help by breaking in shortly after, but her father killed him, then killed her mother, then killed himself. She deals with that to this day as a compounding factor on top of her diagnosed depression handed down from her father's genes and has tried to commit suicide. Thankfully though - even though she had already committed to ending her life - she phoned her brother and they intervened.

Certainly, this event from her childhood (as well as dealing with some abuse from a few relatives after her parents' death) has scarred her and made the problem worse, but she still has the underlying mental illness that is the root of any suicidal thoughts. The issues she's had to deal with all just enhance the feelings she already has as a result of the depression, and while she manages it very well now, she still has times where she can feel the old effects.

With it being mostly managed (never cured though, that's always important to mention) it doesn't stop her from reacting emotionally to those past events every so often (like on her mother's birthday), but being managed it does help keep her from thinking it's too much to bear and that she should take her own life as a result.

EDIT: of course this just focuses on people who don't fall into the Kevorkian/assisted suicide category. There are exceptions in all things. Someone (like the woman in Oregon earlier this year who had a terminal disease and choose to end her life, her way) in such a situation may come to a decision to end their life in a completely rational way. The opposite is true for people battling mental illness, where they often aren't rational and in fact give in to their emotional side without thinking of anything but the hurt they have right that moment.

[Mr. Ambien]

Because generally suicidal people have issues that can often be worked through.

So encouraging them to end things vs get help for them is shortchanging them. They can't see the light at the end of the tunnel...but it's there. Conditions are treatable but now that option's ruled out.

People who commit suicide often don't "want to die", they want to stop hurting. And that's possible...so a good friend would try to seek out help for/with them.

People who commit suicide don't want to die.. lol. That's a good one.

[Seifer86]

People who commit suicide don't want to die.. lol. That's a good one.

So supporting a friend committing suicide gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling all over cause it makes you a "true" friend. Please.

If a person really wants to die, they'll find a way, despite their friends trying to help them. But that doesn't mean that you just say "f*ck it, I support you in your suicide". You know how important life is because YOU aren't attempting to kill yourself. You owe it to the person you call friend to try and change their mind until the very last possible minute. Saying you support suicide in your friends because "real friends support each other" is a weak excuse and a lousy cover up for the emotional pain you suffered from your family member killing himself.

[Cerridwen]

People who commit suicide don't want to die.. lol. That's a good one.

Too bad you missed the word 'often' that preceded that statement and you've taken the comment out of context.. And if it was a deliberate 'miss' (as so very often happens when you choose to comment), your response just comes off as typical trolling Ambien... should anyone still be surprised?

Edit: This girl has serious issues...... goading someone you purport to love into committing suicide is sick. She deserves to have to pay the consequences of her actions.